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Things about photographers that tick me off: From a photographer's point of view.

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Josh152 said:
Josh152 wrote:
Josh152 said:
Paul B Jones wrote:

If "The brand doesn't F*&%$#G matter, it's the man behind the lens that does!" why did the incident bother you enough to post about it, and on top of that, why did you mention the name of your brand and the brand of your tormenter?
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plevyadophy said:
plevyadophy wrote:

That's twice in two days, I have come across a post of yours (you may recall that I recently complimented you on your signature footer).

Now, we have the facility to give a thumbs up to certain posts, and we also have the facility to ignore members we find irritating (such that none of their posts ever show up when we log-in to this site); what I would love DPReview to also do is to add a feature whereby we can highlight our favourite posters so that we can quickly check up on posts made by them and you would certainly be on my lists of favourites.

I just love the way your illustrated your post, and in fact in all the years that I have been a member of this site it's the first time that I can recall someone doing that; usually folks have images in their post that are there simply to illustrate a particular point they are making (some technical flaw or goodness, or for critiquing or an image of some new purchase etc etc), but your images on the other hand were there just like pleasant decoration adding to the value of the words, a sort of mini photo exhibition.

Not only that, your images are quite lovely and ................. the accompanying sentiments expressed, in my view, were spot on (and I would love to know how the pompous 1D X fool is feeling now after his silly lecture). Bravo!!

I loved your post.

Thanks.
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I do remember you, and thank you so much! I am glad that my stuff is appreciated :)
 
Mahmoud Mousef said:
Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

You don't really feel this strongly about the 'issue', do you?
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I do, simply because I'm speaking on behalf of a few other photographers I've seen over the years who were chided by other photographers for using Sony.

I remember when I used to have an xTi (Rebel) and some guy had a Sony a800.

The Canon guys I was with tore him to shreds, and he left the shoot early from all of their crap, and I just stood there quietly and let it happen because I honestly didn't know how to react.
 
StayClassy said:
StayClassy wrote:

The Canon guys I was with tore him to shreds, and he left the shoot early from all of their crap, and I just stood there quietly and let it happen because I honestly didn't know how to react.
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This has begun to sound like a Nickelodeon after school special.

.
 
moving_comfort said:
moving_comfort wrote:
moving_comfort said:
StayClassy wrote:

The Canon guys I was with tore him to shreds, and he left the shoot early from all of their crap, and I just stood there quietly and let it happen because I honestly didn't know how to react.
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This has begun to sound like a Nickelodeon after school special.
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StayClassy said:
StayClassy wrote:
StayClassy said:
moving_comfort wrote:
StayClassy said:
StayClassy wrote:

The Canon guys I was with tore him to shreds, and he left the shoot early from all of their crap, and I just stood there quietly and let it happen because I honestly didn't know how to react.
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This has begun to sound like a Nickelodeon after school special.
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I can understand your apprehension at the legitimacy of all of this, but all I have to say is:
I live in NYC.
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That explains it :) (really it does, no disrespect to NYC folk, but the level of competitiveness there can get silly and come out in weird ways.)

.
 
tko said:
tko wrote:

Man, you take one crazy guy as a universal truth. I've never cared or paid attention to what the guy next to me was shooting. It's fun to mess around on the boards, but in the field, who cares?

If a guy laughs at the camera you have, he's an insecure idiot. End of story, don't let it get to you.
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While it's stupid to criticise other people's gear, I don't think it's worth being a brand martyr. If someone points out the advantages of another brands models I tend to listen. I can then at least figure out whether or not their opinion is relevant to me.

I use whatever equipment works best. I know gear is secondary, but having used everything from Holgas to professional digital cameras. I know how important the right equipment is. There are physical and electronic barriers that no amount of skill can overcome.

So while I realise that there are some gear myths that are totally without substance, there is also a lot of truth to others. Why is it so many studio photographers have Canons and Mamiyas? The truth is because they work. In photography there are many shifts in technology and rarely do good tools go unnoticed, or bad ones tolerated. So times people just point out what they think are inferior gear choices, that is life. Doesn't make them idiots, what makes them idiots is if they are wrong.

I generally think the whole SLT technology, will perplex many SLR users. They don't seem to offer many advantages and they have obvious disadvantages, when you use that kind of technology expect comments.
 
There are jerks like that all over, and in every hobby or occupation. My favorite was about the guy on the chair lift at a ski area. He had all the best stuff and was sort of sneering at my budget gear. He had " better than you" response for everything I said. When we got to the top, he got tangled up in the lift, and they had to stop the lift to get him loose. He was obviously in some pain. So I just said something about enjoying the ride and skiied off down the mountain.

I've run into the same Canon and Nikon shooters and their attitude is the same, even if you're shooting a low end Canon or Nikon.

By the way, your shots are excellent. Really enjoyed looking at them. I don't think you have anything to prove to anyone.
 
DenWil said:
DenWil wrote:
DenWil said:
StayClassy wrote:

*All pictures in this thread were shot with my Sony A99.
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I do not care.
DenWil said:
So I'm writing this because of an experience I had today at B&H. While waiting on line for the used department to scoop up a 35-105mm Minolta lens for my A99, a Canon guy started to guffaw at my A99 hanging around my shoulder.
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Although my first instinct is to roll my eyes that you wore your camera into a camera store...I will simply question why are you interacting with some schmuck customer in a store? When you are in Safeway do you take comments from all the other cereal shoppers?
DenWil said:
Mind you, I have never been formally trained in the art of photography. I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him. Which brings me to my first point:
1) The brand doesn't F*&%$#G matter, it's the man behind the lens that does!

There is an insufferable attitude with most photographers that the gear = photographic skill. That couldn't be further from the truth.
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Not necessarily true.The gear in play may very well represent a great deal of photographic skill. I use a camera with zero automation and to consistently get the images I and others get from our cameras, it most certainly does indicate skill. The fact that some small modern devices do not indicate, suggest or require any viable skill set by its user is neither here nor there.
DenWil said:
While the camera does have some importance in terms of performance (ISO performance, noise capabilities, OSS, etc.), a crappy camera can return better shots than the most expensive setup with someone with little to no skill. It's a lot like being a motorcycle rider: you can have an 1100cc Kawasaki, and some guy on a 400cc Yamaha can still outpace you. Why? Skill of the rider, not so much the ability of the bike. However, when a photographer believes that they are truly "skilled", they bring me to point #2:

2) You are not the best, and being famous/highly paid
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Highly paid is most definitely a major mark of success- unless the love of your children is all you need to be happy. There are many well paid photographers that the general public has no clue about so I agree famous is relative. A skill set can cover many areas or just those required for the job at hand. Being able to throw a fast ball on demand from point A to point B consistently at 95MPH isn't much of a skill set but...
DenWil said:
is nary a mark of success or skill.

As a 22 year young, inexperienced photographer (in terms of years on this planet), I'm still coming across situations where the perfect moment eluded me simply because I made a bad judgment call on my settings. I don't claim to be the best, nor do I claim to be "good". I only claim to be "competent". Yet, time and time again, I run across photographers who insist that because they are working for (insert company here) or that they have (insert trust fund here) in the bank, that they are superior to you and therefore, have credible information. Now, I'm open to tips and pointers. But when the person giving those tips and pointers has the attitude of someone who you'd swear just fell out of Prince William's porcelain throne, you can't help but just blank them out. Why? I'd rather learn the hard way, practicing and perfecting my art the hard way (shot by shot). Being someone of status and credibility is a very respectable thing, of course. However, if pop music is to teach us anything, it's that talent often comes second to who you know. Why would photography be anything different? So let's move to point #3:
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Time and time again? No one says boo to me when I am out shooting. I don't talk to them. I work. That someone bought a camera provides no entrance into my day. We all wear shoes, we all drive cars yet none of these things justifies unsolicited life advice, why on earth should owning a camera? I don't give a duck what they are doing or what their opinions are.
DenWil said:
3) Once you have enough skill, equipment does matter. But for reasons you might not think.

You'd be forgiven if your first thought was, "wait, didn't you just say that equipment doesn't matter?!". That still holds true. But there is a certain point where you reach a level of photographic ability that warrants you having to purchase a better camera and lens for better DOF/high ISO/
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That's advertising and it's a joke. Reminds me of an old comparison between folks who get high to go out and do something and folks who get high to sit in a chair and be high. Better depth of field (in the form of fast lenses) is a fallacy promoted by folks with no control of their image, something to hide, or who are shooting to be clever. As for high ISO, I haven't needed over 100 in over a decade so you can probably discern my attitude towards the hard on folks have for high ISO capabilities.
DenWil said:
OSS capabilities (among other features). But this brings me directly to my last point:

4) You don't know me from a hole in the wall, so how can you judge me based on my brand of camera?

So now that we've established that skill versus equipment are linked, but not to the degree that most photographers like to pretend it is, why do many photographers still insist on judging someone based on their brand of camera?
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Why do I need to know you to form a cursory opinion about you? I base it on everything else- clothes, demeanor, language, weight, age, sense of humor, looks, education, school (when applicable) sports- so why not factor in buying choices as they extend to a camera, A/V equipment and OS?

If I am reviewing finished work I not only don't care what the camera is but I care nothing about the shooter or his personal life.

The problem is not that folks judge based on anything and everything -you need to evolve and learn to only care what people you respect think (or the folks who write you checks) if even then. What most photographers think about your camera is a non issue. What they think about mine certainly is. It's way to heavy for most of them, regardless.
DenWil said:
If I bought a camera, it is most likely because that camera has certain features which suit my needs. At that point, can't we just agree to enjoy the art of shooting photos,
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Swell, descending to another Hallmark moment. Good grief.
DenWil said:
and not shooting at each other because you're afraid that someone else might have a bigger lens than you? One of my fondest experiences was shooting a concert alongside a Canon buff with the 1DX. We spent the latter part of our pre-concert setup with me silently ignoring his sales pitch on how the 1DX is superior to the Sony in every way, and ended with my photos being picked for internal use.
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There is a sentence which I will clean up for DPR- look the person straight in the face and tell them in no uncertain terms to mind their own business. This is not a group activity and you have friends to kick it with later (certainly not the words I'd use in your situation.)

I don't run across it but apparently many photographers think of having a camera as an entrance ticket to a community and a right to contribute to and interact with any one else with a camera. It's so funny. I have a lawnmower and you have a lawnmower so you should talk to me and care what I have to say. Amazing.
DenWil said:
Why? I chose equipment that suited my style: EVF for the ability to change settings on the fly without needing test shots, Full Frame for high-ISO handling, and the ability to shoot with vintage Minolta glass, which saves me money but gives me great optical ability. Sure, the 1DX outclasses my Sony in almost every category, but in reality, the world doesn't work on spec sheets.

When people ask me whether I'm a photographer, I tell them that I'm more of a time artist. After all, my art is my ability to freeze time and capture a moment forever.
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Oh, brother. I think I'm going to cry. That's so precious.
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I stopped taking the OP serious as soon as he said he didn't know anything about the rule of thirds.

Can't get much more basic than that.

If I were a betting man I'd bet that everything he said about this other customer at B&H was made up just to get some attention here.

Luckily, he didn't ask for a critique of his posted pictures because he seems like the type person who wouldn't pay attention to anyone who knew anything about photography anyway.

One other poster (detail man?) said that he believes in the "Gatling gun" approach to photography and I think that typifies the average young "photographer" now days.

They know how to press a shutter button and their results can be attributed to luck or their "artistic ability", which is seen by most people as a joke.
 
Detail Man said:
Detail Man wrote:
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Detail Man said:
In this digital age, I am a firm believer in the "gatling gun" approach. The stars (perspective on subject-matter, lighting conditions and distribution, possible subject movement, focus-integrity, and camera-stability) only align for brief moments in some situations (and on a statistical basis). I usually shoot quite a few in order to hopefully ensure just a handful of candidates for later processing.

DM ... :P
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Thank you. When I first started photography in the early 80's I had someone tell me to shoot as many shots as I could because somewhere in all those shots I might get one or two pictures worth keeping. I shot black and white film, developed it myself, made slop sheets and occasionally found a picture or two. I now do the same thing in the digital age . . . only it's easier.

To the OP . . . I guess I'm lucky. I've never had another photographer put me down because of my choice of equipment. The photographers I have run into have been friendly and helpful.
 
StayClassy said:
StayClassy wrote:
StayClassy said:
Josh152 wrote:
StayClassy said:
Paul B Jones wrote:

If "The brand doesn't F*&%$#G matter, it's the man behind the lens that does!" why did the incident bother you enough to post about it, and on top of that, why did you mention the name of your brand and the brand of your tormenter?

--
Paul B Jones
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulbjones/sets
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Also why is it so important to point out what camera all the images in the post were shot on?
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Why not? I'm proud of my A99, and I'm proud to say that I took those with a Sony.
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But you started your rant with the camera doesn't bleeping matter. So the camera brand made those images possible, not your skill? Thanks for clearing that up! You have provided many with entertainment in this thread, and nothing else.
 
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StayClassy said:
StayClassy wrote:
StayClassy said:
Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

You don't really feel this strongly about the 'issue', do you?
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I do, simply because I'm speaking on behalf of a few other photographers I've seen over the years who were chided by other photographers for using Sony.
I remember when I used to have an xTi (Rebel) and some guy had a Sony a800.
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Now you're making stuff up. sony never made a model called a800.
StayClassy said:
The Canon guys I was with tore him to shreds, and he left the shoot early from all of their crap, and I just stood there quietly and let it happen because I honestly didn't know how to react.
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StayClassy said:
StayClassy wrote:
StayClassy said:
Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

You don't really feel this strongly about the 'issue', do you?
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I do, simply because I'm speaking on behalf of a few other photographers I've seen over the years who were chided by other photographers for using Sony.
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OK; they are dumb for being such brandist zombies. Lots of choice out there to explore and shoot with, each bringing something to the table.
StayClassy said:
I remember when I used to have an xTi (Rebel) and some guy had a Sony a800.
The Canon guys I was with tore him to shreds, and he left the shoot early from all of their crap, and I just stood there quietly and let it happen because I honestly didn't know how to react.
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Harsh. My response would be along the lines of: "Who cares about brands? Enjoy what you are using and get on with it. I should bring my Konica POP out to silence you all.."

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commons.wikimedia.org
 
Detail Man,

Ok I am going to have to mark this with a comment. Just so I can know who to read there post the next time. :)

Love the way you stated this.

One day when you cannot see me. I am going to say this. LOL

+1

HG

Detail Man said:
Detail Man wrote:

"Talent" seems to me like a judgment that others may make when they fail to understand how much patience, perspiration, and prior eliminations took place. "Pros" may be folks who know how to be highly self-critical of their results, and who are wise enough to present only their best efforts.

Nobody really controls the aesthetic druthers of an "audience". Perhaps better not to try to second-guess or cater to such mysteries. Nothing seems more flummoxing than when they fawn over and rave about the particular ones that you personally despise. Reminds one of the limitations surrounding subjective concepts regarding, as well as imposing, "templates of taste".
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StayClassy said:
StayClassy wrote:
StayClassy said:
s majesk wrote:

Or You wouldn't waste your time on trying to make excuses.
Brand names do matter, proof is that it drives the world economy. Buying an off brand like Sony in the dslr market, just proves your lack of experience. The main thing is that every aspiring, no talent artist thinks that they can pick up a camera and create artistic images. But that reality is only in Your own mind, no one else cares, some may give you compliments, but that's usually just being kind. Do you really think your going to impress anyone? Do You think Your images stand out from any other serious amateur? Are You out to prove something? Do you realize just about anyone who takes thousands of pictures, is going to have a percentage of good ones? Do You realize that many of the best photos published were professional accidents or mistakes? We see Images in the media, advertising, TV, everywhere nowadays, their publication is based on good marketing, nothing is original anymore, everything's been done over and over, Your photos are a good example! Just pick up Your camera, whatever it is, and get out and take pictures, for your own edification, if your not happy with that, try a different hobby, or buy new equipment?
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Insecure?
Do you not understand that this has nothing to do with being insecure?
If I can afford the A99 and a few lenses, including a G lens, do you really think that I'm insecure because I chose Sony, when I could easily afford a 5D MKiii and avoid all of this bullsh*t?
No, this is a warning call to Canon and Nikon users who think they are better because of their equipment. I really don't care what people say, but sometimes, you just need to come out and say, "STFU".

--
When people ask me whether I'm a photographer, I tell them that I'm more of a time artist. After all, my art is my ability to freeze time and capture a moment forever.
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What you describe, happens in all professions, happens in all neighbourhoods, all workplaces, etc. Nothing strictly confined to this art form. There will always be the ones that will look down at you for what you have (or don't have). Don't take any notice. Be yourself and be happy with what you do and how you do it, provided you don't hurt anybody else.

I believe that the person makes the photograph and not the equipment. (Having a Rolls Royce doesn't make you a better driver :) )
 
Palimpsest said:
Palimpsest wrote:

Me?

What on earth are you talking about?
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Comment was intended for OP, sorry. He keeps saying equipment does not matter yet if you read his input in other forum threads he makes a thing of it.
 
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