Okay, so WHO’s TEMPTED by the FZ70?

Looking back in Panasonic history to 2005, when the constant 2.8 FZ20 was replaced with the FZ30, it was a new ball game and the replacement lens was no longer the much adored 2.8, but rather a variable 2.8-3.7. So, there is precedent for such a change.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz30/

The FZ30 and the FZ50 were approaching that "perfect" combination of features that we're all clamoring for again, especially the manual zoom. And, yes, I might add, the only cameras in the FZ lineup to include a rubber eyecup. I'd pay $590 for another FZ of that calibre, wouldn't you?
 
Vandyu wrote:

Looking back in Panasonic history to 2005, when the constant 2.8 FZ20 was replaced with the FZ30, it was a new ball game and the replacement lens was no longer the much adored 2.8, but rather a variable 2.8-3.7. So, there is precedent for such a change.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz30/

The FZ30 and the FZ50 were approaching that "perfect" combination of features that we're all clamoring for again, especially the manual zoom. And, yes, I might add, the only cameras in the FZ lineup to include a rubber eyecup. I'd pay $590 for another FZ of that calibre, wouldn't you?

--
GX7 has a rubber eyecup :-)

Sherm
 
It could not replace my FZ200.

But I could use something like that at airshows where I really want long focal lengths (at least 900mm equivalent) and wide angle. The FZ200 with TC loses its wide-angle, and if it's feasible to keep putting the TC on/off at all as required- it's a proper nuisance.

Flying displays at airshows are usually in good light (or at least some kind of daylight)... I don't need an articulated screen for them... and for my style of shooting, I prefer smaller apertures at longer zoom anyway - for more depth of field.

It all depends on how good the AF speed, burst rates, IQ etc compare with the FZ200. The current alternative in my eyes is the Fuji HS50 which has a manual zoom which would be great for airshows - but comes at a higher price than the FZ70.

I don't really want to carry two superzooms though. So although somewhat tempting... I'm not seriously considering any new purchases. I prefer to squeeze all the juice out of my FZ200 over the next year or so, until a 250 comes along with more zoom. Or a better Fuji. With That New Sensor!
 
My journey has been from a Panasonic fz18, usually with the oly tcon17 to an Olympus e620 usually with the 50-200 and a 1.4 converter for wildlife. I made the move primarily for better low light performance, and more responsiveness in terms of focus speed and accuracy and burst capabilities for shooting birds in flight.

My panny was relegated to a back up cam, but since it began to experience problemswith the programme dial and battery life it has sat on a shelf. I also had my beloved tcon17 and extension tube stolen.

Since then, I bought a second body, the e600 and use that as a backup. On my last safari, I tried the following combos:

E620 with the 50-200

e600 with the 70-300 and the 1.4 converter

As would be expected the latter combo is appreciably softer than the e620 with the 50-200 so I only really used it when I needed the extra zoom power for birds.

So I keep peeking over the fence to see what Panny comes up with as I miss the all in one lightweight package. Olympus keep promising a new body for my lenses, but have not yet delivered. The only way to get into the range of this fz70 with my gear would be with the 70-300 and a 2x converter, which, considering my experience with the 1.4 I think would produce quite soft results. The other option would be the old sigma 50-500. But I get the impression that the IQ is not all that good. Possibly on a par with the 70-300 with a tc. Though I could be mistaken.

Given my existing setup the fz200 doesn't appeal too much as I have that range fairly well covered I think. But the fz70 is intriguing as an addition to my oly gear. At present, I have been using my Panny hc-v700 camcorder when extra reach is needed for a record shot as it has a 48x zoom. But it only records at 3mp in camera mode.

The 3 frame limit on the burst mode is my biggest concern for this camera based on what we know righT now, i'm with others who are waiting to see what the image quality is really like for now. but colour me interested!

Jo
 
Vandyu wrote: "Looking back in Panasonic history to 2005, when the constant 2.8 FZ20 was replaced with the FZ30, it was a new ball game and the replacement lens was no longer the much adored 2.8, but rather a variable 2.8-3.7. So, there is precedent for such a change.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz30/

"The FZ30 and the FZ50 were approaching that "perfect" combination of features that we're all clamoring for again, especially the manual zoom. And, yes, I might add, the only cameras in the FZ lineup to include a rubber eyecup. I'd pay $590 for another FZ of that calibre, wouldn't you?"



Apologies for my delayed reply, Vandyu.

Aside from the fact I sympathise with your opinion re the lack of eyecups, I’ll begin by answering your closing question with a resounding NO, I would not pay $590 for any kind of FZ camera resembling the FZ30/50 design. To be fair, I wouldn’t even pay half that price and I guess you’ll want to know why? ;-)

I’ve been a photographer of sorts for 40-odd years, during which time I’ve used all manner of cameras to take all manner of subjects, including functions/events, people and animal/fish portraits, landscapes, architecture, intricate close-ups of retail goods and much more – often with film SLRs. By the early 2000’s, however, I was keen on the digital bridge camera design. In a relatively short time, the image quality attainable with small sensors had matched that of 35mm film (to my eyes), and by 2004 I owned an FZ20, which I immediately felt comfortable with. It felt kind of new and refreshing to use a camera with such a vast (then) optical range, and I soon became used to and liked the design of the motor zoom. No more twisting and turning a DSLR lens barrel – and the toggle switch around the shutter button enabled me to shoot from 35mm to 420mm with one hand, a convenience I still find very useful with later FZ cameras today in terms of taking wildlife shots, which is by far my main interest these days.

Anyway, whilst I fully appreciated my old FZ20 with its constant F2.8 motor zoom, in my opinion and experience, the later and manually operated FZ50 (which unfortunately handled too much like a twist/turn DSLR-type model I was trying to avoid) was and still is overrated and absolutely limited to ISO 100 if, as I am, users are sticklers for fur and feather detail retention in their animal and bird images. In anything but reasonable light, ISO 400 and upward was/is absolutely dreadful and subject to alarming levels of colour bleed. Focus speed at full tele on the FZ50 was far from ideal either, not much better than my older 20 really. And although I used an FZ50 for just 4-weeks about 3 to 4 years ago, I’ll never forget just how much of a drudge the weighty and cumbersome thing was to carry around when compared to the more lighter/plastic models we’ve seen since the return to the motor zoom design.

Let’s not forget that FZs were first and foremost motor zoom cameras, and that the manual incarnations of the 30 and 50 merely interrupted arguably a far more popular trend. Admittedly, any updated FZ complete with manual lens would benefit in the eyes of most from the advanced technologies of today, and to the point that some would buy such a model But even then, I’d venture to guess that a few of those who continue to preach the already worn-out sermon of the 50 would still find plenty to moan about if the design were ever to resurface. Either the zoom would be too long, not long enough, the wide end not wide enough, the new venus engine nowhere near as good as the old venus 3 (although it would actually be heaps better), the inclusion of video unnecessary, a function button missing or ill-placed, etc, etc, etc.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there is no way that Panasonic can possibly please everyone with its FZ line. But I have to say that so long as the majority of users are being catered for, the company can hardly be criticised for doing all it can to survive in these difficult economic times. So, personally, whilst I understand that some tastes of enthusiastic FZ users are not being catered for, I’m a million miles away from agreeing that a return to the 30/50 design would be a wise move beyond a very limited and niche market – and despite the fact that FZ50 fans may well argue otherwise. ;-)

Truth is, not everyone wants to see FZs fitted with manual zooms, and that’s most likely the reason why Panasonic continues to give its bulk users motorized versions – and as a chap who fully appreciated what motor zooms offer, I’m really interested in the 1200mm reach of brand new FZ70, assuming of course there's to be no FZ250 with identical magnification and an overall more appealing spec this year. :-)

Cheers…
 
A sound and reasoned response there Jo. I can fully appreciate why you feel the need to 'keep peeking over the Panasonic fence' too. :-) With 1200mm to go at, the FZ70's probably worth risking a little neck strain whilst having a look as well. ;-) Cheers...
 
Thanks, Sherm. That's a critical feature for me--as you probably know :-D
 
Stevie, you're on a roll these days. Always enjoy reading your posts. Lately I've had to get a snack between paragraphs ;-)

I never owned an FZ30 or 50. Did own the FZ20 and didn't like it too much indoors. The one thing that turned me off from the FZ50 was the poor quality of the EVF. While the camera was nearly the size of the Nikon D50, the viewfinder was too grainy for my eyes. I know we're talking EVF vs. OVF, but I decided to go with the Nikon after the FZ20.

Glad I've migrated back to an FZ and would probably like the improved EVF of the FZ200 over my current FZ150. Since I can't find one locally to look through, I can't say for sure. I do wish Panasonic would return to using a larger viewfinder. The FZ18 was the last, I believe, FZ to use 0.44 inches. Now, it seems like everything is half that size.

I will say that Panasonic probably lost an upgrade sale to the FZ200 from the 150 because I could not hold one in my hand. I really don't like to order and then return just to be able to examine a camera. These days, we don't have much choice.

Have you figured out what you're going to do to add a SBB Homemade Rubber Eye Cup to the FZ70?
 
I was considering upgrading from my FZ35 to this.....but not having the Leica lens may be a deal breaker....will wait and see the sample pictures after the camera comes out next month!
 
I actually did get a snack before I sat down and enjoyed your post. :-) You make some very good and logical points and now I have a question for you or anyone else. If I concede the manual zoom could I have a focus-by-wire system on the lens, at least, instead of the current manual focus method? I really struggled on the few occasions I needed to use the manual focus on my FZ200 to shoot through fences at the Toronto Zoo and wished, between curses, for a much easier focus-by-wire system. I had that type of manual focussing on my Sony F707 and it wasn't bad at all, even considering the low res screen and EVF on the camera. Of course a true mechanical focus would be best but it sounds like that would add some extra weight and/or complexity to the camera that may not be wanted.

-Tim
 
Tim, please excuse my delayed reply. I’m struggling horrendously with eye strain and headaches lately and therefore need bouts of at least 24 hrs where I avoid looking at a PC screen.

Anyway, I’m pleased you enjoyed and saw the ‘sense’ in my reply to Vandyu re the FZ50. :-) I trust you enjoyed your snack, too. ;-)

Unfortunately, however, I cannot answer your question re conceding a manual for a motor lens and using a ‘focus-by-wire’ jobby on the FZ200.

All I can say is that on the rare occasions I’ve been faced with photographing caged animals/birds with my FZ150 (motor zoom model), the spot autofocus focus setting – especially combined with spot metering – usually does the job of reaching the subject and blurring out the wire. Spot metering adds a centrally positioned cross in the focus square and it seems that whenever this point is plumb on the desired focus point of a subject sitting or standing under reasonable light and behind anything other than fine mesh, the FZ150’s autofocus is pulled to it. Obviously the closer to the wire barrier the photographer can be, the easier it is for them to hit the mark through any gaps by aiming as accurately as possible. :-)

I’d guess the FZ200 functions in pretty much the same way and that the manual focus wheel may also be useful too with some practice?

If I can find them, maybe a little later this week, I’ll post a couple of caged-animal efforts I’ve successfully shot using the FZ150 as mentioned above.

‘til then, happy snapping to ya…
 
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I understand "fly-by-wire" as it applies to aircraft, but not sure what you means with camera-focusing.

Does it (equally) apply to all the current cameras that have an (electrical) toggle-switch instead of a "ring" on the lens ??? Or is there a third method ???

I of course prefer a "ring" (on lens) for its direct tactile-visual feedback but mostly because it is "marked" enabling presetting distances.

I can accept focus-by-wire ONLY if it allows pre-setting distances. (in feet-inches since I am in America but it should be simple enough to be menu setable to metric)

I fear no focus-by-wire will give the same tactile-visual feedback as a lens-ring would.
--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
 
fz70 sensor is better than fz60? in percent how many better? 5-10%?
Your guess is as good as anyone's.

But it usually takes about a 25-30% improvement to be noticiable in real-life.

10% might be detectable in carefully-controlled side-by-side test-comparisons. (But I would accept that as an "improvement".)
A
--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
 
The focus-by-wire system on cameras means that you still turn a focus ring on the lens barrel but instead of a mechanical operation it is electronic. It doesn't provide the same tactile feel as a true mechanical focus but it can still be very effective. In my opinion if you are going to use some sort of electronic manual focus than this type is the best. Once you have set the focus switch to manual focus then you simply use the lens ring and there are no menus or awkward buttons to press. It is still pretty quick to use just not quite as good a mechanic focus ring. It is battery driven and I'm not sure if you can preset any distances. I couldn't on my Sony F707 but that was a bridge cam from more than ten years ago. Newer syatems might be more sophisticated.

I tried the manual focus on my FZ200 at the zoo with some success but I hated the method that you had to use it. In most cases I also just used the smallest focus area to shoot through fences. I had mixed results with that as well but still got most of the shots I wanted. Shooting through fences, especially when you can't get right up to them can be tricky with any method and it just takes practice. I forgot to practice for that specific situation prior to my trip. Next time I will be better prepared.

-Tim
 
JoePhoto wrote:
fz70 sensor is better than fz60? in percent how many better? 5-10%?
Your guess is as good as anyone's.

But it usually takes about a 25-30% improvement to be noticiable in real-life.

10% might be detectable in carefully-controlled side-by-side test-comparisons. (But I would accept that as an "improvement".)
A
--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
so if there will not be a fz200 refresh model, i can surely sell the fz62 for buy this new model
 
djsolidsnake86 wrote:
JoePhoto wrote:
fz70 sensor is better than fz60? in percent how many better? 5-10%?
Your guess is as good as anyone's.

But it usually takes about a 25-30% improvement to be noticiable in real-life.

10% might be detectable in carefully-controlled side-by-side test-comparisons. (But I would accept that as an "improvement".)
A
--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
so if there will not be a fz200 refresh model, i can surely sell the fz62 for buy this new model
Yes you can, i picked up a FZ 47 for $184.00 including shipping from Newegg on a black friday deal, the good news is if the FZ 70 isn't a winner you can expect big discounts but if it's a winner you will pay close to msrp which isn't bad for what you get from what i have seen so far.
 
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samualson wrote:
djsolidsnake86 wrote:
JoePhoto wrote:
fz70 sensor is better than fz60? in percent how many better? 5-10%?
Your guess is as good as anyone's.

But it usually takes about a 25-30% improvement to be noticiable in real-life.

10% might be detectable in carefully-controlled side-by-side test-comparisons. (But I would accept that as an "improvement".)
A
--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
so if there will not be a fz200 refresh model, i can surely sell the fz62 for buy this new model
Yes you can, i picked up a FZ 47 for $184.00 including shipping from Newegg on a black friday deal, the good news is if the FZ 70 isn't a winner you can expect big discounts but if it's a winner you will pay close to msrp which isn't bad for what you get from what i have seen so far.
are tou sure that the new model compared to the previous has a 25% better image quality? the sensor dimension is the same, i don't think so :(
 
djsolidsnake86 wrote:

fz70 sensor is better than fz60? in percent how many better? 5-10%?
I'm helping a friend decide between the FZ60 and FZ200 (which will be a gift to her from myself) I could use some help!

Initially she was interested in the ZS30 so I asked about that camera in another post and got some good input. However, when she and I went to check out the ZS30 the salesman showed her the ZFZ200 - and she decided the larger camera felt better (she wanted a longer zoom also). She won't do much post processing - and will do mostly auto/P mode. But IQ is most important to her since she is an artist (oil painting).

Today I did some research on both the FZ60 and FZ200, so I pretty much am aware of the spec differences, but I'm looking more for input especially on image quality (and any pros & cons) from anyone who might have experience with the FZ60 - or is knowledgeable about it. The constant f2.8 on the FZ200 is one big draw - plus EVF clarity.

However, the FZ200 is presently almost twice the price of the FZ60. Is it worth it?

I found quite a few reviews on the FZ60 on B&H and Amazon - especially on IQ. The reviews were really very good - very few complaints, and only couple regarding IQ.

However, I could find very little info on dpreview. Then I saw this post and wondered why the FZ200 and FZ50 is mentioned in comparison to the FZ70 - but never the FZ60. So thought I would ask.

Thanks.

--
Maria
 
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Black Friday is the time when I purchased my FZ150. That's the best time for discounts. It'll be interesting to see what Panasonic offers then. I got a good deal from Amazon, but you've got to do some advance planning to see who's offering what. Some companies keep things pretty secret and then Amazon will have some wild two-hour only specials sometimes so you have to be on their website or monitoring it closely.

Don't buy at full retail is my motto. But, sometimes it's unavoidable.
 

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