K Joseph
Senior Member
Dominic,
What would happen if you were to use a 'dead' pair of CR123's as your dummy battery?
What would happen if you were to use a 'dead' pair of CR123's as your dummy battery?
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New power system for SD9
- Thread starter petertsg
- Start date
Dominic Groß
Veteran Member
would not work, cause you need a 5th cell in there. Maybe you get remove the chemicals from the CR and use them as skeleton. This was possible for the CRs my old SA300 used cause those CRs had a plastic skeleton. I am 99% sure that most CR123 don't have that.... Anyway the dummy you need just needs to fill the gap between the length of an AA and the length of 2 CRs. Furthermore it serves as isolator and has the contact on it.
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Does anyone know what the minimum plateau voltage is before the SD-9 cuts out? My old Olympus E-10 would shut down at about 4 volts or less (assuming the cells were in series configuration to power the camera). That was always a problem because as the cells were charged and recharged, the batteries never retraced the original power curve and tended to give fewer and fewer shots despite the fact that the final recharge voltage got up to the what the battery was when it was new. .
http://www.sd9.250x.com/sd9_power_new/
I have no connected the 5th cell to the D part as well, no more
false readings and everything is still removable within seconds and
without opening / modifiying the body...
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Dominic Groß
Veteran Member
Well I can't remeber the exact values, they are somewhere hidden in this forum where I posted them a longer time ago.
The Analog Part with the CRs switched off between 4.5 and 4.8V, the D part at 4-4.5V and using the DC conector it was around 5V (if we consider a diode that sets us back 0.7V on the DC input the D part would switch off at 4.3V).
The effect you mention is not that bad with nimh and with a charger that discharges the batteries if they are still to full before loading you will not have it (for example the black brick like ansmann behind the laptop in my charging setup (see some posting above) can do this). However consider that a nimh holds 90% of its capacity at its working point (1.2 - 1.25V) and if it goes down to 1.1 - 1.0 (which is the critical area before you run out of power) is maybe has 5% of the capacity left and is really close to the point at which it is empty. The range between the working point and the point at which it is empty is really close. Not like the huge gap a Li-Ion could produce (starts at 4.2 (4.3) "works" at 3.6(3.7) and starts to get into deep discharging trouble at 2.8 (2.9)). My Batteries are nearly completly emptied by the SD9, my charger never discharged them before loading after the SD9 said they are empty. With the 5 Batterie setup it could be possible, by ignoring all warnings (like false reading, indicators going to half full and flashing) to deep discharge (overdischarge) the nimhs...
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
The Analog Part with the CRs switched off between 4.5 and 4.8V, the D part at 4-4.5V and using the DC conector it was around 5V (if we consider a diode that sets us back 0.7V on the DC input the D part would switch off at 4.3V).
The effect you mention is not that bad with nimh and with a charger that discharges the batteries if they are still to full before loading you will not have it (for example the black brick like ansmann behind the laptop in my charging setup (see some posting above) can do this). However consider that a nimh holds 90% of its capacity at its working point (1.2 - 1.25V) and if it goes down to 1.1 - 1.0 (which is the critical area before you run out of power) is maybe has 5% of the capacity left and is really close to the point at which it is empty. The range between the working point and the point at which it is empty is really close. Not like the huge gap a Li-Ion could produce (starts at 4.2 (4.3) "works" at 3.6(3.7) and starts to get into deep discharging trouble at 2.8 (2.9)). My Batteries are nearly completly emptied by the SD9, my charger never discharged them before loading after the SD9 said they are empty. With the 5 Batterie setup it could be possible, by ignoring all warnings (like false reading, indicators going to half full and flashing) to deep discharge (overdischarge) the nimhs...
--http://www.sd9.250x.com/sd9_power_new/
I have no connected the 5th cell to the D part as well, no more
false readings and everything is still removable within seconds and
without opening / modifiying the body...
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
I've got a total of five charging units, and I haven't noticed that any of them show much difference in performance. Two of them perform a deep discharge prior to charging, and it just didn't seem to help. I've also tried the old trick of cooling the batteries prior to charging. I've also tried discharging the batteries by using them to power a flashlight to insure a full discharge. It always seems to come out about the same. Of course, if the SD-9 can operate at lower voltages, that's great. I may not encounter the inconvenience that I did with the E-10.
The effect you mention is not that bad with nimh and with a charger
that discharges the batteries if they are still to full before
loading you will not have it (for example the black brick like
ansmann behind the laptop in my charging setup (see some posting
above) can do this). However consider that a nimh holds 90% of its
capacity at its working point (1.2 - 1.25V) and if it goes down to
1.1 - 1.0 (which is the critical area before you run out of power)
is maybe has 5% of the capacity left and is really close to the
point at which it is empty. The range between the working point and
the point at which it is empty is really close. Not like the huge
gap a Li-Ion could produce (starts at 4.2 (4.3) "works" at 3.6(3.7)
and starts to get into deep discharging trouble at 2.8 (2.9)). My
Batteries are nearly completly emptied by the SD9, my charger never
discharged them before loading after the SD9 said they are empty.
With the 5 Batterie setup it could be possible, by ignoring all
warnings (like false reading, indicators going to half full and
flashing) to deep discharge (overdischarge) the nimhs...
--http://www.sd9.250x.com/sd9_power_new/
I have no connected the 5th cell to the D part as well, no more
false readings and everything is still removable within seconds and
without opening / modifiying the body...
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
weszp
Active member
If I had SD9 I would done it similar but but more secure way.http://www.sd9.250x.com/sd9_power_new/
I have no connected the 5th cell to the D part as well, no more
false readings and everything is still removable within seconds and
without opening / modifiying the body...
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
If You looked the specification of CR123 batteries You should notice very high discharge current (standard-10mA, max. continuous-1500mA and pulse-3500mA). So I am afraid Your 5 AA cell connected in series will never be able to replace those two sets of factory installed batteries.
Yes, You get the right voltage (nicely than, why make any unnecesary demage to the camera). During the power hungry task you may overload this battery to the point, baterry voltage drop below minimum required for normal operation of the camera. Beside life of rechargeable baterry become drasticly shorter.
My idea is to put a Sanyo HR-4/3AU 3500-4000mAh 1.2 V rechargeable cell.
Which will easly fit in that compartment. Size of compartment 17mm X 69mmm, new cell size 17mm X 67.5mm. So there is about 1.5 mm room for brass washer -conntacts for interconnecting wires. And now I would put power grip and made the rest the way was done in your modification.
Sorry for bad english and fill free to correct me.
Dominic Groß
Veteran Member
I checked it an the max power the SD9 uses with my 4 Nimh solution, Digital part and Analog part consumed at max 1500mA together. The Sanyos can handle this (they have to in model cars, planes etc.)If I had SD9 I would done it similar but but more secure way.http://www.sd9.250x.com/sd9_power_new/
I have no connected the 5th cell to the D part as well, no more
false readings and everything is still removable within seconds and
without opening / modifiying the body...
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
If You looked the specification of CR123 batteries You should
notice very high discharge current (standard-10mA, max.
continuous-1500mA and pulse-3500mA). So I am afraid Your 5 AA cell
connected in series will never be able to replace those two sets of
factory installed batteries.
Well thats what happened with 4 maybe half full nimhs, with 5 cells it is not happening anymore.
Beside life of
I was thinking about something like this too but it works simply to good with the above setup. btw. the Hr-4/3AU have the same size my Li-Ion have. There is no way to get 4 of them in the base compartment. If I wish to go with 4/3 sized I would prefer the Li-Ion anyway (for the reasons not to do it see the whole thread above).
Thanks for your input. If i have the time to continue on this I might contact you again
Dominic
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
KIM MIN-SU
Well-known member
use the 17670 battery cell (17mm dia, 67mm length),Well I have those round cellls, yoused them in the torch but had toLet me guess, they're 18mm in diameter, instead of 14mm like aI still have a whole bunch of Li-Ion cells and ICs to handle them
lying here. Only made a high power LED torch that will now have
enough battery power for 1 year of constant usage (Li-Ions are such
an overkill for that
Not to sure what I will do with the others since they are a bit to
thick to fit inside the SD9 and I want to avoid to make the body
even bigger as it is.
standard AA, but AA length, 49 or 50mm.
buy 20, anyway there were so dirt cheap that it did not matter. As
well as some prism cells (not that cheap). I thought about removing
the Battery tray and insert them in the big room there but well
they are all just mm to thick (the prism cells even less). I could
easily get 7.2V/2600mah inside the body if those prism cells would
just be a bit smaller. I could insert two of them (1300mah) but
this leaves about 50% of the Space in the body unused, adding
another two above the others is just 2mm to high...
the capacity is almost 1600mAh.
and used in Sony VAIO battery, DR201 serise battery.
the cell price about $2.5~3.0 per cell.
you should be prepaire the charing method
Li-ion battery is charged by 4.2V. CC-CV method
Considering about the operation voltage of Li-ion battery
fully charged battery have 4.2V
and operated to 3.0V.
3.7V is a normalized voltage not exact value practically.
Need the over-discharge protection module.
if you discharge the Li-ion battery to 0.5V or lower.
the battery's capacity and cycle life is dramtically decreased.
and some battery is dead.
if try to charge the dead battery, will be over-heat and exposure.
--Well I have not tried the internal conncetions but it works at the
external DC port. The simple reason is that all devices I have
checked for this (DV Camcorders for example) so far have either
diodes or something else there to drop the voltage a bit.
But hard to get, at least here in Europe. Some RC fanatics told me
about them but they would not gave the few away they got. It took
me month to get the standard round cells and the prism cells. And
there was no way to get other sizes (even if I would order hundreds
of them), if you know someone who would sell them for a reasonable
price I would really apreciate it. What would you guess how long it
took till my Li-Ion charging IC from Linear technologies was
delivered? From the order to the day it finally arrived here....
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
SD-9, 24-70DG F2.8
ICQ : 34153143
Dominic Groß
Veteran Member
Well I have those (mentioned this here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=5154291 )
the problem is that I can only fit 2 of them in the body. This gives me 7.2V / 1300mah (or lets assume your 1600). with the nimh mod I can get 6.25 / 2100 mah. My goal is to fit as much power in the body and therefore the nimhs win for the moment. If I find a way around those nasty plastic parts in the compartment 4 Li-ion are the better way. I will make external packs of those cells to carry them everywhere as backup. At the moment I am more than pleased with the 5 nimh setup, looks like the up to date nimh technologie can still compete with Li-ion. Of course if I could squeeze in those Li-ion with higher density I have it would really rock, but I see no way for that at the moment cause those plastic parts are part of the body construction.
Got an IC from Linear Technologies that takes care about that.
I am well aware of this, was one major problem to solve for the LED torch i made, although the cells I got are most of the time around 3.4V to 3.8V. After the first 10-20% are discharged they are below 3.8V and at maybe at 10% of their capacity they hit 3.4V. Also described that in one of the many threads around here a bit more accurate.
The charger I have in mind (and yet to build) takes care of that and charges very slowly if the cell is under the critical values (even going below 2.8) can be a problem with some Li-ion. I thought about building in a small voltage drop so that the SD9 won't get enough power if the cells are at about 2.8V and switch off. On the other hand the protections don't look that complicated and I could build one aswell.
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
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