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Does a99 show a blackout during exposure?

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Thomas Karlmann

Thomas Karlmann

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I'm sure any a99 user can verify this, but I'm struggling here. A YT a99 Review from B&H stated that there was no VF blackout, while another a99 review from a thin Chinese guy showed that there was a VF blackout -- and that the blackout was of longer duration than a DSLR, like the D600. Who is right? Thanks.
 
Solution
Dsnoir
The view finder does black out, and this is dependant on the shutter speed, at 'normal' shooting speed say 1/100 upwards the screen goes black for just a moment, at extended shutter speeds the screen is black in direct relationship to the speed set ie shutter speed 0.4'' screen black 0.4'' etc. This is so inferior to the Canon fixed mirror system used by the EOS RT and the EOS 1n RS on both of these cameras the image remained visible in real time in the viewfinder, making panning at 10 fps, easy, but that was 18 years ago.
The view finder does black out, and this is dependant on the shutter speed, at 'normal' shooting speed say 1/100 upwards the screen goes black for just a moment, at extended shutter speeds the screen is black in direct relationship to the speed set ie shutter speed 0.4'' screen black 0.4'' etc. This is so inferior to the Canon fixed mirror system used by the EOS RT and the EOS 1n RS on both of these cameras the image remained visible in real time in the viewfinder, making panning at 10 fps, easy, but that was 18 years ago.
 
Solution
Dsnoir said:
Dsnoir wrote:

The view finder does black out, and this is dependant on the shutter speed, at 'normal' shooting speed say 1/100 upwards the screen goes black for just a moment, at extended shutter speeds the screen is black in direct relationship to the speed set ie shutter speed 0.4'' screen black 0.4'' etc. This is so inferior to the Canon fixed mirror system used by the EOS RT and the EOS 1n RS on both of these cameras the image remained visible in real time in the viewfinder, making panning at 10 fps, easy, but that was 18 years ago.
Click to expand...
18 years ago - and with a significant design difference: Their OVF was not fed by the imaging devise, which is the case for the Sony SLTs. These twoCanon pellicle mirror SLRs were and are in fact superior to any (D)SLR by any maker:
  • All OVF (D)SLRs loose optical feed into the OVF when the main mirror flips up
  • All SLTs and DSLRs in main sensor life view mode loose life electrical feed for their EVF / LCD when the still image is captured from the main sensor
How long these blackouts are during fast shutter speeds depends on the specific model.

Cheers,
Ralf
www.ralfralph.smugmug.com
 
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I always shoot w/both eyes open, does anyone else? It could be because race cars a very close to my position on the track. So really don't think about. I'm getting use to the A99 and finally grab it rather than the A900. I feel like I'm doing some injustice to the A900.LOL
 
jmknights said:
jmknights wrote:

I always shoot w/both eyes open, does anyone else? It could be because race cars a very close to my position on the track. So really don't think about. I'm getting use to the A99 and finally grab it rather than the A900. I feel like I'm doing some injustice to the A900.LOL
Click to expand...
 
I think the issue isn't solved yet - but I feel that Sony must be working on it. One of the workarounds I've seen is using a red dot finder, and I think that posters on this site have demonstrated an exceptional number of keepers using it (and of course you could do that with an OVF). Its use might even be better for action than an OVF. Then again, there are posters that show fantastic action shots using the EVF alone, so methinks it's an issue of technique and practice.
 
Ralf B said:
Ralf B wrote:
Ralf B said:
Dsnoir wrote:

The view finder does black out, and this is dependant on the shutter speed, at 'normal' shooting speed say 1/100 upwards the screen goes black for just a moment, at extended shutter speeds the screen is black in direct relationship to the speed set ie shutter speed 0.4'' screen black 0.4'' etc. This is so inferior to the Canon fixed mirror system used by the EOS RT and the EOS 1n RS on both of these cameras the image remained visible in real time in the viewfinder, making panning at 10 fps, easy, but that was 18 years ago.
Click to expand...
18 years ago - and with a significant design difference: Their OVF was not fed by the imaging devise, which is the case for the Sony SLTs. These twoCanon pellicle mirror SLRs were and are in fact superior to any (D)SLR by any maker:
  • All OVF (D)SLRs loose optical feed into the OVF when the main mirror flips up
  • All SLTs and DSLRs in main sensor life view mode loose life electrical feed for their EVF / LCD when the still image is captured from the main sensor
How long these blackouts are during fast shutter speeds depends on the specific model.

Cheers,
Ralf
www.ralfralph.smugmug.com
Click to expand...
I recall those Canon cameras being around. I think all you stated is true. With a film-based system though, their pellicle system had a lot less to do.

Let's all add a DING to B&H for putting out incorrect a99 information! I kinda thought that their YT vid was put out around or before the a99's intro; so perhaps they might have been reporting what Sony told them to report -- rather than reporting what the (perhaps prototype a99) camera actually did. If so, then this might bode well for future firmware upgrades! Or, it could just be intentional or unintentional poor reporting by David Becker or on the part of B&H that does these vids.

 
RichV said:
RichV wrote:

I think the issue isn't solved yet - but I feel that Sony must be working on it. One of the workarounds I've seen is using a red dot finder, and I think that posters on this site have demonstrated an exceptional number of keepers using it (and of course you could do that with an OVF). Its use might even be better for action than an OVF. Then again, there are posters that show fantastic action shots using the EVF alone, so methinks it's an issue of technique and practice.
Click to expand...
 
Thomas Karlmann said:
Thomas Karlmann wrote:

Let's all add a DING to B&H for putting out incorrect a99 information! I kinda thought that their YT vid was put out around or before the a99's intro; so perhaps they might have been reporting what Sony told them to report -- rather than reporting what the (perhaps prototype a99) camera actually did. If so, then this might bode well for future firmware upgrades! Or, it could just be intentional or unintentional poor reporting by David Becker or on the part of B&H that does these vids.

Click to expand...
That's Larry Becker. See how easy it is to make a mistake if nobody is checking your work? But Larry should have known better, as he is actually shown looking through the camera and pressing the shutter release.
 
Dsnoir said:
Dsnoir wrote:

The view finder does black out, and this is dependent on the shutter speed, at 'normal' shooting speed say 1/100 upwards the screen goes black for just a moment, at extended shutter speeds the screen is black in direct relationship to the speed set ie shutter speed 0.4'' screen black 0.4'' etc. This is so inferior to the Canon fixed mirror system used by the EOS RT and the EOS 1n RS on both of these cameras the image remained visible in real time in the viewfinder, making panning at 10 fps, easy, but that was 18 years ago.
Click to expand...
Yes, perhaps we forgot how? lol. Shame that blacking out though; I got all re-excited about the a99 when I watched this vid:


How can someone with a99-in-hand be so wrong about something that is so easy to see?

Oh, well, as I state below -- perhaps firmware can address this, but I suspect that a 'no blackout' 'feature' might cost some for more electronics -- like more channels or something out of the imaging system. What a shame Sony didn't do a better job there.

Now I'm on a warpath to try and uncover where and how I can get a PC-sync terminal out of the a99. Is there a PC-sync terminal under one of those flaps that NO REVIEW will show? I had similar problems with almost ALL Minolta SLRs back in the day (film) -- I had to use top models to get the PC-sync terminal (Maxxum 9 and Maxxum 7's as I recall). The Maxxum 9 was a great camera -- it is to the legacy of the Maxxum 9 that I keep looking for similar performance in a digital body -- from whoever (Sony now) that is pretending to keep up to that high standard. I didn't find it in the a900, and now I have concerns over the a99. This includes flash-sync speed. (1/300s on Maxx9; 1/500s on D70)! Can someone make a CAMERA instead of a video game? OK, that was harsh! I really LIKE the EVF.

I'm still in the market for the best new Camera for Pro-Wedding work. a99 might be a fizzle. Or what others??? D600 (oil spots on the sensor after 1000 shots -- not for a Wedding!), D800 (files too large -- uncertain if I can shoot it at lower rez and does that make sense?), D5MkIII (possibly -- however DXOMark is not thrilled by it in comparison to Nikon's FF's) O woe is me! (I have Nikon & Minolta pro lenses, but I'm going to go where I need to go -- even Canon if necessary.)

Any new pro cameras coming out soon? (1DX and D4 do not make economic sense for Wedding work -- also they are too heavy and too $$$) I've also been looking at M4/3 and other mirrorless attempts -- I like the new Panny GX7; but then there is that "Client Perception" issue for Pro Weddings...

--
Thom--
 
Last edited:
sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen wrote:
sybersitizen said:
Thomas Karlmann wrote:

Let's all add a DING to B&H for putting out incorrect a99 information! I kinda thought that their YT vid was put out around or before the a99's intro; so perhaps they might have been reporting what Sony told them to report -- rather than reporting what the (perhaps prototype a99) camera actually did. If so, then this might bode well for future firmware upgrades! Or, it could just be intentional or unintentional poor reporting by David Becker or on the part of B&H that does these vids.

Click to expand...
That's Larry Becker. See how easy it is to make a mistake if nobody is checking your work? But Larry should have known better, as he is actually shown looking through the camera and pressing the shutter release.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely correct -- I had the name right on my screen and I still got it wrong! Apologies to Mr. Becker.

--
Thom--
 
Last edited:
Thomas Karlmann said:
Thomas Karlmann wrote:

Now I'm on a warpath to try and uncover where and how I can get a PC-sync terminal out of the a99. Is there a PC-sync terminal under one of those flaps that NO REVIEW will show?
Click to expand...
Yes. It's illustrated and described in the user manual.
 
Ralf B said:
Ralf B wrote:
Ralf B said:
Dsnoir wrote:

The view finder does black out, and this is dependant on the shutter speed, at 'normal' shooting speed say 1/100 upwards the screen goes black for just a moment, at extended shutter speeds the screen is black in direct relationship to the speed set ie shutter speed 0.4'' screen black 0.4'' etc. This is so inferior to the Canon fixed mirror system used by the EOS RT and the EOS 1n RS on both of these cameras the image remained visible in real time in the viewfinder, making panning at 10 fps, easy, but that was 18 years ago.
Click to expand...
18 years ago - and with a significant design difference: Their OVF was not fed by the imaging devise, which is the case for the Sony SLTs. These twoCanon pellicle mirror SLRs were and are in fact superior to any (D)SLR by any maker:
  • All OVF (D)SLRs loose optical feed into the OVF when the main mirror flips up
  • All SLTs and DSLRs in main sensor life view mode loose life electrical feed for their EVF / LCD when the still image is captured from the main sensor
How long these blackouts are during fast shutter speeds depends on the specific model.

Cheers,
Ralf
www.ralfralph.smugmug.com
Click to expand...
How is the Mirrorless crowd doing regarding this issue?
 
sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen wrote:
sybersitizen said:
Thomas Karlmann wrote:

Now I'm on a warpath to try and uncover where and how I can get a PC-sync terminal out of the a99. Is there a PC-sync terminal under one of those flaps that NO REVIEW will show?
Click to expand...
Yes. It's illustrated and described in the user manual.
Click to expand...
Ahhh, yes, there it is -- right on page 21, item #2. I should have looked there before whining. I was up late, sorry.
 
As long as the two basic techs exist: 1) a mirror in the lightpath or 2) SLT with the main sensor feeding the EVF; I don't see how it may be possible not to have a blackout during exposure. The first case is well known and blackout time is in part obviously related to the exposure time (mirror is up during exposure) and in part to the mechanics of how much weight has to be moved / accelerated / damped. In the second case it's not the mirror but the sensor has be be switched over from the function of the viewing device to that of an image taking device with the required precision of the exposure time (EFC and second mechanical curtain or both mechanical). So the exposure process requires or switching off the sensor (EFC) or covering it (first curtain) the exposure occurs and is ended by the second curtain and then finally the sensor can be used agian as viewing device. The portion of the reflected light by the translucent mirror serves only for the focussing system. I for my part don't see how this can be changed via firmware. Perhaps a future double function sensor which partially works as viewing device and partially as image taking device would be a first step in the direction of uninterrupted view. However even then there couldn't be anymore a mechanical curtain system for the control of the exposure time because this still would interrupt the light. So really new hardware tech would be necessary. Or an independent viewing system - but how to achieve a view through the lens w/o a device which derives part of the light and at the same time wouldn't remove light from the main path (obstruct partially the path)? In the past there were the double lens viewing cams - not really a very practical option. Or rangefinder - equally with limited use and other quirks like paralax.

--
Cheers,
Michael Fritzen
 
Last edited:
The black out is just as long as the write time to the card is. So it can depend on files size, burst shooting and length of exposure. Under normal shooting conditions you won't notice it. Its has a much better refresh time than the a77.
 
BTW, I wasn't trying to be a know it all or argumentative, but I also had to find a work around w/my A99 when shooting racing photos. As mentioned race cars sometimes come off the track.
 
Michael Fritzen said:
Michael Fritzen wrote:

As long as the two basic techs exist: 1) a mirror in the lightpath or 2) SLT with the main sensor feeding the EVF; I don't see how it may be possible not to have a blackout during exposure. The first case is well known and blackout time is in part obviously related to the exposure time (mirror is up during exposure) and in part to the mechanics of how much weight has to be moved / accelerated / damped. In the second case it's not the mirror but the sensor has be be switched over from the function of the viewing device to that of an image taking device with the required precision of the exposure time (EFC and second mechanical curtain or both mechanical). So the exposure process requires or switching off the sensor (EFC) or covering it (first curtain) the exposure occurs and is ended by the second curtain and then finally the sensor can be used agian as viewing device. The portion of the reflected light by the translucent mirror serves only for the focussing system. I for my part don't see how this can be changed via firmware. Perhaps a future double function sensor which partially works as viewing device and partially as image taking device would be a first step in the direction of uninterrupted view. However even then there couldn't be anymore a mechanical curtain system for the control of the exposure time because this still would interrupt the light. So really new hardware tech would be necessary. Or an independent viewing system - but how to achieve a view through the lens w/o a device which derives part of the light and at the same time wouldn't remove light from the main path (obstruct partially the path)? In the past there were the double lens viewing cams - not really a very practical option. Or rangefinder - equally with limited use and other quirks like paralax.
Click to expand...
 
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