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stevesphotoart

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Well, as perfect as the M-system is or can be!

This said, in many comparisons I find that the files are better than the outcome from a D800E, and match the results of a Leica S2. Only in b&w, of course.

So the concept offers you outstanding resolution and dynamic range in a relatively small b&w rangefinder camera, and may substitute b&w film if you want to. And not only one b&w film, but all from 200 to 3600 ISO and more. So if you are in b&w, and have enough money to spend on that, don't hesitate.

Build quality is outstanding, a piece of art. Forget the rear screen, which is outdated, but who cares? With film you cannot check your pictures either.

Works also very well with old lenses and cheaper (haha) lenses as the Summarit's. This said you may build up a decent b&w camera with only the body and some ancient used lenses.

As you have high ISO at hand, you may prefer lenses with 2,8 or even smaller apertures.

Another point to mention is that for getting all you expect from this camera, some knowledge in postprocessing is needed. This makes another part of the fun working with this camera, it is also challenging. Very rewarding.
 
Steve,

There are about 3 threads on the M-240 and the B & W issue. There is a B & W mode in the menu. Are you shooting in that mode or the color mode then converting to B & W. If it is the latter, which conversion PP are you using?

Wayne
 
porrsha said:
porrsha wrote:

Steve,

There are about 3 threads on the M-240 and the B & W issue. There is a B & W mode in the menu. Are you shooting in that mode or the color mode then converting to B & W. If it is the latter, which conversion PP are you using?

Wayne
Click to expand...
The M Monochrom has no color mode.
 
Hello

as someone else stated already, the monochrom (=MM) has no color, as it is no M9 or M240.

Nevertheless, as you ask, I make b&w conversions with all cameras I have, and I also do some postprocessing with the MM. This said, I always shoot RAW and process the files via LR. For this I mostly use custom presets, that I finetune for each image depending on my taste. There are a lot of fine presets available for b&w conversions. For me it is the ice on the cake to make a decent picture really look as I want it to look.

The idea to shoot jpg b&w right out of the camera is a bit simplistic. This is as one would use a analog camera as, let's say, a MP or M3, and then use only one sort of film.

But to come back to the MM, of course you get some nice b&w pictures out of the camera, but some post-processing is helpful as well: Taking away default sharpening to avoid artefacts, adding contrast, testing grain (sometimes it may be helpful to add some), lighting up or darkening some parts of the picture etc.

As we did with analoge photography

Let me add that only printing on a decent b&w printer make the process of photography complete. Only then you can judge the photo fully, and apreciate the work and effort you have put in.
 
dale thorn said:
dale thorn wrote:
dale thorn said:
porrsha wrote:

Steve,

There are about 3 threads on the M-240 and the B & W issue. There is a B & W mode in the menu. Are you shooting in that mode or the color mode then converting to B & W. If it is the latter, which conversion PP are you using?

Wayne
Click to expand...
The M Monochrom has no color mode.
Click to expand...

Dale,

It would be helpful if I could read I suppose. I have been so focused on the M-240 BW issue. My apologies.

Wayne
 
porrsha said:
porrsha wrote:
porrsha said:
dale thorn wrote:
porrsha said:
porrsha wrote:

Steve,

There are about 3 threads on the M-240 and the B & W issue. There is a B & W mode in the menu. Are you shooting in that mode or the color mode then converting to B & W. If it is the latter, which conversion PP are you using?

Wayne
Click to expand...
The M Monochrom has no color mode.
Click to expand...
Dale,

It would be helpful if I could read I suppose. I have been so focused on the M-240 BW issue. My apologies.

Wayne
Click to expand...
No need to apologize - actually the MM does use the color gamut so there is relevance in how to represent that in black and white. There's a simple method of toning of course, but it goes well beyond that for expert users (of which I'm not).
 
dale thorn said:
dale thorn wrote:
dale thorn said:
porrsha wrote:
dale thorn said:
dale thorn wrote:
dale thorn said:
porrsha wrote:

Steve,

There are about 3 threads on the M-240 and the B & W issue. There is a B & W mode in the menu. Are you shooting in that mode or the color mode then converting to B & W. If it is the latter, which conversion PP are you using?

Wayne
Click to expand...
The M Monochrom has no color mode.
Click to expand...
Dale,

It would be helpful if I could read I suppose. I have been so focused on the M-240 BW issue. My apologies.

Wayne
Click to expand...
No need to apologize - actually the MM does use the color gamut so there is relevance in how to represent that in black and white. There's a simple method of toning of course, but it goes well beyond that for expert users (of which I'm not).
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on that? What does the "MM use the color gamut" mean?
 
I am not so sure about the studio and low light but I use my leica for everything else.
 
The MM is sensitive to color in the sense of using "contrast filters" just as with film. Otherwise, I'm not sure what he meant?
 
boarderphreak said:
boarderphreak wrote:

The MM is sensitive to color in the sense of using "contrast filters" just as with film. Otherwise, I'm not sure what he meant?

-
Click to expand...
Well, my understanding is that the MM just records the intensity of light. Of course, if one uses filters and changes that intensity before it hits the sensor, then will affect what is recorded. But, I can see no way that the MM records any other color information.

Now, when an image from the MM is in Lightroom (LR), I can see that it is represented with the same intensity value in each of the 3 color channels (RGB). But, I thought this is just an internal representation in LR and meant nothing more... I would be interested to understand if there is anything else going on.

Best, D
 
Daedalus2000 said:
Daedalus2000 wrote:

Can you elaborate on that? What does the "MM use the color gamut" mean?
Click to expand...
As I said, I'm not the expert. But the images taken by the Monochrom are multi-layer, RGB I suppose.
 
Daedalus2000 said:
Daedalus2000 wrote:
Daedalus2000 said:
boarderphreak wrote:

The MM is sensitive to color in the sense of using "contrast filters" just as with film. Otherwise, I'm not sure what he meant?

-
Click to expand...
Well, my understanding is that the MM just records the intensity of light. Of course, if one uses filters and changes that intensity before it hits the sensor, then will affect what is recorded. But, I can see no way that the MM records any other color information.

Now, when an image from the MM is in Lightroom (LR), I can see that it is represented with the same intensity value in each of the 3 color channels (RGB). But, I thought this is just an internal representation in LR and meant nothing more... I would be interested to understand if there is anything else going on.

Best, D
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I want to delve into this for lack of time, but in some color editors I've seen Luminance and Saturation etc. info are stored in separate layers, or interpreted that way? I recall someone on Luminous Landscape saying it's best to try sharpening just the Luminance layer rather than all three, at least in some cases. I don't see any reason the MM would be any different, but I really don't know.
 
RaajS said:
RaajS wrote:
RaajS said:
dale thorn wrote

As I said, I'm not the expert. But the images taken by the Monochrom are multi-layer, RGB I suppose.
Click to expand...
Really? So what did your original assertion mean?

"Multi-later, RGB", "Color Gamut" - what do you mean by all this?

cheers,

-raaj
Click to expand...
 
Reads more like an opinion borne from a lack of direct experience.

I love my Minochrom, but this would not convince me to buy one.

MMs are not sensitive to color, only luminance.

Michael
 
RaajS said:
RaajS wrote:

I am going to channel Misha, though respectfully, and strongly suggest that you buy a book on the basics of digital imaging.
Click to expand...
to channel respectfully, particularly for Pedan

the MM is such a unique release that I am surprised at its commercial success

Leica engineering long embraced thinking out of the box & thrives with niche appeal

I doesn't employ a Bayer filter which is its main advantage

very much in the Leica ethos

Less is more
 
The images from the M Monochrom are represented with a single layer; but the JPEG replicates the grey scale into RGB planes more for software compatibility with JPEG display software. You can easily save the image in 8-bit JPEG using Photoshop "Mode" and Save-As. The same thing applies to the .BMP files that I used for my 20-year old Monochrome Kodak. Converting the M Monochrom DNG file to a single-layer BMP is trivial.

The CCD has a filter in it that absorbs IR and has a visible absorption curve to come closer to mimicking film sensitivity rather than silicon.
 
Last edited:
BSweeney said:
BSweeney wrote:

The images from the M Monochrom are represented with a single layer; but the JPEG replicates the grey scale into RGB planes more for software compatibility with JPEG display software. You can easily save the image in 8-bit JPEG using Photoshop "Mode" and Save-As. The same thing applies to the .BMP files that I used for my 20-year old Monochrome Kodak. Converting the M Monochrom DNG file to a single-layer BMP is trivial.

The CCD has a filter in it that absorbs IR and has a visible absorption curve to come closer to mimicking film sensitivity rather than silicon.
Click to expand...
I knew that. I can simply change the MM image to 'Monochrome' in my 15 year old copy of Paint Shop Pro, and convert it back to multi-layer again an infinite number of times without losing anything.

Digital recordings have followed that principle ever since we started ripping CDs circa 1998. Copy the track a thousand times, do a CRC, there you are.

I think there are a few people here who learned a few buzzwords in their Lightroom class etc., and they just love to find someone they think knows less than them, or (gasp!) is fundamentally ignorant. I'd suggest to those people that they go find someone to *help* rather than lecture to.

I've found the same kinds of people in software dev over the years - they learn the buzzwords, dink around with some code, and now they're experts.
 
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