Confused- Grey card, White card, pringles lid or just pray?

SYON

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Just when I thought I had this understood, I was researching "exposure" postings from the various forums & now I'm very confused.

My questions are:

1). When should one use a Grey Card & the proper way of setting the wb

2). When should one use a White Card & the proper way of setting the wb

3). When should one use a pringles lid & the proper way of setting the wb

4). Should a combination of either a Grey Card, White Card or pringles be used together? If so, what is the proper way of doing so?

The replys varied so much on the different forms it confused me & I want to make sure im doing things right.

Thanks in advance,

SYON

PS: im using an E-20
 
Use a Grey Card to set exposure

You camera's meter is designed to render the scene 18% grey, therefore, if you use an 18% grey card to take a reading of the light striking the grey card, your meter will render it 18% grey, which should render the whole scene properly.

Use a White Card to set White Balance

If you aim the camera at the white side of the card, and press the "Quick Reference White Balance" button, see page 15 of the manual, you camera will read the light temperature of the light falling on the White Card, it will then give you the option to select of or not. Be sure to set your white balance to the custom setting -0- .

Use a Pringles lid to keep your Pringles fresh :-)

--
Cheers,

Leo Howard
http://www.leohoward.com
 
Use a Grey Card to set exposure

Use a White Card to set White Balance
The only requirement for setting white balance is a neutral target. So a neutral grey card works just as well for setting white balance.

If you have neither white nor grey card handy, doing the custom WB by shooting (towards the lighted scene) through a "Pringles" lid can help achieve a reasonable setting.
Phil
 
Just when I thought I had this understood, I was researching
"exposure" postings from the various forums & now I'm very confused.

My questions are:

1). When should one use a Grey Card & the proper way of setting the wb

2). When should one use a White Card & the proper way of setting
the wb

3). When should one use a pringles lid & the proper way of setting
the wb

4). Should a combination of either a Grey Card, White Card or
pringles be used together? If so, what is the proper way of doing
so?

The replys varied so much on the different forms it confused me & I
want to make sure im doing things right.
I've been studying this a little lately, and I can give you some preliminary results.

I bought an Expodisc, which is the real (calibrated) version of the Pringles lid. I studied their literature closely, which literature is not very well written, and I think I have the basic concept of how they expect us to use it.

I went out with a notebook, my E20, the Expodisc, and an incident light meter. I checked the exposure readings with the meter, the Expodisc pointed back at the light source as an incident meter, and the camera's reflected light metering in center weighted averaging. The readings varied greatly for the same scene. For example, for one normal, sunlit scene, the incident meter wanted 1/500 at f8, the Expodisc as incident meter wanted 1/500 at f7.1, and the camera pointed at the scene wanted 1/500 at f3.6!

The camera's reflected light reading was almost always right, as judged by eye and the histogram afterwards. In general, it seems that the incident meter (all set to ISO 80) was one stop darker than the camera acting as incident meter with the Expodisc, and the camera's reflected reading was a stop brighter than that, and was more correct.

All of this was with normal front lighting. When you have side or backlit subjects, it gets a lot trickier, and it is impossible to avoid using some judgement about what results you want. I think this is where the cameras with electronic viewfinders rather than the optical would shine. They show exactly what results are being recorded. The E20 also has live preview, but it requires a hood, hopefully with magnifier, to be able to use it as an electronic viewfinder in daylight.

Be that as it may, the answer to your question is that pointing your camera at a grey card and taking a reflected light reading from it is equivalent to putting the Expodisc on it and using it as an incident meter. Not quite as accurate as using the actual subject to meter on.

As for white balance, you can WB on either a white or a grey card, or use something like the Expodisc or Pringles lid aimed toward the light source. They will give a very good WB reading, but so will Auto in daylight. Indoors, balance on a white (or neutral grey) object or do the same Expodisc trick as before. Should be exactly equivalent.

To summarize, the camera's reflected light meter is your best tool for exposure, but you should intelligently aim the center spot at the part of the image that you want to expose for. Maybe even check several areas of the image. Maybe even bracket or check histograms on playback. Digital's latitude is so narrow we must expose for what we want in the original image, because it is more difficult to fix it in post.

Gary Eickmeier
 
Thanks all,

All the replys are exactly what I though. Some of the replys on the other forums are way off & I just wanted to make sure.
Just when I thought I had this understood, I was researching
"exposure" postings from the various forums & now I'm very confused.

My questions are:

1). When should one use a Grey Card & the proper way of setting the wb

2). When should one use a White Card & the proper way of setting
the wb

3). When should one use a pringles lid & the proper way of setting
the wb

4). Should a combination of either a Grey Card, White Card or
pringles be used together? If so, what is the proper way of doing
so?

The replys varied so much on the different forms it confused me & I
want to make sure im doing things right.
I've been studying this a little lately, and I can give you some
preliminary results.

I bought an Expodisc, which is the real (calibrated) version of the
Pringles lid. I studied their literature closely, which literature
is not very well written, and I think I have the basic concept of
how they expect us to use it.

I went out with a notebook, my E20, the Expodisc, and an incident
light meter. I checked the exposure readings with the meter, the
Expodisc pointed back at the light source as an incident meter, and
the camera's reflected light metering in center weighted averaging.
The readings varied greatly for the same scene. For example, for
one normal, sunlit scene, the incident meter wanted 1/500 at f8,
the Expodisc as incident meter wanted 1/500 at f7.1, and the camera
pointed at the scene wanted 1/500 at f3.6!

The camera's reflected light reading was almost always right, as
judged by eye and the histogram afterwards. In general, it seems
that the incident meter (all set to ISO 80) was one stop darker
than the camera acting as incident meter with the Expodisc, and the
camera's reflected reading was a stop brighter than that, and was
more correct.

All of this was with normal front lighting. When you have side or
backlit subjects, it gets a lot trickier, and it is impossible to
avoid using some judgement about what results you want. I think
this is where the cameras with electronic viewfinders rather than
the optical would shine. They show exactly what results are being
recorded. The E20 also has live preview, but it requires a hood,
hopefully with magnifier, to be able to use it as an electronic
viewfinder in daylight.

Be that as it may, the answer to your question is that pointing
your camera at a grey card and taking a reflected light reading
from it is equivalent to putting the Expodisc on it and using it as
an incident meter. Not quite as accurate as using the actual
subject to meter on.

As for white balance, you can WB on either a white or a grey card,
or use something like the Expodisc or Pringles lid aimed toward the
light source. They will give a very good WB reading, but so will
Auto in daylight. Indoors, balance on a white (or neutral grey)
object or do the same Expodisc trick as before. Should be exactly
equivalent.

To summarize, the camera's reflected light meter is your best tool
for exposure, but you should intelligently aim the center spot at
the part of the image that you want to expose for. Maybe even check
several areas of the image. Maybe even bracket or check histograms
on playback. Digital's latitude is so narrow we must expose for
what we want in the original image, because it is more difficult to
fix it in post.

Gary Eickmeier
 
As for white balance, you can WB on either a white or a grey card,
or use something like the Expodisc or Pringles lid aimed toward the
light source.
One note on grey cards for WB - grey cards are EXPOSURE tools, and they are created as an 18% grey exposure tool. Not all grey cards are color neutral - giving a nuetral grey to WB from. If you do get a grey card for WB, make sure it is neutral. But really, the pringles lid is so much easier to carry - it fits in your pocket and wont crease, or fold.

-GageFX
 
As for white balance, you can WB on either a white or a grey card,
or use something like the Expodisc or Pringles lid aimed toward the
light source.
One note on grey cards for WB - grey cards are EXPOSURE tools, and
they are created as an 18% grey exposure tool. Not all grey cards
are color neutral - giving a nuetral grey to WB from. If you do get
a grey card for WB, make sure it is neutral. But really, the
pringles lid is so much easier to carry - it fits in your pocket
and wont crease, or fold.

-GageFX
Ok ok ok, let me get this straight, you use a pringles cap on the front of a camera, point it at the light source and set the whitebalance to that? A simple yes or no will suffice, dont have to chuckle at me. 8-D

--
Sincerely,
John Talvan

[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/talvan/galleries
 
yes
As for white balance, you can WB on either a white or a grey card,
or use something like the Expodisc or Pringles lid aimed toward the
light source.
One note on grey cards for WB - grey cards are EXPOSURE tools, and
they are created as an 18% grey exposure tool. Not all grey cards
are color neutral - giving a nuetral grey to WB from. If you do get
a grey card for WB, make sure it is neutral. But really, the
pringles lid is so much easier to carry - it fits in your pocket
and wont crease, or fold.

-GageFX
Ok ok ok, let me get this straight, you use a pringles cap on the
front of a camera, point it at the light source and set the
whitebalance to that? A simple yes or no will suffice, dont have to
chuckle at me. 8-D

--
Sincerely,
John Talvan

[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/talvan/galleries
 
Did you read the thread I linked to?

-GageFX
Ok ok ok, let me get this straight, you use a pringles cap on the
front of a camera, point it at the light source and set the
whitebalance to that? A simple yes or no will suffice, dont have to
chuckle at me. 8-D
 
Just when I thought I had this understood, I was researching
"exposure" postings from the various forums & now I'm very confused.

My questions are:

1). When should one use a Grey Card & the proper way of setting the wb

2). When should one use a White Card & the proper way of setting
the wb

3). When should one use a pringles lid & the proper way of setting
the wb

4). Should a combination of either a Grey Card, White Card or
pringles be used together? If so, what is the proper way of doing
so?

The replys varied so much on the different forms it confused me & I
want to make sure im doing things right.

Thanks in advance,

SYON

PS: im using an E-20
 
As for white balance, you can WB on either a white or a grey card,
or use something like the Expodisc or Pringles lid aimed toward the
light source.
One note on grey cards for WB - grey cards are EXPOSURE tools, and
they are created as an 18% grey exposure tool. Not all grey cards
are color neutral - giving a nuetral grey to WB from. If you do get
a grey card for WB, make sure it is neutral.
Quite true, and it should be also noted that even a white sheet or card may not be neutral either. For example, the optical brightening agents are often incorporated in white paper stock (e.g., often in photo papers) and will fluoresce (emitting a blue-ish color) when under certain illumination. This is a well-known problem when trying to generate printer profiles using scanner data from printed color-patterns. I imagine it could influence a digicam WB setting as well. As to the concern about grey-card neutrality you raised--I think it even applies to "official" cards--such as Kodak's 18% card--where hue-shifting effects of age (and environment) are possible.

The nice thing about using a card (as opposed to Pringle's lid) is that if the card is included in a test-photo of the scene (e.g., a studio shoot) it provides a handy reference for later work with Photoshop curves.
Phil
 
Re including card in test shot: If I did that, I think I would use a gray card for WB, just to avoid the possibility of the white card being blown out in the shot (or even having one or two channels blown out),which would make it useless for setting white balance.
As for white balance, you can WB on either a white or a grey card,
or use something like the Expodisc or Pringles lid aimed toward the
light source.
One note on grey cards for WB - grey cards are EXPOSURE tools, and
they are created as an 18% grey exposure tool. Not all grey cards
are color neutral - giving a nuetral grey to WB from. If you do get
a grey card for WB, make sure it is neutral.
Quite true, and it should be also noted that even a white sheet
or card may not be neutral either. For example, the optical
brightening agents are often incorporated in white paper stock
(e.g., often in photo papers) and will fluoresce (emitting a
blue-ish color) when under certain illumination. This is a
well-known problem when trying to generate printer profiles using
scanner data from printed color-patterns. I imagine it could
influence a digicam WB setting as well. As to the concern about
grey-card neutrality you raised--I think it even applies to
"official" cards--such as Kodak's 18% card--where hue-shifting
effects of age (and environment) are possible.
The nice thing about using a card (as opposed to Pringle's lid) is
that if the card is included in a test-photo of the scene (e.g., a
studio shoot) it provides a handy reference for later work with
Photoshop curves.
Phil
 
-GageFX
Ok ok ok, let me get this straight, you use a pringles cap on the
front of a camera, point it at the light source and set the
whitebalance to that? A simple yes or no will suffice, dont have to
chuckle at me. 8-D
I finally trudged through every post in that thread. then i went out and bought a pack of pringles for my daughter. Arent i sweet? ;-)

got back home, used the cap, shot a RAW image, looked at it in PS 7 Adobe Camera RAW, and WOW. I didnt realize setting the white balance yourself could have such an impact. i hit Auto in in APSCR and it wanted to set it too 2850 instead of the 2500 it had been set at. I would have done some more testing, but my LIPO ran out of juice. First time for everything. BTW, RAW RULES!!!!! unless you are doing action shots. :-) Thnx Gage and all others for your help, time and efforts.
--
Sincerely,
John Talvan

[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/talvan/galleries
 
I think it even applies to
"official" cards--such as Kodak's 18% card--where hue-shifting
effects of age (and environment) are possible.
Kodak DOES make a color neutral card, but I guess you are right, it can shift in time.
The nice thing about using a card (as opposed to Pringle's lid) is
that if the card is included in a test-photo of the scene (e.g., a
studio shoot) it provides a handy reference for later work with
Photoshop curves.
I sometimes forget to pringles my WB I certainly would never remember to have a grey card in the first frame. When I get a model on set, the last thing in my mind is, "Hey, can you hold this grey card in fron of you?" Damn ADHD.

-GageFX
 
I sometimes forget to pringles my WB I certainly would never
remember to have a grey card in the first frame. When I get a model
on set, the last thing in my mind is, "Hey, can you hold this grey
card in fron of you?" Damn ADHD.
I guess that's an advantage to shooting furniture: Chippendale chests generally have a nice pair of knobs that can easily support a grey card during the setup shots. Your subjects? Just a nice pair of..oh never mind.
Phil
 
Has anyone had success with Pringles lid WB with studio lights? When you press the custom WB button does it trip the flash via sync cord?

chuck
 
. For example, the optical
brightening agents are often incorporated in white paper stock
(e.g., often in photo papers) and will fluoresce (emitting a
blue-ish color) when under certain illumination.
I found this out the hard way. I thought I was being clever gluing a 4 x 5 piece of matte heavy weight paper to a piece of cardboard and carrying it in my camera bag for a quick wb. Took me a while to figure out my pictures were farter off than if I just let auto-wb do it's job. Oh well, live and learn.

Does anybody know where I can pick up a small card (something that will fit in my bag) that's 18 % gray on one side and true white on the other?
 

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