"Ghosts" in images with Canon S50

freshet · May 20, 2003

I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced the same phenomenon with their S50 or any other camera. In some images I am getting cicular, semi-transparent ghosts. They vary in size, number (1-4) and location within the images and appear to occur only on some (not all) indoor pictures taken with the flash. They may have something to do with reflections from glass in picture frames, windows or possibly from ceramic pots but I have not so far been able to verify this. I actually spoke with a technician at Canon who couldn't solve the problem over the phone and suggested I take the camera back to where I got it. This is actually my third S50. The other two were returned because of this same problem. Now i'm seeing these "manifestations" in some of the shots I've taken with this newest camera. Would be interested in hearing of any similar experiences or thoughts on what might be causing this. Thanks

John

Agent · May 20, 2003

Are the Canon reps worthless?

I can't believe they couldn't help you. If what you described is what I experienced, these are small white circles in the images that only show up in indoor flash shots. These are dust particles in the air.

This issue can only be partially solved by

a. taking multiple shots (they wont show up in 'every' picture)
b. post processing and cloning out these ghosts in Photoshop

freshet said:
I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced the same phenomenon
with their S50 or any other camera. In some images I am getting
cicular, semi-transparent ghosts. They vary in size, number (1-4)
and location within the images and appear to occur only on some
(not all) indoor pictures taken with the flash. They may have
something to do with reflections from glass in picture frames,
windows or possibly from ceramic pots but I have not so far been
able to verify this. I actually spoke with a technician at Canon
who couldn't solve the problem over the phone and suggested I take
the camera back to where I got it. This is actually my third S50.
The other two were returned because of this same problem. Now i'm
seeing these "manifestations" in some of the shots I've taken with
this newest camera. Would be interested in hearing of any similar
experiences or thoughts on what might be causing this. Thanks

John

--
http://www.pbase.com/agent2099

AlexanderS200 · May 21, 2003

freshet, I believe by saying 'ghosts' you mean duplicated shapes close to the main object, not the dust/other particles.

If so, try varying your ISO setting. I'm not sure, but it helped me a lot when dealing with the similar problem shooting dark indoor objects.

Agent said:
I can't believe they couldn't help you. If what you described is
what I experienced, these are small white circles in the images
that only show up in indoor flash shots. These are dust particles
in the air.

This issue can only be partially solved by

a. taking multiple shots (they wont show up in 'every' picture)
b. post processing and cloning out these ghosts in Photoshop

freshet said:

I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced the same phenomenon
with their S50 or any other camera. In some images I am getting
cicular, semi-transparent ghosts. They vary in size, number (1-4)
and location within the images and appear to occur only on some
(not all) indoor pictures taken with the flash. They may have
something to do with reflections from glass in picture frames,
windows or possibly from ceramic pots but I have not so far been
able to verify this. I actually spoke with a technician at Canon
who couldn't solve the problem over the phone and suggested I take
the camera back to where I got it. This is actually my third S50.
The other two were returned because of this same problem. Now i'm
seeing these "manifestations" in some of the shots I've taken with
this newest camera. Would be interested in hearing of any similar
experiences or thoughts on what might be causing this. Thanks

John

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/agent2099

David Gard · May 21, 2003

You could also minimize the appearance of these "ghosts," assuming they are flash reflected from dust/particulates in the air, by using an external slave flash...

see http://www.pbase.com/gard/dust_devils

for examples of dust-generated ghosts... Also, if you search the forum, you will find many threads regarding this issue, some with the optical explanation (which deals with the near coaxial lens/flash and the extreme depth of field of compact DCs).
--
Dave Gard
http://www.pbase.com/gard

Knum · May 21, 2003

I feel like I'm in the sequal to Groundhog's Day...

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------
Panasonic FZ1, Canon S30, Olympus C-700
http://www.pbase.com/knum/

Niklas Pind · May 21, 2003

I have ghost on some of my pictures taken indoor with flash too on my new S400. I don't recall having them on my old S40.

Since I had no ghosts on my old S40 (one generation old technology), but present on the new generation cameras from Canon (S400/S50), could it be som of the new technology that makes it more sensitive to these ghosts?

Niklas

SOL #82371 · May 21, 2003

there was an article somewhere about it, but I can't find it

Niklas Pind said:
I have ghost on some of my pictures taken indoor with flash too on
my new S400. I don't recall having them on my old S40.

Since I had no ghosts on my old S40 (one generation old
technology), but present on the new generation cameras from Canon
(S400/S50), could it be som of the new technology that makes it
more sensitive to these ghosts?

Niklas

Bob the Printer88467 · May 21, 2003

Sounds like out of focus dust particles in the air. You are more likely to see them when your subject is relatively small compared to the overal picture, and when the area the picture is taken in is vast. It will also happen more when the backgrounds are dark I can hardly believe that Canon didn't know about this.

If you keep taking the cameras back for this problem, you'll end up doing nothing but returning cameras! It's a trait of most digicams with flash mounted relatively close to the taking lens. Ways to overcome it are to get the flash off camera (or at least further from the taking lens), and trying not to take flash pictures of small far away subjects in big spaces.

Sincerely, Bob the Printer

mike savad · May 21, 2003

white balls with a slight ring?

dust in front of or on the lens itself, caused by the flash racing across the lens. clean the lens, or don't shoot in a dirty room.

---Mike Savad

freshet said:
I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced the same phenomenon
with their S50 or any other camera. In some images I am getting
cicular, semi-transparent ghosts. They vary in size, number (1-4)
and location within the images and appear to occur only on some
(not all) indoor pictures taken with the flash. They may have
something to do with reflections from glass in picture frames,
windows or possibly from ceramic pots but I have not so far been
able to verify this. I actually spoke with a technician at Canon
who couldn't solve the problem over the phone and suggested I take
the camera back to where I got it. This is actually my third S50.
The other two were returned because of this same problem. Now i'm
seeing these "manifestations" in some of the shots I've taken with
this newest camera. Would be interested in hearing of any similar
experiences or thoughts on what might be causing this. Thanks

John

--
http://www.pbase.com/savad/
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=9050
http://www.artsig.com/go/users/view?id=52

mike savad · May 21, 2003

it has to do with how close the bright flash is to the lens, and where the lens is when the flash goes off.

my camera has the flash behind and over the lens. i never see them. yet these tiny cameras have a small, very bright flash right by the lens. it lights everything right up. it has nothing to do with sensitivities - just a dirty room.

---Mike Savad

Niklas Pind said:
I have ghost on some of my pictures taken indoor with flash too on
my new S400. I don't recall having them on my old S40.

Since I had no ghosts on my old S40 (one generation old
technology), but present on the new generation cameras from Canon
(S400/S50), could it be som of the new technology that makes it
more sensitive to these ghosts?

Niklas

--
http://www.pbase.com/savad/
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=9050
http://www.artsig.com/go/users/view?id=52

freshet · May 21, 2003

Well, no, not duplicated shapes - I am using terms that mean something else in trying to describe something with which I have no prior experience. Pardon me for confusing the issue. These are always semi-transparent circles and it is not clear with what object within the image they are associated. They resemble ghostly "soap bubbles" but not quite so transparent... I'm just guessing they are some kind of reflection of the flash off glass or some other shiny surface or something that is going on inside the camera ...

AlexanderS200 said:
If so, try varying your ISO setting. I'm not sure, but it helped me
a lot when dealing with the similar problem shooting dark indoor
objects.

Agent said:

I can't believe they couldn't help you. If what you described is
what I experienced, these are small white circles in the images
that only show up in indoor flash shots. These are dust particles
in the air.

This issue can only be partially solved by

a. taking multiple shots (they wont show up in 'every' picture)
b. post processing and cloning out these ghosts in Photoshop

freshet said:

I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced the same phenomenon
with their S50 or any other camera. In some images I am getting
cicular, semi-transparent ghosts. They vary in size, number (1-4)
and location within the images and appear to occur only on some
(not all) indoor pictures taken with the flash. They may have
something to do with reflections from glass in picture frames,
windows or possibly from ceramic pots but I have not so far been
able to verify this. I actually spoke with a technician at Canon
who couldn't solve the problem over the phone and suggested I take
the camera back to where I got it. This is actually my third S50.
The other two were returned because of this same problem. Now i'm
seeing these "manifestations" in some of the shots I've taken with
this newest camera. Would be interested in hearing of any similar
experiences or thoughts on what might be causing this. Thanks

John

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/agent2099

Click to expand...

freshet · May 21, 2003

Perhaps you are right ... in fact they do not show up in every image although i haven't attempted to exactly duplicate a shot by using a tripod. And I have to say that sometimes of they are quite large ... like a very big soap bubble, in some cases nearly as large in the image as a persons head. Does this jive with your dust particle theory?

By the way thanks for your reply!

Agent said:
I can't believe they couldn't help you. If what you described is
what I experienced, these are small white circles in the images
that only show up in indoor flash shots. These are dust particles
in the air.

This issue can only be partially solved by

a. taking multiple shots (they wont show up in 'every' picture)
b. post processing and cloning out these ghosts in Photoshop

freshet said:

I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced the same phenomenon
with their S50 or any other camera. In some images I am getting
cicular, semi-transparent ghosts. They vary in size, number (1-4)
and location within the images and appear to occur only on some
(not all) indoor pictures taken with the flash. They may have
something to do with reflections from glass in picture frames,
windows or possibly from ceramic pots but I have not so far been
able to verify this. I actually spoke with a technician at Canon
who couldn't solve the problem over the phone and suggested I take
the camera back to where I got it. This is actually my third S50.
The other two were returned because of this same problem. Now i'm
seeing these "manifestations" in some of the shots I've taken with
this newest camera. Would be interested in hearing of any similar
experiences or thoughts on what might be causing this. Thanks

John

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/agent2099

freshet · May 21, 2003

Well I didn't think the room was dirty but if this is true (and I would welcome some input on how large these can appear in an image) I guess its an incentive to break out the vaccum!

mike savad said:
my camera has the flash behind and over the lens. i never see them.
yet these tiny cameras have a small, very bright flash right by the
lens. it lights everything right up. it has nothing to do with
sensitivities - just a dirty room.

---Mike Savad

Niklas Pind said:

I have ghost on some of my pictures taken indoor with flash too on
my new S400. I don't recall having them on my old S40.

Since I had no ghosts on my old S40 (one generation old
technology), but present on the new generation cameras from Canon
(S400/S50), could it be som of the new technology that makes it
more sensitive to these ghosts?

Niklas

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/savad/
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=9050
http://www.artsig.com/go/users/view?id=52

freshet · May 21, 2003

Well that fits the pattern - i've only noticed it in pictures that take in a fairly good portion of a large room, never in closeups. It is very odd that the Canon rep was unfamiliar with this problem - perhaps it was the poor description I provided. I would think that retail outlets would have become aware of it as well - it would certainly be in their interest not to have to keep taking back cameras!

Bob Dolson said:
Sounds like out of focus dust particles in the air. You are more
likely to see them when your subject is relatively small compared
to the overal picture, and when the area the picture is taken in is
vast. It will also happen more when the backgrounds are dark I can
hardly believe that Canon didn't know about this.

If you keep taking the cameras back for this problem, you'll end up
doing nothing but returning cameras! It's a trait of most digicams
with flash mounted relatively close to the taking lens. Ways to
overcome it are to get the flash off camera (or at least further
from the taking lens), and trying not to take flash pictures of
small far away subjects in big spaces.

Sincerely, Bob the Printer

Bob Resnikoff · May 21, 2003

My A70 manual talks about this problem in the troubleshooting section: they explain it's a characteristic of digital cameras and is not a defect.

Bob Resnikoff

freshet said:
I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced the same phenomenon
with their S50 or any other camera. In some images I am getting
cicular, semi-transparent ghosts. They vary in size, number (1-4)
and location within the images and appear to occur only on some
(not all) indoor pictures taken with the flash. They may have
something to do with reflections from glass in picture frames,
windows or possibly from ceramic pots but I have not so far been
able to verify this. I actually spoke with a technician at Canon
who couldn't solve the problem over the phone and suggested I take
the camera back to where I got it. This is actually my third S50.
The other two were returned because of this same problem. Now i'm
seeing these "manifestations" in some of the shots I've taken with
this newest camera. Would be interested in hearing of any similar
experiences or thoughts on what might be causing this. Thanks

John

Niklas Pind · May 21, 2003

I have just checked my manual for my S400, and on page 144 in the troubleshooting section it describes the problem with the reflection in dustparticles in the air. Why is the user guide/manuals always the last place you look?

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