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X-e1 firmware request from unsharp cat - hope fuji listening

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justin_time

justin_time

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I came across a cat whilst walking the dog. It would not move from its spot on the pavement.

Unfortunately best shot has camera shake. I know I could set manual shutter speed but really think its time fuji fixed Auto-iso. I think a good implementation would be with Auto iso on to allow an option for the shutter speed dial to be the minimum shutter speed. Of course I'd also like the option to have the 1/effective focal length (with +/-3 stops offset) running in parallel)





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at 100%:



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Less expressive but sharp!
Less expressive but sharp!

Note: dog was on a lead, and did not get anywhere near the cat for fear of being clawed!
 
Feisty! Second one looks sharper. If you could have set a shutter speed limit, would you have had time to set it?
 
I would disagree with the idea that shutter speed dial be used as minimum shutter speed -- if I set the dial to something, i want that something to stick.

But I do agree they should implement minimum shutter speed, hopefully it is in the works since someone mentioned it present in X-M1 (any X-M1 owners care to confirm?)

Nice cat btw.
 
57LowRider said:
57LowRider wrote:

Feisty! Second one looks sharper. If you could have set a shutter speed limit, would you have had time to set it?
Click to expand...
Yes, cat was still for second one rather than hissing at the dog! The soft shot was actually the 5th in the sequence (sharp one was 6th & last as I thought I'd best leave cat in peace !). The shots I had been taking prior to this were sunsets, so I was happy with 1/50th sec or longer and I was not expecting any action shots. With min shutter speed was via dial, I am sure I would definitely had time to set the shutter speed higher. and I am kicking myself for not just dialing in 1/250th of a second anyway! Possibly setting on Q menu would be OK too.
 
Adrian Tung said:
Adrian Tung wrote:

I would disagree with the idea that shutter speed dial be used as minimum shutter speed -- if I set the dial to something, i want that something to stick.

But I do agree they should implement minimum shutter speed, hopefully it is in the works since someone mentioned it present in X-M1 (any X-M1 owners care to confirm?)

Nice cat btw.
Click to expand...
Adrian,

I would give the user the option whether Auto ISO Min speed could be set via shutter speed dial or not. of course if Auto ISO is off then shutter speed dial would always give fixed speed.



Just looked at X-M1 user manual and it only allows a fixed min shutter speed, mhiddenin menu system, which I think would be a step backwards.

Another improvement would be to allow a quick button press to switch between auto iso on & off, rather than scroll through 8 or more options as at present.
 
Have to agree with what you're talking about and this is my one and only "complaint" about the X-P1/X-E1 cameras.

Quick, candid snapshots are a risky proposition if you don't have time to check and adjust the shutter speed.

Auto ISO is a great convenience but can be a problem.

The Fuji image stabilized lenses would be a little better but a lens without image stabilization needs a higher shutter speed to work properly.

Only way to get it is either raise the ISO or increase the aperture and there's no time to do that when you're trying to get a quick shot.

Honestly speaking, when I'm outside carrying my camera and taking general snapshots , I usually just set my ISO at 400 if I'm going to have my aperture and shutter speed set at automatic.

ISO 400 will usually allow a reliable shutter speed in good light. Even ISO 800 will still give good results and always give a faster shutter speed than needed in good light.
 
I'm not sure I understand.

You had been shooting sunsets at a slower shutter speed. You then came across a cat and needed a faster shutter speed. If the camera had the minimum shutter speed option you seek, you then would have had to set it via a menu. As the camera stands , all you needed to do was set the shutter speed dial to 1/125th or 1/250th.

What I find puzzling is that some photographers (not you in particular) seem to have an aversion to the Shutter Speed dial. Perhaps they learned to shoot in A mode, and now want to control the shutter speed (via a "minimum") without actually setting the shutter speed.

As one who learned to shoot on Konica SLRs back in the 1970s -- all of which were S mode cameras -- I can't quite identify with the problem. Konica's argument in those days was that S mode was better precisely because it avoided the kind of camera shake issues displayed here. Shots were taken by changing the SS to one appropriate for the subject while watching the impact of the changes upon the aperture. If you wanted to open the aperture, you did it by increasing the shutter speed.

It would seem to me that those who have learned to shoot in A mode would do the opposite -- control the shutter speed by changing the aperture and watching the consequences. In a case like this cat photo you already had the lens wide open without reaching the SS you desired. So you flick the shutter speed dial to the SS you need and watch the ISO rise.

It all works pretty well, but it does require photographers to think more in terms of monitoring and controlling the shutter speed. Since I learned on a camera where you always set the shutter speed, this is natural. I don't buy Konica's marketing pitch from those days about S mode being superior, but it did tend to avoid this kind of problem. It's interesting to me how we all learn to control and watch certain things while letting others go on auto-pilot.

I basically think the minimum SS idea -- via menu -- is a good idea. But it would have taken more time in this case, since you had already been shooting at slower SSs, than just using the shutter speed dial.
 
I'd like to be able to set the minimum shutter speed for auto ISO on my XE1. I would leave it set at 250th sec to avoid motion blur. I could just shoot in manual mode and let auto ISO do its thing by setting the camera to 250th sec and f8 that would cover most most outside situation apart from direct sunlight which would overexpose.
 
bowportes said:
bowportes wrote:

I'm not sure I understand.

You had been shooting sunsets at a slower shutter speed. You then came across a cat and needed a faster shutter speed. If the camera had the minimum shutter speed option you seek, you then would have had to set it via a menu. As the camera stands , all you needed to do was set the shutter speed dial to 1/125th or 1/250th.

What I find puzzling is that some photographers (not you in particular) seem to have an aversion to the Shutter Speed dial. Perhaps they learned to shoot in A mode, and now want to control the shutter speed (via a "minimum") without actually setting the shutter speed.

As one who learned to shoot on Konica SLRs back in the 1970s -- all of which were S mode cameras -- I can't quite identify with the problem. Konica's argument in those days was that S mode was better precisely because it avoided the kind of camera shake issues displayed here. Shots were taken by changing the SS to one appropriate for the subject while watching the impact of the changes upon the aperture. If you wanted to open the aperture, you did it by increasing the shutter speed.

It would seem to me that those who have learned to shoot in A mode would do the opposite -- control the shutter speed by changing the aperture and watching the consequences. In a case like this cat photo you already had the lens wide open without reaching the SS you desired. So you flick the shutter speed dial to the SS you need and watch the ISO rise.

It all works pretty well, but it does require photographers to think more in terms of monitoring and controlling the shutter speed. Since I learned on a camera where you always set the shutter speed, this is natural. I don't buy Konica's marketing pitch from those days about S mode being superior, but it did tend to avoid this kind of problem. It's interesting to me how we all learn to control and watch certain things while letting others go on auto-pilot.

I basically think the minimum SS idea -- via menu -- is a good idea. But it would have taken more time in this case, since you had already been shooting at slower SSs, than just using the shutter speed dial.
Click to expand...
I agree 99.99% with what you're saying and that worked perfect with a film camera where there was no variable with ISO/ASA speed.

I suppose I'm grasping at straws here but I've found that for outdoor shots adjusting shutter speed only, will sometimes give you too high an ISO setting. Naturally, most of the time it won't make much difference but any of the auto settings (shutter priority, aperture priority) can confuse the camera and cause minor problems.

Anyway, you're probably right and a quick shutter speed adjustment would be the fastest way to prevent blur.
 
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The aperture setting makes an aesthetic choice, depth of field.

That leaves a tradeoff between shutter speed and ISO. Film cameras had no ISO choice; once you loaded the film, you had your ASA until you changed rolls or sheets.

Our problem is that the Fuji will select 1/30 and ISO 200 when we want 1/60 and will let ISO go to 400. Pentax's extension of the PASM mode approach has one solution. Fuji takes a different approach, which we like. But it does need something like a minimum shutter speed, perhaps in effect only when Aperture is on manual choice. The option can be on the ordinary menus; we should not need to vary the minimum often; it is a tool versus camera shake. (Beyond that, go full manual and master the craft of exposure.)
 
Stujomo said:
Stujomo wrote:

I'd like to be able to set the minimum shutter speed for auto ISO on my XE1. I would leave it set at 250th sec to avoid motion blur. I could just shoot in manual mode and let auto ISO do its thing by setting the camera to 250th sec and f8 that would cover most most outside situation apart from direct sunlight which would overexpose.
Click to expand...
 
Charles2 said:
Charles2 wrote:

The aperture setting makes an aesthetic choice, depth of field.

That leaves a tradeoff between shutter speed and ISO. Film cameras had no ISO choice; once you loaded the film, you had your ASA until you changed rolls or sheets.

Our problem is that the Fuji will select 1/30 and ISO 200 when we want 1/60 and will let ISO go to 400. Pentax's extension of the PASM mode approach has one solution. Fuji takes a different approach, which we like. But it does need something like a minimum shutter speed, perhaps in effect only when Aperture is on manual choice. The option can be on the ordinary menus; we should not need to vary the minimum often; it is a tool versus camera shake. (Beyond that, go full manual and master the craft of exposure.)
Click to expand...
And the shutter speed setting makes an aesthetic choice as well, amount of motion-blur. What is more, when SS is set to A, it's straightforward to control the A by varying the SS.

The OP said that he had been shooting at a slower shutter speed, which was perfectly acceptable for a more static subject. So he still would have had to implement the minimum SS through the menu to achieve the desired result for the cat shot. My suggestion was that it would have been easier to simply move the SS dial to 1/125th or so, letting the ISO rise accordingly.

If you never want to shoot slower than 1/125th, I guess you could set such a minimum, but many shots can be captured well at the 1/50th second he used for the cat; it was just that the cat could not be. In such a situation I don't see how a minimum SS via the menu would help much.
 
bowportes said:
bowportes wrote:
bowportes said:
Stujomo wrote:

I'd like to be able to set the minimum shutter speed for auto ISO on my XE1. I would leave it set at 250th sec to avoid motion blur. I could just shoot in manual mode and let auto ISO do its thing by setting the camera to 250th sec and f8 that would cover most most outside situation apart from direct sunlight which would overexpose.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
vkphoto said:
vkphoto wrote:

Actually I like both pictures a lot and don't care if the first one is not absolutely sharp.

Expression on cat's face and the pose are just amazing. Well done.
Click to expand...
 
justin_time said:
justin_time wrote:

I know I could set manual shutter speed but really think its time fuji fixed Auto-iso. I think a good implementation would be with Auto iso on to allow an option for the shutter speed dial to be the minimum shutter speed. Of course I'd also like the option to have the 1/effective focal length (with +/-3 stops offset) running in parallel)
Click to expand...
That won't solve your problem here, which is that you took a photo of a fast-moving subject at a shutter speed that is only just enough to allow for blur-free handheld shooting. Most easily fixed by manually setting the aperture and shutter speed after taking an initial reading via a half-press of the shutter.
 
justin_time said:
justin_time wrote:
I think a good implementation would be with Auto iso on to allow an option for the shutter speed dial to be the minimum shutter speed. Of course I'd also like the option to have the 1/effective focal length (with +/-3 stops offset) running in parallel)
Click to expand...
+1

That's the way I would also like to have it. I like the idea of using the shutter dial setting as a minimum speed when AutoISO is used.

Same with aperture; the set value could be used as the maximum aperture when AutoISO is used.
 
rlx said:
rlx wrote:
rlx said:
justin_time wrote:

I think a good implementation would be with Auto iso on to allow an option for the shutter speed dial to be the minimum shutter speed. Of course I'd also like the option to have the 1/effective focal length (with +/-3 stops offset) running in parallel)
Click to expand...
+1

That's the way I would also like to have it. I like the idea of using the shutter dial setting as a minimum speed when AutoISO is used.

Same with aperture; the set value could be used as the maximum aperture when AutoISO is used.
Click to expand...
Have you actually thought through this at all? The X series interface is designed around the concept that if one dial is set and the other is left in A, you're in either aperture or shutter priority, and if both are set, you're in manual. What is the point of then making it so that when AutoISO is enabled the dials are no longer set to a fixed value but one which can vary in either direction?

To make this function work, you'd need to keep a way of turning it on and off, so that you'd be able to make the manual mode work properly when you needed it to. So by this time you'd need to either dig into the menu or allocate one of the function buttons to enable it - no quicker than the present method of simply adjusting the ISO yourself to compensate, but compromising the basic design of the X-E1 in the process.
 
rlx said:
rlx wrote:
rlx said:
justin_time wrote:

I think a good implementation would be with Auto iso on to allow an option for the shutter speed dial to be the minimum shutter speed. Of course I'd also like the option to have the 1/effective focal length (with +/-3 stops offset) running in parallel)
Click to expand...
+1

That's the way I would also like to have it. I like the idea of using the shutter dial setting as a minimum speed when AutoISO is used.

Same with aperture; the set value could be used as the maximum aperture when AutoISO is used.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, this is a horrible idea. How would you then select a specific shutter speed when shooting in Auto ISO?

By this logic, the aperture setting (selected via the aperture dial) should be the maximum aperture, with aperture bouncing all over the place as long as it doesn't exceed the maximum.
 
bowportes said:
bowportes wrote:
bowportes said:
rlx wrote:
bowportes said:
justin_time wrote:

I think a good implementation would be with Auto iso on to allow an option for the shutter speed dial to be the minimum shutter speed. Of course I'd also like the option to have the 1/effective focal length (with +/-3 stops offset) running in parallel)
Click to expand...
+1

That's the way I would also like to have it. I like the idea of using the shutter dial setting as a minimum speed when AutoISO is used.

Same with aperture; the set value could be used as the maximum aperture when AutoISO is used.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, this is a horrible idea. How would you then select a specific shutter speed when shooting in Auto ISO?

By this logic, the aperture setting (selected via the aperture dial) should be the maximum aperture, with aperture bouncing all over the place as long as it doesn't exceed the maximum.
Click to expand...
In my original suggestion I did say that there should be a menu option to enable the user to select when the shutter speed dial gives a fixed speed or minimum speed when Auto iso is on.

Sure, there are circumstances when I would want a fixed shutter speed (slow panning shot, but for that I could go manual iso or into menu options to turn my suggested feature off.

Most people think a min shutter speed for Auto iso is a good idea.l What I have not seen is any suggestions on how it can be set quickly, to cope with the changing situation I saw.
Perhaps min shutter speed on the Q menu would be more to9 mosty people liking. Heck, as I shoot raw I hardly ever change most Q setting anyway.
 
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