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D600 Shutter Repair Failed- I'm Still Getting Loads of Dust!!!

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S31 said:
S31 wrote:

I somehow don't think that changing focal length is responsible for the vast majority of oil/dust spots in freshly cleaned and repaired D600s
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I agree. I conducted some tests, pumping the zoom in an out 5 times between shots. It definitely moved some of the dust around, sometimes moving it onto the sensor, sometimes moving across it and sometimes moving it off. Some of the shapes are identifiable, so I am certain that at least some of them were not sucked in by the zoom. Given the accumulation rates, I think that most were already in the camera.

You are right to minimize the possible sources of contamination. It removes any possible critique of your handling of the camera. For the same reason, I did not clean the camera myself until I had two rounds with the camera store.
 
I find it very interesting how some people after all this time are still making up excuses or defending this issue. Nikon has admitted an issue and by replacing parts is further admitting a defect. The mostly left side pattern of this issue should be an indication that this is not caused mainly by changing a lens or normal dust. Normal dust is distributed evenly in most cases. I own two and both have a clear left side of image issue. Repeat wet cleaning seems to reduce the problem over time. I am at over 14,000 shutter count on the first body. The new body started doing it right out of the box with no lens change and a fixed 50 1.8G lens. This is not an external issue. This seems to be a splatter issue in both my bodies on the left side. You can clearly see it if you shoot a white sheet, out of focus, manual mode, place your camera in iso 100, CL 4-5fps, jpeg, shutter speed 2000 and shoot about 200 images. If the camera has the issue, you will see spots appear like magic. Some people may not see it in "normal" images right away. Over time the amount of debris grows and stacks and the magical spots start to show up. This is not your normal dust ....this is a hot mess inside. Still love the images minus this issue.
 
On a cloudy sky my dust/oil shows clearly at F5.6 and F4
eNo said:
eNo wrote:
eNo said:
S31 wrote:

...I now have as many oil/dust spots as before the fix appearing even at f 4 ...
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Could you post one shot at f/4 that shows the dust problem? Really scratching my head here. I never see dust until I'm at f/8 (on FX).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://imagesbyeduardo.com/
Los Angeles wedding photography that seeks the heart and spirit in each image
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Please post an example.
 
mrjpack said:
mrjpack wrote:
mrjpack said:
S31 wrote:
mrjpack said:
mrjpack wrote:

It doesnt matter if you change lenses or not, if you are using a zoom lens, you are most likely sucking air in & out each time you change the focal length...

I am at over 6000 shots, I had been wet cleaning ever so often because in the early days I saw smearing while using the arctic butterfly method. This last time I just used the brush & there no longer was any smear so now I just remove the dust before I go & shoot, takes a whopping 3 minutes. Should I have to do it so often? No, but I love the camera so much I am willing to put up with it... Those who are scared to clean their sensor or think this is only a D600 issue probably never scrutinized their other DSLR's as much. My D70 was almost as prone to dust as the 600, my D90 required regular cleaning. My D300s was probably the best of all of them, but still required cleaning from time to time...

JIm
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I somehow don't think that changing focal length is responsible for the vast majority of oil/dust spots in freshly cleaned and repaired D600s
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Then you don't understand how a zoom lens works. Now internally there is something different or wrong with the D600 that allows the path of dust to get to the sensor more easily than other DSLR's or maybe the sensor has more of a static charge to it. But saying that you wont get dust because you don't change a lens, but use a zoom lens, really? What do you think happens when you zoom in and out to the air in the lens?????

JIm
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Jim, -- give the guy a break. First of, oil is not dust and isn't sucked from thin air, -- try to clean it with a blower. Second, I had a lot of Nikon cameras and none has or ever had this issue to such a degree. Dust is not the rule, it is an exception unless you're really careless when changing lenses. This is an occasional and not a regular issue on any quality camera. And yes, I use plenty of zooms too, even the push-pull type. Defending Nikon when they clearly and demonstrably failed in their manufacturing processes -- and perhaps the design too -- is simply ridiculous. I feel bad for OP, I wouldn't touch D600 with 10 foot pole.
 
Zagato said:
Zagato wrote:

Because they are not just dust but OIL spots...........

Michael
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Dust and oil come clean with the correct fluid. I'm NOT trying to say it is not a problem. I just can't see myself spending a bunch of time sending off a body that needs a simple sensor cleaning. I do understand that some persons are uncomfortable doing so and wanted to express that I have had a very easy time of it.
 
S31 said:
S31 wrote:
S31 said:
narddogg81 wrote:

You have 34 posts and all of them are about dust. Now you are claiming you see dust at f4. post images.
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Do you work for Nikon or something? Yes all my posts have been about dust/oil because this is my first proper DSLR and I'm really disappointed. And like many others I'm looking for advice and also sharing my experience.

I'm sorry that I don't have posts talking about fancy new lenses and kit....you want to know why? Because I haven't been willing to invest in new gear like I want to for a camera that I may eventually be receiveing my money back on. Also i don't want to give another penny to Nikon ever again unless this gets sorted. Whilst some will shake their heads in disbelief at such a statement, I know that many here agree.

And as for posting pictures 'to prove' myself, please stop. If you look at my previous posts I posted pictures to satisfy people like yourself, and frankly, I think at this stage of the D600 problem it is immature to still be questioning the honesty of individuals like myself who have this issue. I have no time for fanboys. There is nothing wrong with liking the products made by a good company and being respectful of that but to support a company who is happily misleading customers paying large sums of money for defective products is a little odd.
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From my D70 days we learnt to do a wet clean.

I feel sorry for some that have problems with oil spots and they probably should not be there from possible lay faulty shutter, BUT if this is your first DSLR then you are going to have to deal with dust and oil, and it's really no big deal really, but it is a fact of life if you are going to chalemme senses.
 
In a way it is difficult to comment because Nikon say only on rare occasions does a D600 have a sensor problem.

Some have more dust issues than others because they do not regularly clean the inside of the lens cap or body cap, the inside of the camera bag or lens pouch, change lenses frequently in dusty or moist atmosphere conditions, use lenses which are not dust resistant, move the zoom fast, or use the camera in a way which allows condensation to form relatively frequently on the mirror.

The first time I did a sensor clean the monitor image showed spots which were on the monitor surface, not the sensor!

What is "normal" dust etc depend in part on camera usage. Either the OP uses the camera in above average dust conditions or Nikon did not do a first class job.
 
Leonard Shepherd said:
Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Some have more dust issues than others because they do not regularly clean the inside of the lens cap or body cap, the inside of the camera bag or lens pouch, change lenses frequently in dusty or moist atmosphere conditions, use lenses which are not dust resistant, move the zoom fast, or use the camera in a way which allows condensation to form relatively frequently on the mirror.
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That's a joke, right?
Leonard Shepherd said:
The first time I did a sensor clean the monitor image showed spots which were on the monitor surface, not the sensor!
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That's another joke, right?
 
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Hi Everyone, I am well aware that the sensor of a DSLR camera is prone to accumulating dust, however, Nikon cameras seem to be the only brand with unsually large amount of dust/oil/debris on their sensors. Does anyone know if Nikon has fixed this problem in cameras that were manufactured after the D600? If not, why should anyone go through the hassle of buying a Nikon DSLR when the dust problem is more than what is normal in cameras of this kind?
 
Jimography said:
Jimography wrote:

Nikon cameras seem to be the only brand with unsually large amount of dust/oil/debris on their sensors.
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A number of D600 seem to have a real issue (dust and oil coming back after a modest number of shutter actuations). Other Nikon cameras are not affected.

Jimography said:
Does anyone know if Nikon has fixed this problem in cameras that were manufactured after the D600?
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Only the D600 seem to have this issue. See above.
Jimography said:
If not, why should anyone go through the hassle of buying a Nikon DSLR when the dust problem is more than what is normal in cameras of this kind?
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D600 owners have explain this many times:
  • A number of them don't have any issue
  • The dust or oil is only visible at small apertures, therefore do not affect those who shoot primarily at f5.6 and wider
  • The D600 is an outstanding camera, and owners accept the shortcomings of having to clean the sensor often in the first months of ownership
YMMV
 
TOF guy said:
TOF guy wrote:
TOF guy said:
Jimography wrote:

Nikon cameras seem to be the only brand with unsually large amount of dust/oil/debris on their sensors.
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A number of D600 seem to have a real issue (dust and oil coming back after a modest number of shutter actuations). Other Nikon cameras are not affected.
TOF guy said:
Does anyone know if Nikon has fixed this problem in cameras that were manufactured after the D600?
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Only the D600 seem to have this issue. See above.
TOF guy said:
If not, why should anyone go through the hassle of buying a Nikon DSLR when the dust problem is more than what is normal in cameras of this kind?
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D600 owners have explain this many times:
  • A number of them don't have any issue
  • The dust or oil is only visible at small apertures, therefore do not affect those who shoot primarily at f5.6 and wider
  • The D600 is an outstanding camera, and owners accept the shortcomings of having to clean the sensor often in the first months of ownership
YMMV
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1w12q312qw1 said:
1w12q312qw1 wrote:
1w12q312qw1 said:
Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Some have more dust issues than others because they do not regularly clean the inside of the lens cap or body cap, the inside of the camera bag or lens pouch, change lenses frequently in dusty or moist atmosphere conditions, use lenses which are not dust resistant, move the zoom fast, or use the camera in a way which allows condensation to form relatively frequently on the mirror.
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That's a joke, right?
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Why is discussing reality a joke?

Nikon mention some of these issues as potential sources of sensor dust in all DSLR instruction books.
 
Jimography said:
Jimography wrote:

If not, why should anyone go through the hassle of buying a Nikon DSLR when the dust problem is more than what is normal in cameras of this kind?
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because the D600 is such a great camera which imho far outweighs any dust issues - and mine did have bad dust initially ... but no more. Read the other threads and you will find many happy D600 owners out there.

Andy
 
Leonard Shepherd said:
Leonard Shepherd wrote:
Leonard Shepherd said:
1w12q312qw1 wrote:
Leonard Shepherd said:
Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Some have more dust issues than others because they do not regularly clean the inside of the lens cap or body cap, the inside of the camera bag or lens pouch, change lenses frequently in dusty or moist atmosphere conditions, use lenses which are not dust resistant, move the zoom fast, or use the camera in a way which allows condensation to form relatively frequently on the mirror.
Click to expand...
That's a joke, right?
Click to expand...
Why is discussing reality a joke?

Nikon mention some of these issues as potential sources of sensor dust in all DSLR instruction books.
Click to expand...
 
Leonard Shepherd said:
Leonard Shepherd wrote:
Leonard Shepherd said:
1w12q312qw1 wrote:
Leonard Shepherd said:
Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Some have more dust issues than others because they do not regularly clean the inside of the lens cap or body cap, the inside of the camera bag or lens pouch, change lenses frequently in dusty or moist atmosphere conditions, use lenses which are not dust resistant, move the zoom fast, or use the camera in a way which allows condensation to form relatively frequently on the mirror.
Click to expand...
That's a joke, right?
Click to expand...
Why is discussing reality a joke?

Nikon mention some of these issues as potential sources of sensor dust in all DSLR instruction books.
Click to expand...
The manuals also say to NEVER touch the sensor's surface and only use a blower and send it to them for cleaning. That is a totally unrealistic way to own and maintain a D-SLR, and it is without a doubt a JOKE, whether you admit it or not.

As for the rest of your statement: 1) a lot of people can't afford top-tier Nikkors with internal movement and must use telescoping zooms, 2) a lot of people make their living and/or enjoy shooting in dusty or moist conditions, so what are they to do?, 3) if you're shooting action like kids, birds or sports, you would probably use a fast motion to zoom in or out, no? 4) if you shoot in extreme environments, you will experience more condensation than in other environments, no? 5) keeping bags and pouches and caps as clean as possible is normal routine for some people but not for everyone.

So Nikon is saying all of these things contribute to sensor dust and if any of those 5 points apply to your gear, you will have to either don't do them or depend on your blower as a first-line of dust removal then keep sending it to Nikon as the second and final option. And are you saying that all cameras come back from their service centers 100% dust-free? Another joke, your argument for Nikon's position DNA (does not apply) in the real-world, but it's good for a laugh :)

Stan
 
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I don't think it's dust at all, but oil from some kind of lubrication needed by the shutter. Hence, Nikon telling you not to clean it yourself. Dust cleans off easily, oil doesn't. Excess oil or lubricants in systems usually indicates that mechanism is cheap/sloppily made and uses the oil or other lubricant as a "crutch" to make the system work. I've seen very expensive (not consumer camera) zoom mechanisms made without any lubrication. Some really cheap systems even use heavy (viscous) lubricants to "take up slack" in mechanisms with sloppy manufacturing tolerances. It's likely resolution of the D600 issue will need an entirely new shutter or even new body. If the D600 or D7100 are any indication or even the D800, Nikon is attempting to carve out an entirely new niche based on heavy cost-cutting.
 
The advice is the same in old and new models including the D4. I am told the shutter system of the d600 is of a dry type. Lubricant is associated with the mirror mechanism, but a lot of sticky stuff may actually be pollen.

Lock
 
By suggesting that the excessive dust issue - as admitted by Nikon to 'only exist in a minority of cameras- is caused by photographers not cleaning their material. That is your truth Leonard. Nikon never said that.

It would be interesting to hear why Nikon has offered several of us to 'fix' the problem up to three times if it was just sloppy handling and care of the users that caused the issue in the first place.

Lock
 
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