New System Build - Reality Check

Another new system build thread... Looking for reality check, and have a few questions:

Mainly large image editing, but want to future-proof a bit (no such thing, I know...). Running LR5 and CS6, lots of plug-ins, etc.

• Intel i7 3930K
• Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA2011 Mobo
• 32 GB DDR3 1600 RAM (Quad Channel)
• Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB (OS and Programs)
• Samsung 840 Pro 128 GB (swap and temp, LR catalog and previews)
• WD Black 4TB HDD (SATA 3) (Data)

Keeping my existing NVidea GPU card (I think it is a 650, but I can't remember off of the top of my head), Antec case, Plextor DVD burner and 750w PS.

Questions:

CPU Fan/Cooler = I always struggle with this as far as need vs. noise vs. what will fit into an ATX mid-tower. I have usually used Zalman, but am open to suggestions here.

OS = I have been using Windows 7 Home Premium, is that enough or do I need to go with Premium?

SSD Drive = Is the 128 GB large enough for the swap drive and LR previews?

Any other concerns/comments on this build? Overkill maybe?

Looks good to me.

But, I'd question the need for a separate 128GB SSD. I'd suggest you stick with primary Samsung 256GB SSD for everything instead.

For one thing, smaller SSD sizes (as in the 128BGB model you want to use for cache, swap, catalogs, etc.) have slower speed (especially on the write side). So, it would probably be better to keep everything on the faster 256GB Primary SSD instead.

256GB should be plenty for the OS, programs and additional space for cache files, temp files, swap files, catalogs, etc. Because of minimal latency with an SSD, additional disk requests (more requests stacked in the r/w queue) should have a minimal impact, too. That's one reason Samsung models excel with queue depth is deeper compared to some of the other SSD offerings, thanks to tri-core processors to help out that process, with very fast access times.

So, I'd suggest eliminating the second [slower] 128GB model from the config (and you could always add another SSD later if you really need the extra space).

Multiple HDD's make sense because of seek times and rotational latency.

This is not the case with SSD's. The miniscule performance benefits are easily outweighed by other considerations like component count, extra interfaces consumed etc. It's also more efficient to have one large pool of fast storage.

Much better to go with one large SSD; even 512GB if you can afford it.

Samsung just released a new series of SSD called 840 EVO. They come close to the Pro version for performance, but at a reduced cost. Not sure any are for sale yet.

Doesn't the i7 processor come with a cooler? If you are not going to overclock, a fancy cooler should not be needed.

Doublehelix said:

Doublehelix wrote:

OS = I have been using Windows 7 Home Premium, is that enough...

Click to expand...

You'll need Windows 7 Pro (Professional), Enterprise or Ultimate for the system to use 32GB of memory (as you have in your specs).

Win 7 Home Premium only supports up to 16GB. You'll need Win 7 Pro, Ultimate or Enterprise to allow the use of 32GB (as Windows 7 Home Premium is limited to 16GB; whereas Win 7 Pro, Enterprise or Ultimate will support up to 192GB). See this chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7#Physical_memory

That changed with Windows 8 (supports more memory with the base versions).

But, if you want to stick with Windows 7 (and I'd strongly suggest you stick with Win 7 and avoid Windows 8), then I'd make sure to go with the Professional version of Win 7 if you plan on installing more than 16GB of memory (since Win 7 Home Premium will not use more than 16GB of memory, no matter how much you install).

--
JimC
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Just to clarify, you'll need to make sure you have 64 Bit Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate or Enterprise to address 32GB of memory.

The 32 Bit versions of Windows 7 (even if you buy the Professional or Ultimate versions of it) will only address up to 4GB (more like 3.25GB Total after hardware takes some of the space), period (even if you spring for the Ultimate releases).

If you want Windows 7 to address 32GB of memory, you need 64 Bit Windows 7 Professional (and 64 Bit Windows 7 Ultimate will also work) at a minimum, as 64 Bit Windows 7 Home Premium won't work with anything more than 16GB, no matter how much you install.

32 bit versions of Windows 7 (even if you buy the Pro or Ultimate versions), won't address more than 4GB of memory (and you'll have closer to 3.25GB that's usable with a 32 bit version of Windows) Avoid 32 bit versions if you have more than a few GB installed, period.

IOW, if you want to use 32GB of memory with Windows 7, you'll need 64 Bit (not 32 bit) Windows 7 Professional. Ultimate or Enterprise. Other releases of Windows 7 (even if you buy 64 Bit Home Premium, since it's limited to 16GB) will not be able to address 32GB of memory.

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JimC
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Wow! Tons of great info in this thread already, thanks.

Windows 7 Professional = Got it.

Single SSD drive = Got it. I guess I thinking having a second SATA data pipe going to the second drive would be faster, but I guess once the programs were loaded, the program/OS drive would be pretty much idle anyway, so that makes sense. I will check on the 512GB price and see where that sits.

Any other comments on the CPU fan/cooler? I have no immediate plans to overclock.

Thanks again!

Doublehelix said:

Windows 7 Professional = Got it.

Click to expand...

Or Ultimate. But that really only gives you more languages, so unless you need that (I do) then stick to Pro.

Doublehelix said:

Single SSD drive = Got it. I guess I thinking having a second SATA data pipe going to the second drive would be faster, but I guess once the programs were loaded, the program/OS drive would be pretty much idle anyway, so that makes sense. I will check on the 512GB price and see where that sits.

Click to expand...

I also recommend one larger as simpler and just as fast, but I have two myself; one newer 240G and an older 120G which I use for software which does not fir on the main drive (mainly FSX with 80GB of terrain data). That works as well, and if you get a better price just go for it; the only disadvantage is it's two drives instead of one.

Doublehelix said:

Any other comments on the CPU fan/cooler? I have no immediate plans to overclock.

Click to expand...

Noctua raised fin-stack heatpipe coolers are incredible for the price and noise level. But if you do not plan to OC, the stock fan is not bad. Not excellent, but not bad.

Jesper

Don't be shy on Win 8 (more economical of resources).. just add the Start8 program ($5) which boots you direct to the desktop like Win 7 did and adds the start menu in the lower left corner.

I went with Win 8, 64 bit, i7 quad core 3.5ghz w turbo to 3.9, 16 gig of ram and a 256 gig Samsung 800 SSD internal. It is an all in one with a 27" LCD screen which calibrated (Color Munki Smile) beautifully. It's a LR 5 set up BTW. I use its USB 2 to a (powered) hub for connections for keyboard, mouse, printers and a LaCie TB Raid which is the last backup. The USB 3.0 goes to a powered 4 port individually switched hub which is used for the USB 3.0 camera card reader, a SATA III powered connector to a Samsung 840, 512 gig SSD for all photos and music and a 1/2 TB USB 3.0 HDD for primary backup.

I went with the 840 instead of the 840 Pro since the roughly 1/3 extra cost only achieved about a 7 or 8% speed increase which did not strike me as particularly cost effective.

I was out shooting Sunday AM and came home with 117, 26 meg Fuji raw files on a UHS-1 95 mbs card. Import time (LR5) was 44 seconds for the full 117. I don't think it would have been worth the extra $125 to drop that to 41 seconds... just my take on it. It creates TIFFs for external to NIK pretty quickly and runs any of the NIK plug ins pretty snappy, as it does with cooking raw to jpegs.

I figure I'm good for 4 to 5 years or so........ and who knows what we will be doing then.

Hope it helps.

Doublehelix said:

Doublehelix wrote: Overkill maybe?

Click to expand...

I think the 32 GB of DDR3 may be overkill. It would be best to get the experience of those who have that much and run similar applications as you plan to see if the apps even use it. My guess is that 2x8 may be enough... But, it is just that, a guess...

Ron AKA said:

Ron AKA wrote:

Ron AKA said:

Doublehelix wrote: Overkill maybe?

Click to expand...

I think the 32 GB of DDR3 may be overkill. It would be best to get the experience of those who have that much and run similar applications as you plan to see if the apps even use it. My guess is that 2x8 may be enough... But, it is just that, a guess...

Click to expand...

Thanks Ron. I wanted to go with quad channel RAM rather than dual channel, and since RAM is cheap nowadays...??? You are right though, it may not be used to its fullest extent.

Anyone else have any experience with this much RAM? Worth it? Overkill?

Doublehelix said:

Thanks Ron. I wanted to go with quad channel RAM rather than dual channel, and since RAM is cheap nowadays...??? You are right though, it may not be used to its fullest extent.

Anyone else have any experience with this much RAM? Worth it? Overkill?

Click to expand...

I got 32GB RAM with my new system. No reason not to, with RAM being that cheap. I turned off all swap files and made a dynamic RAM disk for temprary files, which makes a difference in performance even with an SSD. It also saved the life of the SSD as there are fewer writes to it.

I'd say definitely worth it.

Jesper

Doublehelix said:

Doublehelix wrote:

Another new system build thread... Looking for reality check, and have a few questions:

Mainly large image editing, but want to future-proof a bit (no such thing, I know...). Running LR5 and CS6, lots of plug-ins, etc.

• Intel i7 3930K
• Asus Sabertooth X79 LGA2011 Mobo
• 32 GB DDR3 1600 RAM (Quad Channel)
• Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB (OS and Programs)
• Samsung 840 Pro 128 GB (swap and temp, LR catalog and previews)
• WD Black 4TB HDD (SATA 3) (Data)

Keeping my existing NVidea GPU card (I think it is a 650, but I can't remember off of the top of my head), Antec case, Plextor DVD burner and 750w PS.

Questions:

CPU Fan/Cooler = I always struggle with this as far as need vs. noise vs. what will fit into an ATX mid-tower. I have usually used Zalman, but am open to suggestions here.

OS = I have been using Windows 7 Home Premium, is that enough or do I need to go with Premium?

SSD Drive = Is the 128 GB large enough for the swap drive and LR previews?

Any other concerns/comments on this build? Overkill maybe?

--
James

Click to expand...

I have very similar system.

But I only have 120GB SSD for OS, Programs and cache. After installing several suites, 100s of other programs etc it is only half filled. Performance wise it really does not make any difference. Only synthetic (pathetic) tests show higher performance on larger drive but in real life there is such a thing called computing time. So even slower SSD can write in between computing time and writes. The advantage here is random access that is non-existent in practical terms on SSD. Someone here wrote that 117 files were transferred to fast SSD in 44 seconds. Whoopee...My USB 3 reader transfers 4 5D3 RAW files per second to a hard drive. And it is same exact time to SSD. That would make 29 seconds for 117 files on Sabertooth X79 board. Same exact thing happens if you read multiple files from SSD or HD.There is that thing called computing time interferes in between.

But if you can afford larger SSD by all means get it.

Definitely go for 32GB because of the price. Memory speed or latency does not make any difference in real life.

As far as cooling CPU go for liquid if you can. You can practically fit any liquid kit in to any case (radiator is outside) but with larger on the chip air heat sink you would have to buy wide enough case to accommodate it. Plus large heat sink takes a lot of space anyway and it is difficult to install other components.

If you want faster performance for data (if you have humongous files) go for RAID 0. So instead of one 4TB get 2 2TB drives and join them. It will speed up writing and reading of very large files. Just to protect yourself buy external enclosure with the matching setup and after each photo event back up your files after you transfer them to internal HD. And finally get Blue-ray recorder and burn each event to a disk.

I actually have 3TB internal, 3TB external and 6TB external all RAID 0. Plus I have cradle for whole bunch of 1TB drives to store off site. Yes, I am paranoid.

If you are not overclocking 600w PS will be enough. But if you will decided to overclock I would suggest at least 800w and a single rail. I have burned 2 PS before 750w and 680w on i7 920 OCed to 4.2Ghz. You want something like at least 40 amps or more on one +12v rail. In about a year you will lose 10% efficiency of your PS so take that in to consideration.

At this point I would suggest getting Windows 8.1, the new version coming out by the end of this month.

Thanks so far for all of the answers. I have been doing some reading over at Tom's Hardware, and now I am beginning to question the 3930 (and X79 chipset) in favor of the cheaper 3770K or even the newer Haswell 4770K.

Any comments here before I pull the trigger on the older Gen2 CPU?

Member said:

SushiEater wrote:

But I only have 120GB SSD for OS, Programs and cache. After installing several suites, 100s of other programs etc it is only half filled. Performance wise it really does not make any difference. Only synthetic (pathetic) tests show higher performance on larger drive but in real life

Click to expand...

Mine isn't looking so lean. Win 7 pro + CS6 and limited other stuff and it's at 90gb - the lightroom catalog backups are part of this accumulation. So I'd lean away from the 120 as a boot drive on a new config. I agree that the performance differences between the 120 and 240s of late are nearly meaningless in separation.

Member said:

If you are not overclocking 600w PS will be enough. But if you will decided to overclock I would suggest at least 800w and a single rail. I have burned 2 PS before 750w and 680w on i7 920 OCed to 4.2Ghz. You want something like at least 40 amps or more on one +12v rail. In about a year you will lose 10% efficiency of your PS so take that in to consideration.

Click to expand...

These CPUs have a TDP of 130 W. What are you needing 800 for?

130w is the maximum for 3.2GHz, overclocked it could go much higher. Mine goes over 150w during burst while converting RAW files. And that is not even close to 100% CPU utilization. Maybe 50% at the most. At full speed idle is 90w. At true idle is 24w. Remember that is not only requires power, motherboard too.

Price/Performance 4770K is better than 3930K. And you will be getting 6 native Intel SATA 6Gb ports instead of third party.

Have you considered the AMD A10-6800 option? Tom's Hardware Benchmark for Photoshop CS6 is not far off the top i7 processors. Includes graphics processor and is much more modestly priced. Asus F2A85-V Pro motherboard looks like a good match. Again reasonably priced.

Get a 512G SSD if you can afford it and skip the smaller SSD's..

32G of RAM will future proof you for the next 5 years.

You are wise to go with Intel i7 chip, it will be like a racecar, it'll be SO fast!

No need for cooler as long as you don't over clock.

Have fun, your rig will rock!

Member said:

If you are not overclocking 600w PS will be enough. But if you will decided to overclock I would suggest at least 800w and a single rail. I have burned 2 PS before 750w and 680w on i7 920 OCed to 4.2Ghz. You want something like at least 40 amps or more on one +12v rail. In about a year you will lose 10% efficiency of your PS so take that in to consideration.

Click to expand...

I overclocked for a few years on a quality 550W PSU with no issues. That PSU is now in my spare system and has no problems at all. There is no need to all to go high wattage, instead make sure the PSU is good quality. Going insane with 800W on a non-gamer system is, well, insane, and will do nothing at all to prevent the PSU from burning.

Calculate the amount of power draw in the system and get a PSU with approximately double that rating. The 10% maximum draw loss is included in that number, so don't worry about it.

Jesper