A very different D800 review

I use several software suites, from Adobe, Nikon, DxO, Raw Therapee, CaptureOne and find that LightRoom is fast versatile and simple but does being that it uses Adobe's ACR as the rendering engine, it just is not as good in rendering NEF files as the Nikon software. So, I use LR 4 for first import and evaluation and process all those which I decide to keep but are not top images. The very few that get printed large are opened in Nikon Capture NX2 and rendered and basic camera adjustments are made. Then they can be further processed if needed by pixel level editing in Adobe Photoshop CS6. Adobe is very good handling the print functions. From NX2, if later post processing is to be done, usually not needed, I save a copy as 16bit TIFF for export to Photoshop CS6.

There are differences in rendering raw files and comparing, I prefer how Nikon does it, and how it incorporates the camera settings in the initial rendering so little if anything has to be done. With LR, you start with a rendering that does not reflect camera settings so to get "up to" the look of finished image more adjustments are needed.

The D800 renders colors and extended DR wonderfully so many of the shots need no adjustment. The AWB is seldom fooled, even in tricky mixed light scenes. There is so much detail residing in deep shadows that the range of adjustment possible is astounding. I shot an event last Friday, in a large private party in a dance club. I was shooting with flash and with ambient light in about equal numbers and twice took shots in manual and mistakenly did not have the flash on. The frames came out black but the histogram showed a bit of data on the far left wall of the graph. No problem. In post, those two shots were salvaged and used on the event's web site and few people would ever be able to see they were exposed 5 stops under. Color and detail where there.

The reviewer was right, with the D800, you shoot less, at least I do, since it is always in the back of my mind how large each file is, I self edit more, just like film, before hitting the shutter. The results show, with fewer deleted files and more keepers. From the event, that lasted 6 hours, I shoot only 248 frames and all but 3 were turned over the event organizers for printing. Normally with lesser cameras I would have taken 600-1000 frames and kept 100-150.
 
chlamchowder wrote:

It always annoys me a bit when people make a claim like "ISO 6400 is for shooting black cats at night" or "ISOs above 1600 are for shooting in caves" or something similarly ridiculous.
Or that 36 MPs is for shooting billboards.
 
Nor decide what we like with a hive mind. The guy has his opinions, they may not be the same as yours but so what? It's not a comprehensive review, it's a field report of one mans experience using a dslr like he would his rangefinder.

Why should you care if he thinks iso 400 or 800 is the limit? Will this tank nikon or stop you from shooting at iso 6400 when required? Of course not. Move on.
 
chlamchowder wrote:

It always annoys me a bit when people make a claim like "ISO 6400 is for shooting black cats at night" or "ISOs above 1600 are for shooting in caves" or something similarly ridiculous.

High ISOs are not for shooting in the dark, IMO. If I wanted to photograph a cave, I'd set ISO 100, f/8, and bulb mode...and then keep the shutter open for as long as I need to get a properly exposed image. The cave isn't going to run away, so I don't care if the exposure takes 30 minutes.

I think that high ISOs are really for getting very fast shutter speeds in non-ideal lighting conditions. For example, when shooting basketball in a gym that's not so well lit, good ISO 6400 performance is awesome. Or, on a dance floor with the lights dimmed, the ISO range pretty much starts at ISO 6400 if you want sharp pictures and don't want to get in everyone's faces with a f/1.4 lens (because f/1.4 lenses aren't long enough).

I guess my standards are different, but I really disagree with his assessment. I have a D600, which has noise performance that's pretty much identical to the D800 (when the D800's images are downsized to match the D600's resolution). I believe anyone who thinks ISO 800 borders on unusable has pretty ridiculous expectations. It's not going to be as clean as ISO 100, but really...how is that tiny pinch of noise going to affect anything? ISO 3200 or 6400 produces decent enough results for most purposes. Even ISO 12800 is usable with a bit of care.

Long story short - I think people get so afraid of tiny bits of noise that they avoid high ISOs and lose a lot of opportunity. When I used the Sony a580 (a 16 MP APS-C cam), I didn't hesitate to hit ISO 6400, or even 12800 if the situation called for it. A bit of noise is better than no picture at all.
+10

Spot on

Andy
 
MRM4350 wrote:
golf1982 wrote:
windplr wrote:

The author seems to really prefer Capture NX over Lightroom for processing NEF files. I shoot a D600 and have been pretty happy with LR, but am I missing something by not using Capture NX?
You are missing a lot

slow, poorly designed U I and bugs.

Perhaps i am doing it a disservice as i have not used it in a while, but last time i tried it it was awfull!!! i use aperture and find it gives excellent results
You probably are, but I just wanted to point out that "aperture" is an apple product, and not everyone uses macs.

These kinds of statements about products are personal opinion only and should toned down, as not everyone finds them to be true. You didn't like Capture NX, and that is all you should have said.I
 
bikinchris wrote:
The fact that so many people complan about it confuses me.
It doesn't surprise me that people complain, but it's extremely weird that a Leica M9 user / rangefinder enthusiast who must use focus and compose technique for almost every shot, would pick AF-point coverage of any DSLR as his main "problem" with the camera under scrutiny.
 
Nor decide what we like with a hive mind. The guy has his opinions, they may not be the same as yours but so what? It's not a comprehensive review, it's a field report of one mans experience using a dslr like he would his rangefinder.
That's very true. I respect his opinions - I'm definitely not going to attack him personally for what he says.
Why should you care if he thinks iso 400 or 800 is the limit? Will this tank nikon or stop you from shooting at iso 6400 when required? Of course not. Move on.
I don't mind that he thinks ISO 800 is the limit.

But I personally can't understand that (from my experience with the D600). I can undeniably see noise if I pixel peep an ISO 800 shot, but it's so light that I can't see how it'd be relevant. Printing a billboard isn't the answer - if an ISO 800 shot was used to print a billboard, the noise would still be near invisible because no one will be viewing the billboard from a meter away.

The only purpose that I can see being affected by that light pixel level noise is if some serious cropping is involved. And by that, I don't mean cropping to change composition, or taking a portrait crop out of a landscape shot. I mean taking a 50mm lens, and using it as a 200 or 300mm lens by cropping. But if you're doing that, you should just get a real telephoto...

Anyways, that's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree. I would actually be very interested if someone could demonstrate an application (short of using a 50mm as a 200-300mm lens via cropping) for which ISO 800 on the D600/800 is too noisy.

My personal highest comfortable ISO is 6400...but I'll happily go above if the situation calls for it.
 
chlamchowder wrote:

It always annoys me a bit when people make a claim like "ISO 6400 is for shooting black cats at night" or "ISOs above 1600 are for shooting in caves" or something similarly ridiculous.

High ISOs are not for shooting in the dark, IMO. If I wanted to photograph a cave, I'd set ISO 100, f/8, and bulb mode...and then keep the shutter open for as long as I need to get a properly exposed image. The cave isn't going to run away, so I don't care if the exposure takes 30 minutes.

I think that high ISOs are really for getting very fast shutter speeds in non-ideal lighting conditions. For example, when shooting basketball in a gym that's not so well lit, good ISO 6400 performance is awesome. Or, on a dance floor with the lights dimmed, the ISO range pretty much starts at ISO 6400 if you want sharp pictures and don't want to get in everyone's faces with a f/1.4 lens (because f/1.4 lenses aren't long enough).

I guess my standards are different, but I really disagree with his assessment. I have a D600, which has noise performance that's pretty much identical to the D800 (when the D800's images are downsized to match the D600's resolution). I believe anyone who thinks ISO 800 borders on unusable has pretty ridiculous expectations. It's not going to be as clean as ISO 100, but really...how is that tiny pinch of noise going to affect anything? ISO 3200 or 6400 produces decent enough results for most purposes. Even ISO 12800 is usable with a bit of care.

Long story short - I think people get so afraid of tiny bits of noise that they avoid high ISOs and lose a lot of opportunity. When I used the Sony a580 (a 16 MP APS-C cam), I didn't hesitate to hit ISO 6400, or even 12800 if the situation called for it. A bit of noise is better than no picture at all.
Totally agree.

I'm use to the D2x's limit of ISO 800. The D800e is just warming up at ISO 800 and I now shot with it up to ISO 6400. LR5's noise reduction does a marvelous job of cleaning up the image. To each their own though.

BTW, in a true cave, there is no light, even after 30 minutes, you will still have a black image!

Regards,
 
Totally agree.

I'm use to the D2x's limit of ISO 800. The D800e is just warming up at ISO 800 and I now shot with it up to ISO 6400. LR5's noise reduction does a marvelous job of cleaning up the image. To each their own though.
That's true too. A pinch of NR (not even luminance NR, just color NR) can make a high ISO image usable. ISO 6400 on the D600 is definitely usable, and I'd assume the same on the D800. Past ISO 12800, though, some serious post processing is often needed.

I've never used a D2x, although I'd like to try. I like trying out different cameras, to get an idea of what different tools can bring. It might sound crazy, but I even swapped cameras with a friend for a week (she had a D50 and I have a D600). Shooting with the D50 was quite an interesting experience. It was far more capable than I thought it would be.
BTW, in a true cave, there is no light, even after 30 minutes, you will still have a black image!
Then I'd set ISO 800, and keep the shutter open for two hours. Or even four hours (although IQ starts to degrade after two hours if you look closely).
 
It always annoys me a bit when people make a claim like "ISO 6400 is for shooting black cats at night" or "ISOs above 1600 are for shooting in caves" or something similarly ridiculous.
Or that 36 MPs is for shooting billboards
The only application I can come up with (personally) for 24 or 36 MP is cropping. You can get pretty ridiculous with that, turning a fixed 50mm lens stopped down (so it's sharp enough) into a 200mm or 300mm lens. Then, the noise at ISO 800 argument might be interesting to me.

But if you're cropping like that regularly, IMO, it's about time to just put on (or get) a real telephoto.
 
chlamchowder wrote:
It always annoys me a bit when people make a claim like "ISO 6400 is for shooting black cats at night" or "ISOs above 1600 are for shooting in caves" or something similarly ridiculous.
Or that 36 MPs is for shooting billboards
The only application I can come up with (personally) for 24 or 36 MP is cropping. You can get pretty ridiculous with that, turning a fixed 50mm lens stopped down (so it's sharp enough) into a 200mm or 300mm lens. Then, the noise at ISO 800 argument might be interesting to me.

But if you're cropping like that regularly, IMO, it's about time to just put on (or get) a real telephoto.
If you still have a D700, set up a test with it and the D800 with the same lens on a scene with a large amount of detail. Down-size both resulting images to your most commonly used image size (assuming that is not a 4x6). You will see a big difference in captured detail between the two certainly at 100% but also in this downsized image. The D800 will retain more of its captured detail after the downsizing. These two cameras will provide the starkest differentiation in captured detail but you can also see the diference between a D800 and a D3x. Without doing this, I don't know how folks can train their viewing palate to see this detail.

As for cropping, up to 50% of my images get cropped. Many are cropped just to adjust the horizon. But, I do a lot of hiking to obtain my images and there are just so many lenses one can carry on a hike (unless one is a celebrity photographer with an entourage who can carry the kit for you). :) Having a 24-70 and being able to crop "responsibly" for "reach" is a big plus. So, cropping is the same as printing big right?
 
Rick Knepper wrote:
You will see a big difference in captured detail between the two certainly at 100% but also in this downsized image......Without doing this, I don't know how folks can train their viewing palate to see this detail.
Train their "viewing palate"? I think using a loupe to judge a photograph is a great way to train your "pixel peeping" palate, but it is an anathema to photography. Try looking at a cartier bresson at 100% some time. They look terrible! Does this mean the photograph is subpar or the camera is less than?
 
Not bad review...
 
Toccata47 wrote:
Rick Knepper wrote:
You will see a big difference in captured detail between the two certainly at 100% but also in this downsized image......Without doing this, I don't know how folks can train their viewing palate to see this detail.
Train their "viewing palate"? I think using a loupe to judge a photograph is a great way to train your "pixel peeping" palate, but it is an anathema to photography. Try looking at a cartier bresson at 100% some time. They look terrible! Does this mean the photograph is subpar or the camera is less than?
You apparently have no idea what the conversation is about. And offering a variation of what I suggested does not repudiate my point. You get a F in debate.

And lastly, Bresson? Please. How anout Ansel. Kick's Bresson's butt every time. (See how silly this can get?)

--
Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".
 
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