Great Bustard wrote:
But would the target audience care enough to pay more for the photo, decide to purchase the photo or not, or vote differently in a photography competition? That's what I'm asking. Myself, I think it would be relatively rare that the difference in IQ would make a difference, except for extreme conditions (keeping in mind, of course, that some photographers' photography is almost entirely in the extreme).


This touches on a couple of issues. First, anyone wanting to provide a professional level of services is going to think in terms of whether the target audience will notice a difference. That's a given, but one of the things that separates successful photographers from less successful ones is the willingness and ability to exceed expectations, even if it's not recognized. A musician will spend thousands on instruments and hundreds of hours rehearsing, even though most of his audience will never be able to tell the difference between his $2500 guitar and $3000 amp set up and if he had used a $250 guitar and $300 amp. But he can tell, and so strives for the utmost quality he can achieve because he knows there are those who can tell the difference and will let him know either way.

Which brings up the idea that those who will be paying for the photos, or judging them in a top tier competitions, will be looking for those differences in IQ that sets a "GWC" apart from someone who truly works on both technique and concept in order to produce the most effective images possible. Many "GWC" types simply seem to wander around hoping to find subjects and scenes worth photographing, and then hope their gear will assure them of a certain level of technical expertise. IMO, truly successful photographers put a lot of work into making images, not just capturing them.



Take the commonplace talk of high ISO performance and how it relates to taking available light photos. In many such discussions, people will on occasion speak about what pros use, apparently without realizing that many pros in fact use "artificial light" or augment available light in order to control things in a way which assures the best possible IQ. They will use techniques which make it appear as though the photo is "au natural", and the less informed assume they took the photo with a camera that has superior high ISO performance. Maybe. Or maybe photographers like David Hobby, Annie Leibovitz and others know how to use lighting equipment so subtly it looks like available light.



So the real answer to your question depends greatly on who is doing the buying or judging. From a professional standpoint, one hopes that a client recognizes a photo for both technical and aesthetic/stylistic merit. Most of the time this is true. My main client first recognized the style and aesthetics of my photos, and that is still what I get the most feedback about. But on occasion I do get people asking how I achieve the IQ I do, compared to their efforts with what are arguably newer, more capable cameras.



That throws in a new wrinkle: will a newer camera make a demonstrable difference for someone who isn't already at a technical level that has "outstripped" his older camera? Maybe. I can't wring much more IQ out of the E520, when making concert photos, than I currently do. But I know someone with a Canon 60D who "shortsells" that camera's capabilities by quite a bit, mainly because he lets the camera do most of the decision making for him.



(and let's not even delve into people who never go beyond using kit lenses)



Bottom line, IMO: all other things being equal, I agree it's rare that the deciding factor in whether a given photograph is successful is that it was made with the latest camera or not. Yet, in the end, it depends on who is determining the "success" of a photo. One of my most "successful" (as in popular and highly praised) is a rather fuzzy shot taken with a Kodak z712IS. The subjects-a young Meskwaki dancer carrying his infant son during a dance, both of them in regalia-is technically full of flaws, but the subject matter, and my good fortune in how I captured the moment, far outweigh the flaws.
 
Stacey_K wrote:
Rriley wrote:
Stacey_K wrote:
veroman wrote:

There is no "problem." No hardware upgrade path is needed if the E-3 satisfies one's requirements as a photographic tool. You don't seem to understand that. No sure why.
Of course if someone feels the results an E system camera is capable of is all they (or their clients) will ever need, they would never need to upgrade. That would be true of a cheap P&S as well. For that matter an iPhone is all many people need as far as a photographic tool. It doesn't mean any of those are the best IQ options available.
When the day comes that digital photography in general provides a quantum leap in IQ and everything else that matters in a camera, then maybe it would be time for just about everyone to move on and upward.
For some people and their types of photography, this has already happened. Why do you think reviews rave about the OMD and the sales of them went thru the roof? It's not really any smaller than the E410 so it's not the compact size. It's the improved IQ. If I was buying into an olympus system, it would be m4/3 and -later- if and when they make a 4/3 compatible model, look at investing in some used 4/3 glass if I needed it.
did sales really go through 'the roof'
Compared to the E5 or any 4/3 model sold is years? Yes.
I would like to see these statistics that describe how cameras with better IQ sell better. I mean if this were true, given that 43rds is no longer a part of Olympus stats in any meaningful way, why does Olympus still find itself in financial trouble.
Ask the last CEO. And why do you suppose Olympus gave up on 4/3 if it was such a hot seller for them?
Im not asking the CEO, you made a a claim I want to hear how you arrived at your conclusion, b/se on what I know your claim isnt true.
One of the largest selling cameras for Olympus has been the diminutive 12Mp EPL1 (very similar sensor performance to E5), which managed several times the sales performance of OMD. Presently the volume is with E-PL3, still with the 12Mp sensor, and again many times the volume of OMD. You might explain to me why that is so if your theory is to hold true.
Hmm lets see a $400 camera with the same sensor as a $1700 (body only) model. Which do you think they would sell more of? It's back to what I was saying, the only 4/3 model is the top shelf pro model when in every camera line the lower end consumer models are what sell. Olympus hasn't had a consumer model for sale for years, which is why they have no market share.
how familiar does this sound "Why do you think reviews rave about the OMD and the sales of them went thru the roof? It's not really any smaller than the E410 so it's not the compact size. It's the improved IQ."

the 'truth is, the fact of the matter is the complete reverse of what you subscribe to
Obviously I don't have the sales numbers but am going by what the people at the camera shop I use said. They told me they have sold a bunch of OMD's to advanced amateurs and the last 4/3 body they sold was 2 years ago and it was special ordered. I don't think that is a theory.

Clearly price points have a lot to do with sales. Also camera size vs IQ also weigh into the sales numbers for many people. I do think people buying a camera do care "Does it take good pictures?" even on the most casual level.
 
Systems function well when people stick with them and learn to use them with speed and efficiency. When newspaper photogs all used Tri-X, they did it because they completely understood the film, not because it had the best resolution, or grain or even speed.
 
Stacey_K wrote:

..And the below is one of my favorite cameras I still use from time to time so I do understand older gear can be fun to use!
[/QUOTE]
[IMG width="400px"]http://m4.i.pbase.com/o3/83/694283/1/137880574.xlCw88UO.2011.09.07DSC_7192_FR_3_.jpg



--
- sergey
 
Rriley wrote:
Stacey_K wrote:
Rriley wrote:
I would like to see these statistics that describe how cameras with better IQ sell better. I mean if this were true, given that 43rds is no longer a part of Olympus stats in any meaningful way, why does Olympus still find itself in financial trouble.
Ask the last CEO. And why do you suppose Olympus gave up on 4/3 if it was such a hot seller for them?
Im not asking the CEO, you made a a claim I want to hear how you arrived at your conclusion, b/se on what I know your claim isnt true.
The corporate corruption was a big part, hence asking the CEO or else read up on what happened yourself.


That + poor 4/3 sales after a pile of money was put into R&D. The CEO was quoted as saying they need to cleans house and shed unprofitable businesses. Guess what? They quit producing new 4/3 bodies. They didn't stop making 4/3 gear because it was a profit center.

The other thing that hurt was improved cell phones so the lower end P&S market fell apart.

You can "know" whatever you'd like :) People shifted away or didn't buy into 4/3 mainly IMHO because they kept using dated sensor designs. At any point in time, the 4/3 models lagged behind in noise levels. Or maybe you have another idea of why Nikon and Canon models sold in such higher numbers if it wasn't IQ. It's the reason I switched to Nikon.
 
It wasn't too long ago when the 'other' group had notable success at causing DPReview to ban the argumentative. So this really is a season change on the forum.

Better late than never.
 
veroman wrote:

An Olympus E-3 in very good to excellent condition is currently available from a number of sources for about $375 and up ... with a high of maybe $450. Here's what one gets:
  • Excellent image quality ... indisputable; in fact, among the very best
  • 10MP
  • Exceptional color rendering
  • Exceptional OOC JPEGs
  • Weather sealed
  • Strong, long-life, tank-like body
  • Extremely effective in-body image stabilization
  • Large, bright, 100% coverage viewfinder
  • Unusually fast, accurate AF (particularly with SWD lenses)
  • Flip screen LCD
  • Overall fast response
  • Excellent ergonomics
  • A professional-level tool
I'm sure others could add to the above list. The question is: are there any other cameras out there ... new or otherwise ... that can offer what the E-3 offers at $375 to $450?
Ok, the above doesn't seem to have gone unchallenged, so I guess its up to me to add some counter comments. Its what I do :-)

You do indeed get a lot for your money in terms of of higher end features like a 100% viewfinder and a rugged, weather sealed body.

However, depending on how and what you shoot, two of the most important factors in whether a camera is a good image making machine are the sensor, and the AF performance, and in both these key areas, the E3 falls down BADLY.

It does NOT have "excellent image quality". Its actually got really shitty image quality compared to what's been available for a number of years. Limited DR. Can't run the ISO particularly high without running into problems, can't pull the shadows that much even at base ISO. Banding lurking in those shadows as well. Sure, you CAN get great images out of it, but you have to be careful, and other cameras/sensors let you get equally great images, but in a wider range of situations. Who in their right mind wouldn't want that flexibility?

And don't get me started on the AF accuracy. I have a 10% suspicion that there MIGHT be E3s out there that can focus reliably, but seriously, after years of discussions with others, trying numerous different bodies, doing loads if tests, I'm 90% convinced that the Oly AF module simply can't be relied on in the same way that you can with other manufacturers. Again, yet it works to a degree, but give it tricky light, or work at very shallow DOFs, and it gives many more errors that it should.

As I still have my own 4/3 lenses, I've also often pondered picking up a cheap E3 again when I see them on fleabay, however I swiftly go and take a cold shower, and remind myself of the number of times in the past I went out, really enjoyed myself shooting with the Oly DSLRs (because there is much to love in using them), only to come back to the computer, and be bitterly disappointed because shots I thought were nailed, turned out to be just that bit soft due to focus errors, and I simply can't do my normal PP routine on them as the noise and banding just comes out to bite you.

Shoot in good light, at f5.6 to f11 say, at base ISO, maybe on a tripod? and don't do much severe PP, then yea, an E3 might be a great camera and a bargain at the price. But some (most?) people want more.
 
Introducing the EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x – improved performance and versatility for professional sports and wildlife photographers.

This lens was announce this week and will sell for $11,800.

Is this thing twice as good as the 90-250mm, which retails new for about one-half this price?

Used copies of the 90-250mm can be had for a lot less.

I see the price of the Canon and ask myself, for that price will it dust, vacuum and do windows for that price and move on.
 
Stacey_K wrote:
alatchin wrote:
Stacey_K wrote:
veroman wrote:

There is no "problem." No hardware upgrade path is needed if the E-3 . You don't seem to understand that. No sure why.
Of course if someone feels the results an E system camera is capable of is all they (or their clients) will ever need, they would never need to upgrade. That would be true of a cheap P&S as well. For that matter an iPhone is all many people need as far as a photographic tool. It doesn't mean any of those are the best IQ options available.
Where did he call them the "best IQ options available"? And are you really suggesting the E-3 with a 12-60 is on par with a P&S or an Iphone?
"Excellent image quality ... indisputable; in fact, among the very best" is what he said.

And no, what I am saying is for many people a camera that "satisfies one's requirements as a photographic tool" could easily be their cell phone.
Well how does that then compare with your comment about the "best photographic tool" which in your case would be anything you have with you.
For some people and their types of photography, this has already happened. Why do you think reviews rave about the OMD and the sales of them went thru the roof?
Actually it was probably more the style that probably sold the bulk of the bodies over competing products from other manufacturers. Hence the next PEN has been even more "styled"
But do you not agree the people who bought them to use with their 4/3 glass, even with the crippled AF performance, did so for the IQ and the newer sensor? I don't believe they bought them because they wanted to be stylish. And I think a lot of why mirrorless is popular is they handle a lot like the digital P&S models consumers are used to.
Many of them could have bought them just for the size difference. The ability to mount and USE the 43rds glass in many applications is a bonus.
In the meantime, "old" beauties like the E-3 and/or E-5, Canon 1Ds II, Nikon D200 and D2x, Epson RD-1s, etc. will continue to come down in price and bring much satisfaction to those who learn how to use them.
So we are back to the -If you can't make great images in any situation with an E system camera, you need to simply learn more about photography- argument? The suggestion you make above could also be made about buying OM film gear. :)
He also didnt make that argument. I think you are getting a little defensive. There is nothing wrong with enjoying older bodies and what they can do, rather like one might enjoy shooting film.
Well that "argument" has been stated multiple times in this thread. And I agree there is nothing wrong with enjoying older cameras, I just realize they do have limitations (and sometimes strengths) over my newer tech stuff. For examplke, I still use my E1 when I know the weather is likely to be bad. And the below is one of my favorite cameras I still use from time to time so I do understand older gear can be fun to use!



--
Stacey
Cool camera, I have never used a camera like that!

Abraham

--
“You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” -Ansel Adams
blog.alatchinphotography(dot)com
 
Craig from Nevada wrote:

Introducing the EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x – improved performance and versatility for professional sports and wildlife photographers.

This lens was announce this week and will sell for $11,800.

Is this thing twice as good as the 90-250mm, which retails new for about one-half this price?
That's not the question. The question is: will enough people buy the lens for Canon to make an acceptable profit? Their marketing experts seem to think so.

I'm no Canon fan, but let's give the devil his due: they make bodies that convince people to spring for expensive lenses.

Julie
 
Stacey_K wrote:
alatchin wrote:
Stacey_K wrote:
alatchin wrote:

People here seem to think Olympus will stop supporting a huge investment in its optics, and do what? Try again? I think it more likely there is a huge amount of pressure to make those lenses work.
That is speculation at best and they already quit supporting this lens mount. They haven't sold any camera that uses them, other than the E5, for years. And for all we know these are just left over stock that didn't sell. They have lost any market share 4/3 ever had.
What you have written above is your assumptions, they are no better than my speculation.
OK name the new camera bodies they have released in the last few years in 4/3 mount. Actually name -any- camera body they have sold in the last 3 years other than the flagship model. There is no assumption in this fact.
Which "fact" are you talking about? The "fact" that "they have lost any market share 43 ever had" How do you know this? Even when this place was buzzing people were not seeing too many DLSRs about. Are you talking about the "for all we know..." comment? A delay in producing a new body could simply be a delay, if they will continue to repair and service my current bodies and lenses and flashes, and produce a body every 3years then it is supported. Just because I dont have an upgrade every year is not a concern.
No stores Pro stores in Atlanta have any 4/3 gear in stock. Olympus recouped the investment in most of these 4/3 optics long ago and they probably realized shortly after the release (and slow sales) the hyper expensive F2 optics were a bad marketing strategy and have written off that R&D. I'm sure they lost money on the 300mm f2.8 as I doubt many of those were ever sold either.
Assumptions. We have no idea how many lenses were sold at the peak of the 43rds format.
4/3 in total was never a very large market share of dSLR's. The largest numbers of any line are the lower end ones. And even you say "the peak" in past tense.
Neither does Sony. Of course in terms of volume m43rds has certainly given an element of scale to the production of 43rds components. The Adoption of m43rds bodies has exposed many to the abilities of the system, so why would a new E-XXX be such a bad idea? You get the OVF so many m43rds users are asking for, and the SG lenses are not much smaller than the m43rds lenses (but are actually cheaper).

I am not saying this will come to pass, but from a business perspective the 43rds format has lenses designed and built with upgrade paths in place. If all it took was a couple of bodies to start the ball rolling again it really isn't too big a deal. The distribution is already in place with m43rds so it is hardly "starting all over again".
Clearly they have focused on mirror less and yes it's possible they will incorporate some "legacy" support for the 4/3 optics but I myself doubt there is "a huge amount of pressure" (from who? the tiny market share that bought/still have 4/3 optics or the people who are buying up used ones?) nor is this a big priority for them right now. It's actually in their best financial interest to not have good support for these older lenses and force people to rebuy lenses as m4/3 versions.
You are thinking like a consumer imagining what it would be like to make these decisions. The "tiny" market share you speak of has been so important to appease that within 24 hours of rumor spreading about them NOT producing DSLRs they released an official statement to the contrary. If the numbers were so small, and the market so insignificant they would have just let it peter out.
Look around, they HAVE let it peter out. They have no consumer camera bodies for sale whatsoever and haven't had any in a long time. That is a fact, not speculation. Notice the pattern here?
Not meant in an offcensive way, but you are thinking very short term. The E-30 was in what? 2009? and the E-5 2011, so between 2 and 4 years. However their gains in m43rds there are a number differences today, and key advantages than there were 4 years ago (or even 2 years ago).
I still have the 4/3 HQ lenses I bought and hope they do make a reasonably priced camera that supports them but I personally would not start buying lenses in this mount on the speculation of what Olympus might or might not decide to do. YMMV
But your assumptions as to the future of the 43rds bodies are just that, assumptions. Right now, anyone who buys an E-30, E-3 or even an E-5 plus some of the best optics around for firesale prices would actually be very well served, your fears aside.

I have actually bough a few 43rds lenses recently because of the video improvements by companies like black magic (the pocket cam for example). The superb build and optical qualities (low CA high sharpenss wide open etc) of the HG and SHG lines are perfectly matched for video, and as a professional who clearly sees a shift to video and a serious income in that market, I am getting excellent prices on products that certainly do have a future no matter what comes down the pipeline.
Well clearly your use involves using these optics adapted to on a newer camera (video). I'm glad you are getting great prices on these great optics. It doesn't change the fact Olympus abandoned 4/3 quite a while ago! If they do bring 4/3 back, that is exactly what they will be doing, resurrecting the lens mount.
This is just semantics, what I call a delay, you can call death. We can only wait and see, the proof will be in the pudding. If Olympus produces a compelling product in 43rds then they are showing a willingness to compete, and 2 bodies would show this mount is alive and well (it just took a backseat for a couple of years to m43rds). However an E-7 with nothing more than the new sensor (old ibis, PDAF etc) will show it is on life support I guess.

I believe they will have token support for 4/3 lenses in a future model but have no idea how well it will work out. No one does.
No, we don't, but that is why having so many people here sounding the death bell on such a regular basis can be a little irksome.
 
windsprite wrote:
Craig from Nevada wrote:

Introducing the EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x – improved performance and versatility for professional sports and wildlife photographers.

This lens was announce this week and will sell for $11,800.

Is this thing twice as good as the 90-250mm, which retails new for about one-half this price?
That's not the question. The question is: will enough people buy the lens for Canon to make an acceptable profit? Their marketing experts seem to think so.

I'm no Canon fan, but let's give the devil his due: they make bodies that convince people to spring for expensive lenses.

Julie
Julie--the question is why invest in FT? The answer for me is value.

Other people obviously have different answers and if they have a different answer and can spring for $12k they can have the aforementioned lens.

I managed to purchase a mint 90-250mm from a reputable dealer for $2,900. and I have enough change left over to take a trip to use it with plenty still left in the bank.

I give Canon their due but not my money. It is better invested elsewhere.
 
Big Ga wrote:

Ok, the above doesn't seem to have gone unchallenged, so I guess its up to me to add some counter comments. Its what I do :-)

You do indeed get a lot for your money in terms of of higher end features like a 100% viewfinder and a rugged, weather sealed body.

However, depending on how and what you shoot, two of the most important factors in whether a camera is a good image making machine are the sensor, and the AF performance, and in both these key areas, the E3 falls down BADLY.

It does NOT have "excellent image quality". Its actually got really shitty image quality compared to what's been available for a number of years. Limited DR. Can't run the ISO particularly high without running into problems, can't pull the shadows that much even at base ISO. Banding lurking in those shadows as well. Sure, you CAN get great images out of it, but you have to be careful, and other cameras/sensors let you get equally great images, but in a wider range of situations. Who in their right mind wouldn't want that flexibility?

And don't get me started on the AF accuracy. I have a 10% suspicion that there MIGHT be E3s out there that can focus reliably, but seriously, after years of discussions with others, trying numerous different bodies, doing loads if tests, I'm 90% convinced that the Oly AF module simply can't be relied on in the same way that you can with other manufacturers. Again, yet it works to a degree, but give it tricky light, or work at very shallow DOFs, and it gives many more errors that it should.

As I still have my own 4/3 lenses, I've also often pondered picking up a cheap E3 again when I see them on fleabay, however I swiftly go and take a cold shower, and remind myself of the number of times in the past I went out, really enjoyed myself shooting with the Oly DSLRs (because there is much to love in using them), only to come back to the computer, and be bitterly disappointed because shots I thought were nailed, turned out to be just that bit soft due to focus errors, and I simply can't do my normal PP routine on them as the noise and banding just comes out to bite you.

Shoot in good light, at f5.6 to f11 say, at base ISO, maybe on a tripod? and don't do much severe PP, then yea, an E3 might be a great camera and a bargain at the price. But some (most?) people want more.
Gee ... sounds like you don't like the E-3 very much. Good thing I read your post. I would NEVER want to own and use such a poor, awful, dreadful, unimaginably unreliable, stupidly designed, thoroughly ancient piece of technology. Thanks.
 
Craig from Nevada wrote:

Introducing the EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x – improved performance and versatility for professional sports and wildlife photographers.

This lens was announce this week and will sell for $11,800.

Is this thing twice as good as the 90-250mm, which retails new for about one-half this price?

Used copies of the 90-250mm can be had for a lot less.

I see the price of the Canon and ask myself, for that price will it dust, vacuum and do windows for that price and move on.
You have to ask yourself what Canon is really providing here and what the market for that lens is for. This lens is for professional sports and professional wildlife photographers.

Do you find yourself shooting for sports, professionally? Requiring utmost fast and accurate auto focus? Read this article:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4220647313/pro-dslrs-pro-photographers

"As working pros, what are your top requirements for a camera?

JL: I can't have any lag in shutter response or AF performance. I need the shooting rate to be as fast as possible. I need 1080p video. I need a solidly built body that won't break if I knock it on something. And of course the body has to be part of a very extensive system of lenses and accessories. Nikon and Canon are unrivaled there.

DR: Like John, my first priority is the responsiveness of the shutter. When you press the button, it's gotta go! There was a little delay on the 1D Mark III but on the 1D X when you press the button it fires. That is a big deal in sports."

Now ask yourself- would an E-5 with the 90-250mm full fill these requirements? The answer is NO.

Sure, you *can* get a good sports shot, but that's not the point. You can get that with any camera. The thing that a professional needs is consistent top performance, reliability. This kind of consistent performance is out of reach for the 4/3rds line.

Thus Canon prices that lens and the pros *will* pay for it, because it's aimed at a market that it solves a problem for them- or gives them a solid option. And you bet that thing focuses fast.

To you obviously this lens of no value. Neither is it to me. That doesn't make it a "no value." For the market this lens is aimed at, this lens is more than twice as good as the Olympus solution.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
Last edited:
Stacey_K wrote:
Rriley wrote:
Stacey_K wrote:
Rriley wrote:
I would like to see these statistics that describe how cameras with better IQ sell better. I mean if this were true, given that 43rds is no longer a part of Olympus stats in any meaningful way, why does Olympus still find itself in financial trouble.
Ask the last CEO. And why do you suppose Olympus gave up on 4/3 if it was such a hot seller for them?
Im not asking the CEO, you made a a claim I want to hear how you arrived at your conclusion, b/se on what I know your claim isnt true.
The corporate corruption was a big part, hence asking the CEO or else read up on what happened yourself.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/39594156
yeah all very interesting, but I want to bring you back to your statement .... "Why do you think reviews rave about the OMD and the sales of them went thru the roof? It's not really any smaller than the E410 so it's not the compact size. It's the improved IQ."

Im sure if you can prove it this time you will
That + poor 4/3 sales after a pile of money was put into R&D. The CEO was quoted as saying they need to cleans house and shed unprofitable businesses. Guess what? They quit producing new 4/3 bodies. They didn't stop making 4/3 gear because it was a profit center.

The other thing that hurt was improved cell phones so the lower end P&S market fell apart.

You can "know" whatever you'd like :)
Im always willing to 'know' a little more
thats why I have faith that 'this time', if you can prove your 'theory' about improved IQ and its relevance to sales, you will.
People shifted away or didn't buy into 4/3 mainly IMHO because they kept using dated sensor designs. At any point in time, the 4/3 models lagged behind in noise levels. Or maybe you have another idea of why Nikon and Canon models sold in such higher numbers if it wasn't IQ. It's the reason I switched to Nikon.
--
Stacey
--
Riley
any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended
support 1022 Sunday Scapes'
 
Last edited:
to be accurate and thoughtful. And funny. This time I have to respectfully disagree. You mention that somewhere out there , there is an E-3 that had decent AF. Mine did.

In fact I never had any problem with that camera at all except for the delamination of the LCD which Oly USA fixed at no charge even though the camera was out of warranty.

I could get decent JPGS up to ISO 800, and with the use of my NIK noise filter software I could get useable images to 1600.

I had no problem with the AF. It went where I wanted it to go. It did slow down in low light, as does my E-5, but I found it to be a very useful camera. When I got my E-5 I sold the E-3 to a local pro who uses Oly equipment and needed a back-up for his E-5. He used the camera for a couple of months with no problems and bought it. He does a lot of work around water (water skiing) and need a sealed body.

Don't know why you had such poor luck, but really I had little to complain about with that camera and a lot to like about it. I rarely use CAF, and use AF on small normal sensitivity. I typically will put the center AF sensor on whatever I want to be sharp, half press and recompose. If that won't do, then I move the AF to the sensor that's closest to my spot. Never had and problem. Pretty much the same with the E-5.

For 400.00 I still think it's a good buy.
 
Craig from Nevada wrote:

Introducing the EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x – improved performance and versatility for professional sports and wildlife photographers.

This lens was announce this week and will sell for $11,800.

Is this thing twice as good as the 90-250mm, which retails new for about one-half this price?

Used copies of the 90-250mm can be had for a lot less.

I see the price of the Canon and ask myself, for that price will it dust, vacuum and do windows for that price and move on.
...the 14-35 / 2 vs 14-54 / 2.8.
 
Craig from Nevada wrote:
windsprite wrote:
Craig from Nevada wrote:

Introducing the EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x – improved performance and versatility for professional sports and wildlife photographers.

This lens was announce this week and will sell for $11,800.

Is this thing twice as good as the 90-250mm, which retails new for about one-half this price?
That's not the question. The question is: will enough people buy the lens for Canon to make an acceptable profit? Their marketing experts seem to think so.

I'm no Canon fan, but let's give the devil his due: they make bodies that convince people to spring for expensive lenses.

Julie
Julie--the question is why invest in FT? The answer for me is value.

Other people obviously have different answers and if they have a different answer and can spring for $12k they can have the aforementioned lens.
Indeed.
I managed to purchase a mint 90-250mm from a reputable dealer for $2,900. and I have enough change left over to take a trip to use it with plenty still left in the bank.
Nice! That's a great deal for such a great lens! Personally, I consider it a failing of FF to not have a 180-500 / 5.6 IS. Tamron makes a 200-500 / 5.6-6.3, but it lacks USM and IS, and is not optically on par with the Canon's supertelephotos.


I give Canon their due but not my money. It is better invested elsewhere.
Everyone chooses based on their specific needs.
 
This is the clearest pronouncement of purpose and vision from a MOD that I've ever seen.

Thanks man. Hope you get some well deserved sleep after the effort put into that post. ;)

Thank you also for watching for personal attacks. I do believe there are people on the forums who use the anonymity of the internet for their twisted ego games. I agree that a little spat or heated discussion can be good among web friends, but when they break the rules or start attaching people who have a different opinion.... lightening man! Bring it! :)

Cheers,

Seth
 
Stacey_K wrote:
SirSeth wrote:

Also they seem to believe that a camera is not good anymore after a new camera comes along that feels newer.Of course they seem to believe that their individual desires represent what everyone wants...
And you seem to believe you know what other posters are thinking :P

Of course a camera is "still good" when a newer model comes out. The older one just has the same limitations it had when it was new.

Newer technology usually resolves a problem or limitation that some people find important. An example would be for instance faster AF or better CAF. For some people, that may never have felt like a limitation on their present camera so there is no reason to replace it. It's why I never felt the need to upgrade my E410 to a faster focusing olympus model. I've only posted the limitations I experienced with my older tech Olympus gear (sensor noise) and how the camera models with the newest tech sensors resolved this problem for me. I could care less what brand name is on the stuff I use :)
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top