Attacking Sony: Can we take a breather?

Amamba said:

Amamba wrote:

Amamba said:

TiagoReil wrote:

About lack of lenses, I dont think there is a lack of lenses right now. There are a lot of lenses. I can understand someone wanting more, or a special one, but there are a lot of lenses right now. Actually, with the change in roadmap, sony released 1 more lens than what they planned, and sigma and zeiss, and more to come.

Click to expand...

The problem is, there' lots of overlapping options, but a single glaring omission. There's no fast, sharp zoom that could be used in most situations and could be on the camera better half of time.

As I said elsewhere, primes are a specialized tool. Zooms that Sony has are not very good optically, unless you shoot in ideal light conditions. 55-210 actually seems pretty decent, even though AF may not be the best - I don't own one, but all the images I've seen are good. So they have the tele end covered. But the most used range, 17-50 or so, only has 2 kit zooms neither of which really deliver the goods.

Look at Canon, for instance. For cropped sensor, there are Canon 17-50/2.8 IS, Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS, Tamron 17-50/2.8 VR and non-stabilized - all exceptionally sharp throughout the range, and fast enough for inside light. Plus a couple of zooms in same range designed for full frame. Pretty much everyone uses one of these zooms (except people who only shoot primes, or use superzooms, or are happy with a kit lens - but they are not the majority). I am sure that Nikon has the same setup. There's a reason for it - this is the most useful range for most situations on a crop.

Unless a fast zoom is already in the pipeline, I am afraid Sony is simply unwilling to invest in development, which may mean they are ready to get out of mirrorless market and start selling sensors to others. Pure speculation of course.

Click to expand...

Amamba said:

Amamba wrote:

Amamba said:

TiagoReil wrote:

About lack of lenses, I dont think there is a lack of lenses right now. There are a lot of lenses. I can understand someone wanting more, or a special one, but there are a lot of lenses right now. Actually, with the change in roadmap, sony released 1 more lens than what they planned, and sigma and zeiss, and more to come.

Click to expand...

The problem is, there' lots of overlapping options, but a single glaring omission. There's no fast, sharp zoom that could be used in most situations and could be on the camera better half of time.

As I said elsewhere, primes are a specialized tool. Zooms that Sony has are not very good optically, unless you shoot in ideal light conditions. 55-210 actually seems pretty decent, even though AF may not be the best - I don't own one, but all the images I've seen are good. So they have the tele end covered. But the most used range, 17-50 or so, only has 2 kit zooms neither of which really deliver the goods.

Look at Canon, for instance. For cropped sensor, there are Canon 17-50/2.8 IS, Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS, Tamron 17-50/2.8 VR and non-stabilized - all exceptionally sharp throughout the range, and fast enough for inside light. Plus a couple of zooms in same range designed for full frame. Pretty much everyone uses one of these zooms (except people who only shoot primes, or use superzooms, or are happy with a kit lens - but they are not the majority). I am sure that Nikon has the same setup. There's a reason for it - this is the most useful range for most situations on a crop.

Unless a fast zoom is already in the pipeline, I am afraid Sony is simply unwilling to invest in development, which may mean they are ready to get out of mirrorless market and start selling sensors to others. Pure speculation of course.

Click to expand...

dellaaa said:

dellaaa wrote:

IMHO I think this website is frequented by a tiny fraction of the market that actually buy cameras, the hard core user if you will. True there are trolls here, but they exist everywhere and knowledgeable readers can spot them easily.

Most of the posters here, myself included, carp about features that 99% of buyers don't even know exist. Can you image someone in Best Buy asking the clerk if the NEX7 can bracket while using the remote? Good chance that never happened.

I believe this website was instrumental in Sony changing the video button's functionality on the NEX7, and hopefully will push Sony to improve an already good product.

Listening Sony?

Click to expand...

TiagoReil said:

TiagoReil wrote:

TiagoReil said:

Amamba wrote:

TiagoReil said:

TiagoReil wrote:

About lack of lenses, I dont think there is a lack of lenses right now. There are a lot of lenses. I can understand someone wanting more, or a special one, but there are a lot of lenses right now. Actually, with the change in roadmap, sony released 1 more lens than what they planned, and sigma and zeiss, and more to come.

Click to expand...

The problem is, there' lots of overlapping options, but a single glaring omission. There's no fast, sharp zoom that could be used in most situations and could be on the camera better half of time.

As I said elsewhere, primes are a specialized tool. Zooms that Sony has are not very good optically, unless you shoot in ideal light conditions. 55-210 actually seems pretty decent, even though AF may not be the best - I don't own one, but all the images I've seen are good. So they have the tele end covered. But the most used range, 17-50 or so, only has 2 kit zooms neither of which really deliver the goods.

Look at Canon, for instance. For cropped sensor, there are Canon 17-50/2.8 IS, Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS, Tamron 17-50/2.8 VR and non-stabilized - all exceptionally sharp throughout the range, and fast enough for inside light. Plus a couple of zooms in same range designed for full frame. Pretty much everyone uses one of these zooms (except people who only shoot primes, or use superzooms, or are happy with a kit lens - but they are not the majority). I am sure that Nikon has the same setup. There's a reason for it - this is the most useful range for most situations on a crop.

Unless a fast zoom is already in the pipeline, I am afraid Sony is simply unwilling to invest in development, which may mean they are ready to get out of mirrorless market and start selling sensors to others. Pure speculation of course.

Click to expand...

Comparing it to canon is a bit unfair. Canon APS-C line has been there for a lot longer than sony e-mount line.

It should be on the pipeline, it is on the roadmap for end of this year. Still we have no news on exactly what lens will be. Similar to the fuji 1855? (not constant aperture) or 2.8 all along? Will it be as the alpha 1650 2.8? (it is a big lens!) Will they manage to trim it down a bit for the nex (I doubt that).

I may be a bit too positive, but if they do what they promised in this roadmap (and I think it is too late for changes now) we will have something at the end of the year (plus the tele lens) but price and reality may not please everybody.

Click to expand...

Just Having Fun said:

Just Having Fun wrote:

Just Having Fun said:

dellaaa wrote:

IMHO I think this website is frequented by a tiny fraction of the market that actually buy cameras, the hard core user if you will. True there are trolls here, but they exist everywhere and knowledgeable readers can spot them easily.

Most of the posters here, myself included, carp about features that 99% of buyers don't even know exist. Can you image someone in Best Buy asking the clerk if the NEX7 can bracket while using the remote? Good chance that never happened.

I believe this website was instrumental in Sony changing the video button's functionality on the NEX7, and hopefully will push Sony to improve an already good product.

Listening Sony?

Click to expand...

Back when the A55 came out and we found that is was very prone to overheating during video many of us spoke out and complained. Sadly, many here got upset, defended Sony, said there was no issue, attacked posters, etc. I found this actions of some here troubling because we quickly saw threads from users about how they thought there was no issue, bought the camera, and quickly found they were duped. For the record, while I said in many threads there was a problem, I also would give people a list of things they can do to avoid the problem and enjoy their camera. If you knew about the issue in advance rather than denying it, it was easily mitigated.

Thankfully Sony listened. Maybe not to people here, we don't know, but to someone complaining, an in the next SLTs they implemented electronic IS, that I found worked very well, and reduced the issue.

We have to realize these forums are a small universe and will have no effect on sales, but we can let people know in advance what they are buying and they may need to know after their purchase.

Click to expand...

sportyaccordy said:

sportyaccordy wrote:

sportyaccordy said:

Amamba wrote:

sportyaccordy said:

TiagoReil wrote:

About lack of lenses, I dont think there is a lack of lenses right now. There are a lot of lenses. I can understand someone wanting more, or a special one, but there are a lot of lenses right now. Actually, with the change in roadmap, sony released 1 more lens than what they planned, and sigma and zeiss, and more to come.

Click to expand...

The problem is, there' lots of overlapping options, but a single glaring omission. There's no fast, sharp zoom that could be used in most situations and could be on the camera better half of time.

As I said elsewhere, primes are a specialized tool. Zooms that Sony has are not very good optically, unless you shoot in ideal light conditions. 55-210 actually seems pretty decent, even though AF may not be the best - I don't own one, but all the images I've seen are good. So they have the tele end covered. But the most used range, 17-50 or so, only has 2 kit zooms neither of which really deliver the goods.

Look at Canon, for instance. For cropped sensor, there are Canon 17-50/2.8 IS, Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS, Tamron 17-50/2.8 VR and non-stabilized - all exceptionally sharp throughout the range, and fast enough for inside light. Plus a couple of zooms in same range designed for full frame. Pretty much everyone uses one of these zooms (except people who only shoot primes, or use superzooms, or are happy with a kit lens - but they are not the majority). I am sure that Nikon has the same setup. There's a reason for it - this is the most useful range for most situations on a crop.

Unless a fast zoom is already in the pipeline, I am afraid Sony is simply unwilling to invest in development, which may mean they are ready to get out of mirrorless market and start selling sensors to others. Pure speculation of course.

Click to expand...

All of those lenses are for DSLRs and are huge + heavy. Such lenses wouldn't make sense on a small mirrorless platform.

Plus the new power zoom E mount lens is as good as or better than many of the 2.8s as far as sharpness goes. It only loses out in transmission.

Not committing to a fast zoom when they have various fast primes in their lineup (16 2.8, 20 2.8, 24 1.8 CZ, 35 1.8 OSS, 50 1.8 OSS), as well as a platform that enables you to put on any lens you want (as well as an OEM converter with AF) is hardly an abandoning of the platform completely. It's this kind of melodrama that kills a lot of the discussion here. Next to nobody is waiting to jump on the NEX bandwagon but holding out for a 2.8 standard zoom

Click to expand...

sportyaccordy said:

sportyaccordy wrote:

sportyaccordy said:

TiagoReil wrote:

sportyaccordy said:

Amamba wrote:

sportyaccordy said:

TiagoReil wrote:

About lack of lenses, I dont think there is a lack of lenses right now. There are a lot of lenses. I can understand someone wanting more, or a special one, but there are a lot of lenses right now. Actually, with the change in roadmap, sony released 1 more lens than what they planned, and sigma and zeiss, and more to come.

Click to expand...

The problem is, there' lots of overlapping options, but a single glaring omission. There's no fast, sharp zoom that could be used in most situations and could be on the camera better half of time.

As I said elsewhere, primes are a specialized tool. Zooms that Sony has are not very good optically, unless you shoot in ideal light conditions. 55-210 actually seems pretty decent, even though AF may not be the best - I don't own one, but all the images I've seen are good. So they have the tele end covered. But the most used range, 17-50 or so, only has 2 kit zooms neither of which really deliver the goods.

Look at Canon, for instance. For cropped sensor, there are Canon 17-50/2.8 IS, Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS, Tamron 17-50/2.8 VR and non-stabilized - all exceptionally sharp throughout the range, and fast enough for inside light. Plus a couple of zooms in same range designed for full frame. Pretty much everyone uses one of these zooms (except people who only shoot primes, or use superzooms, or are happy with a kit lens - but they are not the majority). I am sure that Nikon has the same setup. There's a reason for it - this is the most useful range for most situations on a crop.

Unless a fast zoom is already in the pipeline, I am afraid Sony is simply unwilling to invest in development, which may mean they are ready to get out of mirrorless market and start selling sensors to others. Pure speculation of course.

Click to expand...

Comparing it to canon is a bit unfair. Canon APS-C line has been there for a lot longer than sony e-mount line.

It should be on the pipeline, it is on the roadmap for end of this year. Still we have no news on exactly what lens will be. Similar to the fuji 1855? (not constant aperture) or 2.8 all along? Will it be as the alpha 1650 2.8? (it is a big lens!) Will they manage to trim it down a bit for the nex (I doubt that).

I may be a bit too positive, but if they do what they promised in this roadmap (and I think it is too late for changes now) we will have something at the end of the year (plus the tele lens) but price and reality may not please everybody.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure it's coming. Combining the aperture necessary with all the mechanisms of a zoom requires a big lens. An SEL1655 is just slightly smaller than a DSLR 3x kit lens. I highly doubt they would be able to keep a lens that is 2 stops faster at the tele end anywhere close to the same size. I don't think it's that big of a deal anyway.

Click to expand...

Amamba said:

Amamba wrote:

There are exaggerated complaints and trolls, or exaggerated praise and fanboys with any brand or product. That's part of life.

I may be wrong but IMHO mirrorless cameras are not for the beginners. If you don't want to change lenses why buy a camera with an interchangeable lens in first place ? I think it's a perfect camera for someone who wants to have 80% of DSLR at 50% the size and weight. And Nex is a solid performer - cheaper than Fuji, better sensor than Oly (I am overly simplifying of course). Their biggest problem is lack of lenses, and unless they fix this eventually, they would lose out as Oly improves their bodies.That's a simple as it gets.

Actually their biggest problem is the lack of interest in mirrorless, and they're in the same boat as the other guys here. It's not the bad reviews of one brand, it's industry wide marketing failure. People buy iPhones, people buy P&S cameras, and when they think they want to become more involved in photography they buy DSLR because that's what pros use. Very few even look at the mirrorless because they don't know anything about them, they are expensive but look like a P&S. Marketing is what that brand manager should be concerned with.

Click to expand...

TiagoReil said:

TiagoReil wrote:

TiagoReil said:

sportyaccordy wrote:

TiagoReil said:

Amamba wrote:

TiagoReil said:

TiagoReil wrote:

About lack of lenses, I dont think there is a lack of lenses right now. There are a lot of lenses. I can understand someone wanting more, or a special one, but there are a lot of lenses right now. Actually, with the change in roadmap, sony released 1 more lens than what they planned, and sigma and zeiss, and more to come.

Click to expand...

The problem is, there' lots of overlapping options, but a single glaring omission. There's no fast, sharp zoom that could be used in most situations and could be on the camera better half of time.

As I said elsewhere, primes are a specialized tool. Zooms that Sony has are not very good optically, unless you shoot in ideal light conditions. 55-210 actually seems pretty decent, even though AF may not be the best - I don't own one, but all the images I've seen are good. So they have the tele end covered. But the most used range, 17-50 or so, only has 2 kit zooms neither of which really deliver the goods.

Look at Canon, for instance. For cropped sensor, there are Canon 17-50/2.8 IS, Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS, Tamron 17-50/2.8 VR and non-stabilized - all exceptionally sharp throughout the range, and fast enough for inside light. Plus a couple of zooms in same range designed for full frame. Pretty much everyone uses one of these zooms (except people who only shoot primes, or use superzooms, or are happy with a kit lens - but they are not the majority). I am sure that Nikon has the same setup. There's a reason for it - this is the most useful range for most situations on a crop.

Unless a fast zoom is already in the pipeline, I am afraid Sony is simply unwilling to invest in development, which may mean they are ready to get out of mirrorless market and start selling sensors to others. Pure speculation of course.

Click to expand...

All of those lenses are for DSLRs and are huge + heavy. Such lenses wouldn't make sense on a small mirrorless platform.

Plus the new power zoom E mount lens is as good as or better than many of the 2.8s as far as sharpness goes. It only loses out in transmission.

Not committing to a fast zoom when they have various fast primes in their lineup (16 2.8, 20 2.8, 24 1.8 CZ, 35 1.8 OSS, 50 1.8 OSS), as well as a platform that enables you to put on any lens you want (as well as an OEM converter with AF) is hardly an abandoning of the platform completely. It's this kind of melodrama that kills a lot of the discussion here. Next to nobody is waiting to jump on the NEX bandwagon but holding out for a 2.8 standard zoom

Click to expand...

Melodrama. That is a better word than the ones I've been using. And it is very accurate. Would you let me use it????

Agree on the rest of your opinion. See the fuji tele zoom. It is huge. WOuld I like to have one, for sure, Would I get one for my mirrorless,... mmm, maybe no. Would sony sell a lot of those to their customers. Definitively no! Some people here, but the big nex buyers are going for small.

Click to expand...

Mel Snyder said:

Mel Snyder wrote:

Mel Snyder said:

TiagoReil wrote:

Mel Snyder said:

sportyaccordy wrote:

Mel Snyder said:

Amamba wrote:

Mel Snyder said:

TiagoReil wrote:

About lack of lenses, I dont think there is a lack of lenses right now. There are a lot of lenses. I can understand someone wanting more, or a special one, but there are a lot of lenses right now. Actually, with the change in roadmap, sony released 1 more lens than what they planned, and sigma and zeiss, and more to come.

Click to expand...

The problem is, there' lots of overlapping options, but a single glaring omission. There's no fast, sharp zoom that could be used in most situations and could be on the camera better half of time.

As I said elsewhere, primes are a specialized tool. Zooms that Sony has are not very good optically, unless you shoot in ideal light conditions. 55-210 actually seems pretty decent, even though AF may not be the best - I don't own one, but all the images I've seen are good. So they have the tele end covered. But the most used range, 17-50 or so, only has 2 kit zooms neither of which really deliver the goods.

Look at Canon, for instance. For cropped sensor, there are Canon 17-50/2.8 IS, Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS, Tamron 17-50/2.8 VR and non-stabilized - all exceptionally sharp throughout the range, and fast enough for inside light. Plus a couple of zooms in same range designed for full frame. Pretty much everyone uses one of these zooms (except people who only shoot primes, or use superzooms, or are happy with a kit lens - but they are not the majority). I am sure that Nikon has the same setup. There's a reason for it - this is the most useful range for most situations on a crop.

Unless a fast zoom is already in the pipeline, I am afraid Sony is simply unwilling to invest in development, which may mean they are ready to get out of mirrorless market and start selling sensors to others. Pure speculation of course.

Click to expand...

All of those lenses are for DSLRs and are huge + heavy. Such lenses wouldn't make sense on a small mirrorless platform.

Plus the new power zoom E mount lens is as good as or better than many of the 2.8s as far as sharpness goes. It only loses out in transmission.

Not committing to a fast zoom when they have various fast primes in their lineup (16 2.8, 20 2.8, 24 1.8 CZ, 35 1.8 OSS, 50 1.8 OSS), as well as a platform that enables you to put on any lens you want (as well as an OEM converter with AF) is hardly an abandoning of the platform completely. It's this kind of melodrama that kills a lot of the discussion here. Next to nobody is waiting to jump on the NEX bandwagon but holding out for a 2.8 standard zoom

Click to expand...

Melodrama. That is a better word than the ones I've been using. And it is very accurate. Would you let me use it????

Agree on the rest of your opinion. See the fuji tele zoom. It is huge. WOuld I like to have one, for sure, Would I get one for my mirrorless,... mmm, maybe no. Would sony sell a lot of those to their customers. Definitively no! Some people here, but the big nex buyers are going for small.

Click to expand...

"Mel"-o-drama....?:-D I "resemble" that!

Click to expand...

Amamba said:

Amamba wrote:

Criticism, just like praise, is healthy. Is servers as feedback for the company that is willing t kid listen, and helps potential users to make purchase decisions. Off course one must be capable of critical thinking.

Moreover any brand on any forum gets bashed for real, exaggerated or imaginary flaws. This is rivaled only by the amount of equally deserved or underserved praise. I repeat, any brand gets essentially the same treatment, on this forum and elsewhere.

If any brand is getting impacted by the negative remarks more than others, that's an indication that they are doing something wrong. They can react and improve, or do nothing and eventually be forced to kill the brand. Asking users to restrain from negative comments is not doing the brand any favors. Nor any brand deserves this.

I will continue to praise the things I like, and be negative about things I find lacking. If Sony can't make money on Nex line and end up killing the brand, it's because of their inability to compete in this segment, same goes for Oly or Fuji or Canon etc. All brands get their own share of complaints, it's what they decide to do about them that matters. I am not married to Sony nor I work for them, I don't have to watch what I say, good or bad.

Click to expand...

Mel Snyder said:

Mel Snyder wrote:

Mel Snyder said:

hyenadog wrote:

Mel,

At the end of the day ANYONE moving up to the NEX from a point and shoot will be happy with an NEX and a PZ working properly - for many of these people it's all they will ever want .. Bokeh lighting composition etc are iirrelevant to them. The NEX and PZ will give them great pictures (and superb video) in a sexy super compact package. they will never buy any other Sony lens/addon for it other than possibly a case and it will take lovely family and holiday pictures/videos for the rest of its life and everyone will be happy and the owner will praise the NEX to high heaven to all that will listen.

I would guess the biggest slice of NEX owners are those interested in photography but have only messed around a little with a superzoom on manual etc .. they are probably in the market for a family camera but would like to learn and wouldnt mind too much dropping the cost of the camera over time in a couple of extra lenses they needed - Probably the biggest slice of NEX users .. these are the people Sony needs to target with cheap decent OIS/AF primes particularly an 85mm pref f2 or f2.8 at a push

You then have a much much smaller slice of real enthusiasts and quite capable photographers that want a smaller camera for home/semi pro use than a big bulky dslr they carry (or have carried) around all day .. these are the guys that dont mind dropping far more than the camera on a Zeiss lens or two

In my case I was a serious amateur as a kid (so thats manual film SLR and several lenses, filters etc) both in and out of my own little darkroom under the stairs ! .. the NEX and PZ tempted me back many years to play around a little again and spend far more time doing something that I really enjoy on London Streets than i really should ! and thats with a 30 odd year old manual lens on the front of it

.. I do love the NEX, would love a working properly PZ (if i get one) and would buy reasonably priced short tele prime lenses if they made them to suit what I use the camera for outside family use ..

Instead I had to endure this weekend buying a premium priced supposedly mint fungus free nikon 100mm E mount for the NEX only to find out it was full of fungus and then send it back and get my money back ... I go through all of this because I love the NEX but without the short tele primes it's pretty limited .. next it will be paying 4x the price of the E100mm at a local Nikon dealer for a decent 85mm or 105mm Nikon AI/AIS rather than chance fleabay again and I'll probably pick up a 50f1.8D if they give me a decent deal on them together .. it's ridiculous really but i love the NEX and the only other alternative is to sell the NEX and get a small APSc Dslr and change platform. (which is another reason to go the nikon or canon lens on adaptor route)

So yes the NEX product manager/senior mgmt deserves a good hard kick up the rear for destroying the fabulous work the NEX design and support team do and producing a severely limited or perhaps a stillborn platform.

I hope now that long term the 7 is dead that we get soon at least an 85mm low cost sony prime .. roll on September I have my fingers x - if its to be a SEL Zeiss 85mm then its the Nikon lenses for me if Sony announce a resonably priced 85mm Sony instead well its Sony lenses for me and I'm locked in to NEX ...

Click to expand...

I feel your pain re the eBay route. Since I buy from B&H, if I ever got a bum lens, I'd swap it out effortlessly.

As for paying too much locally for a used lenses from a local dealer, I'd strongly suggest we help each other out by buying for each other on our local Craig's List. I've just bought a 135mm f3.5 Nikon rangefinder for a forum member in Holland, and will ship it to him this afternoon, along with an adapter I bought for him on eBay - and he'll paypal me for the cost.

If you see something on the Boston Craig's List that looks appealing, private message me. I bought a pristine 85mm f2 AiS ($50) and a 105mm f2.5 AiS in similar condition for $100. Check the Canon part of this listing. and others.

Click to expand...

Mel Snyder said:

Mel Snyder wrote:
Regularly, you see newbies come onto the forum who've never seen or held a NEX, but are festooned with fully formed negatives about the kit lenses. Just where do you think they got them?

Click to expand...

NEXFULLFRAME said:

NEXFULLFRAME wrote:

To summarize, the argument that's being made is that excessive complaining can be counter-productive because it costs sales and the opportunity to grow the system.

Click to expand...

TiagoReil said:

TiagoReil wrote:

Melodrama. That is a better word than the ones I've been using. And it is very accurate. Would you let me use it????

Agree on the rest of your opinion. See the fuji tele zoom. It is huge. WOuld I like to have one, for sure, Would I get one for my mirrorless,... mmm, maybe no. Would sony sell a lot of those to their customers. Definitively no! Some people here, but the big nex buyers are going for small.

Click to expand...

sportyaccordy said:

sportyaccordy wrote:

sportyaccordy said:

Just Having Fun wrote:

sportyaccordy said:

dellaaa wrote:

IMHO I think this website is frequented by a tiny fraction of the market that actually buy cameras, the hard core user if you will. True there are trolls here, but they exist everywhere and knowledgeable readers can spot them easily.

Most of the posters here, myself included, carp about features that 99% of buyers don't even know exist. Can you image someone in Best Buy asking the clerk if the NEX7 can bracket while using the remote? Good chance that never happened.

I believe this website was instrumental in Sony changing the video button's functionality on the NEX7, and hopefully will push Sony to improve an already good product.

Listening Sony?

Click to expand...

Back when the A55 came out and we found that is was very prone to overheating during video many of us spoke out and complained. Sadly, many here got upset, defended Sony, said there was no issue, attacked posters, etc. I found this actions of some here troubling because we quickly saw threads from users about how they thought there was no issue, bought the camera, and quickly found they were duped. For the record, while I said in many threads there was a problem, I also would give people a list of things they can do to avoid the problem and enjoy their camera. If you knew about the issue in advance rather than denying it, it was easily mitigated.

Thankfully Sony listened. Maybe not to people here, we don't know, but to someone complaining, an in the next SLTs they implemented electronic IS, that I found worked very well, and reduced the issue.

We have to realize these forums are a small universe and will have no effect on sales, but we can let people know in advance what they are buying and they may need to know after their purchase.

Click to expand...

An operating issue that could result in damage to the camera body is hardly comparable to much of the complaining; which mainly centers around the lack of availability of bodies, glass and features there is really no demand for.

Click to expand...

tomtom50 said:

tomtom50 wrote:

tomtom50 said:

NEXFULLFRAME wrote:

To summarize, the argument that's being made is that excessive complaining can be counter-productive because it costs sales and the opportunity to grow the system.

Click to expand...

Sony can read these forums. I am not sure they do, but they can.

The NEX forum does not strike me as more negative than other forums, so Sony is not at a competitive disadvantage because of an especially hostile forum.

If Sony decides to ignore user feedback (much of it is well-taken criticism) their sales might suffer, and that is as it should be.

If Sony decides to learn from user feedback their sales might improve, and that too is as it should be.

I see no reason to suppress valid criticism to shield Sony from the consequences of bad decisions.

Overall Sony makes a lot of good decisions. Sony is the single-largest mirrorless brand (combined m43 is a bit larger) and they were not first out. That is impressive. The SLT experiment is brave if not a huge sales success.

Click to expand...

tomtom50 said:

Both RX cameras are terrific and I believe sell well.

Click to expand...

tomtom50 said:

We give Sony credit for their successes, should Sony not hear that my NEX has inferior controls compared to my RX100? Lapses which could be fixed with a hardware update? Should Sony not hear that the lack of a normal range fast pancake hurts NEX because it is such an attractive combination and offered by all competitors?

Sony listened to the criticism of the original NEX, and took controls from terrible to OK in a firmware update. Sony listened to criticism that NEX lenses were too big, and brought out a very useful pancake zoom. Sony listened to criticism that NEX had too few lenses and partnered with Zeiss and some very good (although very expensive) lenses came out. Now Sony is supposedly getting lens design assistance from Olympus, and perhaps the number of reasonably priced lenses will increase.

Click to expand...

NEXFULLFRAME said:

NEXFULLFRAME wrote:

It's good that SONY hears. It's bad that the general public hear things that are a misrepresentation. My reference point here is on general forums when someone asks about NEX and gets told to buy a m4/3 camera instead because it's a system aimed at photographers and has lenses. I've seen this happen enough to know it's a pattern.

Click to expand...

Mel Snyder said:

Mel Snyder wrote:

Click to expand...

Mel Snyder said:

My only purpose was to point out that making negative comments on the forum drive away people contemplating purchase - and those lost sales risk dissuading Sony from investing more heavily in the line.

Click to expand...

franzel said:

franzel wrote:

franzel said:

Mel Snyder wrote:

My only purpose was to point out that making negative comments on the forum drive away people contemplating purchase - and those lost sales risk dissuading Sony from investing more heavily in the line.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ .

Negative comments on web forums might have led to the SEL 1650, which is a very bad lens, but exactly what the masses asked for .

At the same time, the user interface and firmware is the worst of any camera capable of decent IQ (MFT and larger) - which never has been changed significantly (no less would suffice).

The Nex is great in many respects : lenses, size, weight, sensor .
However, if the UI isn't getting changed from the ground up, and very soon, the Nex will be going nowhere .

Click to expand...