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No FZ250, FZ range re-crippled
- Thread starter Mikedigi
- Start date
GeraldW
Veteran Member
What happened to the really good sensor and processor from the FZ150?
I'm really pretty happy with the FZ200, as is, and don't see a burning need to replace it. But maybe that's because it's not my only camera and occupies a niche position in my inventory.
In one of my periodic "let's try living without a DSLR" flings, I found that neither the FZ200 or my G15 can quite be a broad range replacement for a DSLR. Under limited circumstances, yes; but not fully. That places both the G15 and FZ200 in more limited roles, and they fulfill those roles brilliantly. So there is no urge to replace them.
I do not see that the FZ200, if it is the last of its kind, is really parallel to the FZ50. In spite of its larger sensor, the FZ50 was quite poor at ISO 400 in JPEGs. It really needed at least one more generation of development (probably two) to get to the level of development of the FZ200.
I'm really pretty happy with the FZ200, as is, and don't see a burning need to replace it. But maybe that's because it's not my only camera and occupies a niche position in my inventory.
In one of my periodic "let's try living without a DSLR" flings, I found that neither the FZ200 or my G15 can quite be a broad range replacement for a DSLR. Under limited circumstances, yes; but not fully. That places both the G15 and FZ200 in more limited roles, and they fulfill those roles brilliantly. So there is no urge to replace them.
I do not see that the FZ200, if it is the last of its kind, is really parallel to the FZ50. In spite of its larger sensor, the FZ50 was quite poor at ISO 400 in JPEGs. It really needed at least one more generation of development (probably two) to get to the level of development of the FZ200.
richj20
Forum Pro
When I half-press immediately after the camera turns on, date-time does not display.
The biggest time-waster for me is that I cannot press the rear wheel to switch to EV compensation until all of the photographic settings have displayed -- about 4 seconds.
That's an eternity if I want to shoot immediately.
Having said that, I can shoot immediately even before the settings display -- I just have to use the default EV and correct later if necessary.
- Richard
John Miles
Veteran Member
Yes the FZ50 is behind the times by quite a margin by now. But it doesn't negate what it can do. The FZ200 is at the very least similar in format to many other superzooms. One might hope that one of all those other superzooms might come good; or that Panasonic continue its saw tooth journey with the FZ and the now new range attain another peak.
John Miles
Veteran Member
At last. It's taken 3 years to glean that bit of information from someone on this forum. Thank you.
So Richard, old buddy, old mate. Can YOU tell me the seconds from camera off to long end zoom, including an EV adjustment of one at least 1/3 EV?
kkardster
Forum Pro
Maybe Richard can do better since he's been "practicing", but you'll have to add a second or two to the 4 seconds noted above to allow for adjusting EV via the thumb wheel. You might be able to save a second using sleep mode instead of powering off.
If you use AE bracketing in a custom mode, you can cut that time considerably - to just over 2 seconds - but it's just another workaround. Sleep mode won't help here, because sleep mode cancels AEB?! Dumb.
If you leave the camera on with QuickAF enabled, it's even less. But that only suits certain shooting styles. Personally, if I'm in a situation where I need my camera in hand and ready for use, it'll be turned on and ready for use - typically with the lens extended with lens resume enabled.
richj20
Forum Pro
About 6 seconds. But I'm keeping EV -1/3 default, so I can shoot at full zoom at about 5 seconds. That's assuming I don't have to change aperture!
Compare: with my G3 and 45-150mm lens mounted, I can shoot at full zoom in under 2 seconds after turn-on.
Not a fair comparison, of course, because electronic zoom is always much slower than a mechanical/manual zoom ring. It's what we accept with these cameras.
With all of my complaining about this "time-waster," it's rare that I want to shoot so quickly. A few weeks ago I encountered this Jay. They don't usually stay around very long.
Steller's Jay, Cyanocitta stelleri
But these quick-to-shoot instances are not so frequent with me, so I don't complain too much...
- Richard
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
Yes . . . and yes, it does not irritate you, which is great, but it does irritate me.
If the camera simply had in the Setup Menu:
"Show date & time - Yes/No"
we would both be happy.
Likewise with the other time-wasters I mentioned.
And Min Shutter Speed should be available in Aperture Priority Mode.
I find their decision-making process very strange in some parts.
But - I should be writing to Panasonic, not listing irritations here, I accept that.
Mike
John Miles
Veteran Member
No I understand it's an extremely unfair comparison, but I needed to know.
Agreed. But my photographic results are in part appreciated by being able to get the camera to composition quickly, very quickly where possible. I can only dream of the 2 seconds for the G3 though - that is really quick!
You conclude with a wonderful shot. Thanks once again.A few weeks ago I encountered this Jay. They don't usually stay around very long.
Steller's Jay, Cyanocitta stelleri
But these quick-to-shoot instances are not so frequent with me, so I don't complain too much...
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__________________________________________________________________________
The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. I live in hope that Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue have triggered the update to the FZ50. Please update the FZ50. It is unique and users of it cannot update without compromise of one or more of its combination of features. Full tribute here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=42366095 . Performace diagram here: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3862228415/photos/2623982/fz50-performance-range
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
Is that the real John Miles?
What about: similar size and weight, same sensor size, same lens, but with manual zoom ring?
A technically simple, but massive improvement, no more "pause and then 2.5 seconds" to go from wide angle to full zoom?
I can live with the IQ, I can even live with the cigarette lighter rear dial, but waiting for the lens to go for its walk is agonizing, especially if something is coming towards you or going away from you. The poor thing is crying out for a manual zoom.
Mike
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
I would prefer having the option to eliminate date & time from the display. It seems to present me with date & time frequently. I never, ever, switch on a camera to look at date and time. They might as well show me the tide tables for Portsmouth Harbour, or the dates of religious festivals in Austria.
The only place I want date and time is in the EXIF and accessible via a menu if I want it
That is an excellent point - I had sensed it, but had not analysed it as you have. A lot can happen in 4 seconds in the real world and if you add on the zoom time I mentioned above there is massive room for improvement.
Mike
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
John Miles
Veteran Member
Yes. The FZ200 is a very good camera, as I take care to state in every FZ upgrade thread. It just isn't an upgrade to the FZ50, but the FZ20. Well I see the FZ200's format as essential to the range. An upgrade to the FZ50 needs to be an additional camera, as in Fuji's range. I bracket the FZ50 as a partner camera to the LX7; an alternative enthusiast's superzoom camera that doesn't need to cripple long zoom reach by accepting the 35mm wide end.
I agree about the importance of speed to composition. But again I don't believ a motor lensed camera is or can be a speed solution.
Well yes. My assessment of every FZ in store since the FZ50 has started and ended with picking it up and switching it on. That's it.
I suggest an FZ is crying out for a manual zoom . Time for the two to sell side by side I say. I'd change the FZ50 upgrader to the LX tag, releasing both cameras simultaneously each year; LX8 and LX80 for example. That would be superb in my book.
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
John, you may have misunderstood me.
If I had my FZ200, exactly as is, but the motor zoom replaced by a DSLR/FZ50-like manual zoom, and a few minor irritations/time-wasters removed (it's only programming), it would be about as perfect as I need.
I say "need" not "want" because I love shooting modest action, in my amateur way. The manual zoom would help with (slow) planes, dogs, kids, etc, etc.
Calling it an LX would be bizarre, for me.
The FZ70/72 is the zoom/pixel-rich, low cost shopping mall FZ model.
The FZ200MZ (manual zoom) would be the market-leading photographer's FZ (Field Zoom).
It might not be as good as an FZ50 upgrade, but they could do it so easily starting from the FZ200 as is now.
[ PS it is not about to happen :-( but if they also took off all the unnecessary obesity that has accumulated on the FZ200 since the FZ8, that would be better still, for me. Now that would be a jewel of a camera. But I repeat, it is not about to happen, it would need a more courageous marketing vision and a talent for promotion that is lacking. ]
Mike
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GeraldW
Veteran Member
...but I never thouight the manual zoom and non-extending lens was that big of a deal. I did think the supurb lens, good control layout and TTL hot shoe were more important - at least to me. Probably why I gravitated toward the FZ150 and then the FZ200.
As I had come from the Canon S3IS and S5IS, the lack of a manual zoom and non-extending lens didn't mean much to me when I bought the FZ28. What I missed was the hot shoe and articulated LCD. What I didn't miss from the Canons was the serious chromatic aberration. Canon didn't get around to fixing that until the SX40HS when they finally added auto removal of CA.
As I had come from the Canon S3IS and S5IS, the lack of a manual zoom and non-extending lens didn't mean much to me when I bought the FZ28. What I missed was the hot shoe and articulated LCD. What I didn't miss from the Canons was the serious chromatic aberration. Canon didn't get around to fixing that until the SX40HS when they finally added auto removal of CA.
M
Mike Wrob
Guest
I'd take a manual focus over a manual zoom.
JoePhoto
Veteran Member
I agree but also want it "marked" so I can pre-set for a shorter shutter-lag or at night, maybe with flash.
John Miles
Veteran Member
You stand with many on this. But from a hot air balloon looking down on the industry, I am bemused as to why sensor size allies so strongly to manually or motorised zoom options; big sensor - manual zoom, small sensor - motorised. This implies that no-one will consider DSLR handling of a small sensor camera useful. From full frame down to 4/3", camera systems are available; but where are the others. Pentax go to a small sensor system but it is chronically over priced and offers no superzoom ??!!!
The FZ50 achieves OFF >> 420mm shot >> 35mm shot >> OFF in 6 seconds. Subtract that time from the FZ200's and half the result, and that is the compositional comfort zone available constantly from manual lens zooming. For instance. If, at a social gathering, I see the photo worthy smile, I swoop in at 420mm to capture it before it fades, then instantly draw back, sometimes right out to 35mm, to take a second shot that puts the first in context. I do this because the FZ50 can. Motor zooms miss the first shot, but can achieve the second. DSLR's can get one or the other, but the long shots lack the depth of field when capturing more than one person in frame.
All of that is available in those cameras; but DSLR handling qualities are critical to me.
Panasonics CA control has been second to none for ages. It has generated expectations from image quality that have kept me with Panasonic so far. If others get CA right and give me the chance to calibrate WB to my preferences, then I could easily look elsewhere.
John Miles
Veteran Member
Jerry I looked through the last batch of photographs I took, for a sample set, and found these. Below are five shots of varying EV adjustments as I simply go about my hobby of taking photographs. Yet the first and last image are 26 seconds apart! Even with this available handling I stop briefly to take something and end up jogging after the family; who rarely stop walking
Jerry the FZ200 will take better shots of all of these. The ZZ50 will if I set it up to do so. But the difference here is, change the photography event to a gathering of people, and the FZ50 will be all over it like no other camera. Even by the stroll below It will capture 10 EV compensated shots a minute between 35 and 420mm. I will have said this a million times by now, but no one in the industry seems to appreciate the value to be placed on simply being able to get to the shot. It is vital for me.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. I live in hope that Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue have triggered the update to the FZ50. Please update the FZ50. It is unique and users of it cannot update without compromise of one or more of its combination of features. Full tribute here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=42366095 . Performace diagram here: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3862228415/photos/2623982/fz50-performance-range
Jerry the FZ200 will take better shots of all of these. The ZZ50 will if I set it up to do so. But the difference here is, change the photography event to a gathering of people, and the FZ50 will be all over it like no other camera. Even by the stroll below It will capture 10 EV compensated shots a minute between 35 and 420mm. I will have said this a million times by now, but no one in the industry seems to appreciate the value to be placed on simply being able to get to the shot. It is vital for me.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. I live in hope that Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue have triggered the update to the FZ50. Please update the FZ50. It is unique and users of it cannot update without compromise of one or more of its combination of features. Full tribute here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=42366095 . Performace diagram here: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3862228415/photos/2623982/fz50-performance-range
I think that you've misread the tea leaves. "Useful" is probably not under discussion at the camera companies in general or at Panasonic in particular. "Profitable" is the characteristic that they are most interested in chasing.
Panny has the sales forecasts/actuals for the FZ-30/50 and I've always assumed that those hard numbers were used to reach a decision years ago. They also have the numbers for the FZ60/FZ200 sales and I expect that they will (or more likely "have") used those numbers to reach another decision.
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