EP5 or OMD EM5 (Ignoring Price) For Beginner?

All:

I have been agonizing over my camera choice for months now and find it so hard to make a decision. I have considered Olympus camera from the beginning but also considered the Fuji XE-1. I am a little worried the Fuji XE-1 is too much camera for a beginner and concerned about the lack of touch screen, face detection, etc. I will be sharing the camera with my wife so the ability to have automatic settings available is important.

With that said, I like the m43 system and the olympus cameras in particular. The IBIS sounds fantastic and it seems like a system I could really grown into and learn with. However, I am torn between the EP5 and the OMD EM5. It seems the EP5 has some genuinely nice improvements with the shutter speed. I also likely the WIFI ability - particularly that my wife could upload and share photos while on vacation, etc. without using a computer. However, I also like the weathersealing and integrated viewfinder of the EM5. I am not opposed to the external VF viewfinder - in fact I like that it may be higher quality - but also realize this is another accessory to carry around. Although with the OMD I would always have to have a flash as well. If I got the EP5 I would likely get the kit with the VF4 and 17mm lens. If I got the OMD I would get the kid with the 12-50mm lens.

Based upon the foregoing, I am looking for some honest advice as to which camera may be better to go with. I realize the OMD may be soon replaced but I cannot wait until that time as I am purchasing the camera before an upcoming vacation. I also realize that some say that the EP5 is overpriced - however, I would like to keep the discussion strictly to the merits of each camera. Any advice is appreciated - I have been so indecisive about this. Thanks.

Price-wise the two should be about equal but add the price of the VF for the EP5.

Why the drastic lens difference? Think more in terms of buying a body to match the lenses you want rather than vice versa. I have the Zuiko (olympus) kit 14-42 and it is a fine and versatile lens. The Zuiko 17mm is decent but unspectacular. I only use it to travel light.

With a wider dynamic range, image quality is slightly better with the E-PL5 (and presumably the EP5) due to the lack of something technical (I think the E-PL5 lacks a low bandwidth filter).

You should probably tell us how you intend to use the camera. The OMD is more rugged but the EP5 is more portable.

Something real to consider is you'll probably have to wait quite awhile before an EP5 is delivered to your home. I don't even think it is available yet.

If you use flash much, you'll probably find the one on the EP5 is rather weak so don't count on saving the cost of a flash.

RobDMB said:

Rob Donchez wrote:

All:

I have been agonizing over my camera choice for months now and find it so hard to make a decision. I have considered Olympus camera from the beginning but also considered the Fuji XE-1. I am a little worried the Fuji XE-1 is too much camera for a beginner and concerned about the lack of touch screen, face detection, etc. I will be sharing the camera with my wife so the ability to have automatic settings available is important.

With that said, I like the m43 system and the olympus cameras in particular. The IBIS sounds fantastic and it seems like a system I could really grown into and learn with. However, I am torn between the EP5 and the OMD EM5. It seems the EP5 has some genuinely nice improvements with the shutter speed. I also likely the WIFI ability - particularly that my wife could upload and share photos while on vacation, etc. without using a computer. However, I also like the weathersealing and integrated viewfinder of the EM5. I am not opposed to the external VF viewfinder - in fact I like that it may be higher quality - but also realize this is another accessory to carry around. Although with the OMD I would always have to have a flash as well. If I got the EP5 I would likely get the kit with the VF4 and 17mm lens. If I got the OMD I would get the kid with the 12-50mm lens.

Based upon the foregoing, I am looking for some honest advice as to which camera may be better to go with. I realize the OMD may be soon replaced but I cannot wait until that time as I am purchasing the camera before an upcoming vacation. I also realize that some say that the EP5 is overpriced - however, I would like to keep the discussion strictly to the merits of each camera. Any advice is appreciated - I have been so indecisive about this. Thanks.

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i don't see why the fuji would be "too much camera" for you but the olympus cameras wouldn't be. the fuji has some pretty well laid out controls, and that might make things easier.

that being said, the lens selection on the micro four thirds system is much better, and to me, that's a very good thing.

do you shoot pics regularly right now on anything? if so, what don't you like about what you're shooting with and what do you like? a lot of people coming from p&s love zoom lenses, and actually so do i. they allow for a lot of versatility, which is not only very handy for vacations and regular photos (after all, who knows how far away people and things will be?) but will allow you to figure out your preferred distances before spending a fair chunk of change on a prime or primes.

imo panasonics make cameras it would be easier to learn on as their controls and everything are better to me than olympus, but olympus has the sensors, and the cameras you're talking about have 5 axis IBIS. i don't think you could go wrong with either of them.

Thanks for the response. I intend to use the camera as my all around camera. For travel (upcoming trip to Hawaii this summer), pictures around the house, landscape, etc. With respect to the difference in lens - I would probably buy a second lens with either package. If the EP5 I would probably add a zoom. If the EM5, I would probably add a prime. I just figured that initially getting the kit is a good value.

Well, one opinion about these two models. . .

I took to the Pen format, and adapted to it's peculiarities (coming from a DSLR background) even with the add on EVF (I use a VF 98% of the time, a must have for me). But even though I completely accepted them once the OM-D appeared I dumped the Pens for this more 'complete' package.

The new Pens have features I'd like in the OM-D, but the OM-D is THE m43 I've been waiting for, and until the next OM-D model appears I simply have no need to look at any other body. And the features missing in the OM-D aren't ones of necessity, they're more about convenience (and I don't feel limited or inconvenienced at all right now). I have been interested in the Xpro-1 for all that's good about it, but I had a friend leave me theirs for a day to help them sort out their issues with it. . . it's a great camera, but after handling for a few hours the interest has faded.

About 'beginners', there's two thoughts about this too. If one just wants to get nice photos, it's probably best to get other than a high end model and discover how much one wants to put into the craft. If it's more about the taking than the making of a photo, that is. Though, if one really has a drive to learn all there is about the craft, to become 'a photographer', then buying the best body and lenses one can afford might be considered. With a better kit there's less room to blame the gear for one's failures, which in the end should drive one to do what's necessary to master the craft. Knowing what one wants from the gear in the long run would be something to mull over for a bit.

I think the first thing to point out is that if you're looking for a more of a compact camera upgrade, you probably ought to consider the GF6. It's targeted more towards that user base and includes WiFi along with being half the price of the Olympus bodies you mentioned. Yes, it does lack the fancy IBIS, but Panasonic's OIS is solid on the lenses that offer it, so it's worthy of consideration. Not to make your decision harder . (Note that's it's out June 1 so you'll have to wait a little, but not as long as you would for the E-P5. Also note I'm not terribly familiar with the device, just casually aware of it.)

As for P5 vs M5... While the P5 certainly adds a few bells and whistles, you probably oughtn't put to much stock in the updates. For example, the external flash sync is still 1/250 which indicates that the shutter maybe isn't actually faster, just lower exposure. Improvements to auto focus seem to primarily affect non-micro four thirds lenses, which you'll probably never have. Etc.

So I think mostly what it comes down to are things like weather seal and builtin EVF vs builtin flash and WiFi. It sounds to me like you'd get more use out of the latter, though I will put the significant caveat that you can also get an Eye-Fi card for <$100 which will match some of what the P5 offers (something to look into). Yes, the weather sealing is a nice feature, if only for the peace of mind that your $1k camera isn't going to easily succumb to a light drizzle, but in reality it doesn't work out to a lot more than that, IMHO. Internal vs external EVF is a pretty personal choice. External can tilt which is very nice. Quality wise, mind that both (VF4 vs E-M5's) are actually better resolution than the main LCD, so it's hard to say how much it will matter for you (it does help for manual focus). Keep in mind you're paying for it with the P5!

That said, the P5 would seem a better fit for you. However, the P5 does suffer one important limitation: that 17mm kit lens. The M5's kit lens is a nice ~4x zoom that covers enough range that you can just live with it for a while. The P5's 17mm, however, doesn't offer that flexibility: it'll handle quite similarly to a disposable camera or cell phone in terms of framing (ignoring depth of field). (Many also consider it a pretty weak lens.) So for a successful vacation shoot, you'd need to budget an additional $500 or so for a second lens (maybe the Oly 14-150mm super zoom, 45mm prime, the M5's 12-50mm), though you could certainly grab a cheap kit-grade 14-42mm.

So conclusion: if money is no object, the P5 kit + zoom lens coming in around $2000 is the best option. Counting money, though, the E-M5's kit + Eye-Fi card will probably do what you need and save you $650. Finally, for a mere $600 you could pick up the GF6, though it lacks quite a few niceties of the Olympus (5 axis stabilization, viewfinder) and its lens is not as good, it offers some pluses like 180 degree tilt on its LCD and maybe a bit more ease of use.

P.S. Sorry to muddy the waters, but if I am going to mention the GF6, I think I should mention the E-PL5 too. A quite excellent camera, which offers the 180deg tilting screen and can use Panasonic's OIS. However, you lose builtin flash, WiFi (work with Eye-Fi card though), and most importantly 5axis stabilization. About the same price as the GF6, and comes with a lens of similar quality.

It's very cool that you and your wife are both into doing this. Should be a lot of fun.

In our own case we have an aging Lx-3 and newer Nikon 330 that might wife prefer, and I have my Oly FT's. Having both styles is actually a very good thing, particularly for travel. Sometimes it makes more sense to have a compact camera in hand, other times a dSLR makes sense. I do have to say that I'm looking forward to ditching the larger cameras for something smaller.

Since you've put a high priority on meeting both of your preferences, one thing you and your wife might do is visit a quality camera shop that would have these models on hand. Since the E-P5 isn't out yet, you could look at the E-P3 as a proxy for the newer model. How the cameras feel in the hand may make the choice easier. Since both of you are into this, you may eventually want two bodies. If that's the case, then an E-P5 now followed up later with the next version of the OMD would give you two camera styles.

The mFT system offers more lens choices, but the Fuji system looks terrific, too. Gear heads will argue the details of IQ. While there may be technical tradeoffs, those are relatively minor compared to the main decision of finding a system (or systems) meeting both of your needs.

--

Jeff

[No message]

That's the best suggestion so far. The E-M5 and E-P5 are so close in performance and features that it's down to personal preferences.

I think the E-P5 is the better overall camera right now, and the better value if you get the package. And I think some comments above are confusing the 17mm lens with the Olympus 17mm f2.8, which is only decent. The 17mm 1.8 is a very good lens.

That was my first thought... Or maybe an E-P(L)3

Unless you really feel the need to buy top of the line right off.

E-PL5 has the same sensor, same IQ, just lacks the 5 axis IBIs, some controls, and costs less.

Get that camera now, add an extra lens w the savings, then down the road give that camera to your wife when you pick up the E-M6

My suggestion is, if you are a beginner, I think you will be just as happy with the E-PL5 for half the price. The pictures will be exactly as good, and you will get 95% of the features. Keep in mind, the way digital cameras work, whatever you buy will be practically obsolete in 3 years. Good lenses are another matter. The lenses will serve you a lot longer than the camera. It's not really necessary to buy a camera to "grow into". By the time you've grown, there will be better available.

If price is really unimportant though, then just go to a shop and try each model out. The main difference between them is going to be in the ergonomics and controls. What's better here is very much down to individual preference. No one else is going to be able to tell you which you will like better.

Forgive me for maybe adding to analysis paralysis.

My wife and I have been looking off/on for a few months to buy new camera equipment. While she took photography classes in college she's been using a point-and-shoot for several years. My camera is an E-500 long overdue for replacement. We are doing much more traveling now and are committed to honing/re-learning our photography skills.

We planned on purchasing two MFT cameras. We were on the "OMD and/or E-PL5" fence for a couple months. We don't need a weather resistant camera but we loved the look and feel of the OMD. The E-PL5 would at the same time give give us functionally what we needed (except lesser IBIS vs OMD) at a lesser cost. But then the new OMD must be coming out soon so maybe we should wait? Then the EP5 was announced.

Longer story shorter, the wife loved the look and upgraded features of the EP5 over the OMD/E-PL5. We ordered the EP5 kit for her. As the 17mm would not be enough, and we are committing to MFT, we ordered a 12, 25, and 45mm at the same time. But this left no zooms. While I was prepared to wait until the EM6 came out, I decided to pick up a new Panasonic G5 with two zooms for <$550. We reasoned that the G5 kit would give us two fairly good zoom lenses to use with her EP5 and my future EM6 while also giving us a camera body with a silent shutter that otherwise has some nice features. Now just waiting for the EM6.

ep5

your wife with the wifi... if shes having fun, that means YOU get to spend more on lenses for it

tada! problem solved!

the weather sealing is nice, but i think youre wife might use the wifi more than both of you would take advantage of the weathersealing

also, being able to use fast lenses without worrying about her on/offing an ND filter to be able to shoot at shallow dof would be handy

if i were getting a camera to share, itd be ep5, no question. it has stuff that i think would benefit nonphotographer people for ease of use and simplicity and fun. which can only benefit ME

oh, yeah, also you get the 17/1.8 - a fast lens is very useful, moreso than a zoom, to me... your wifes photos will look better from allowing in more light, moreso than zooming back n forth. which means more happiness from your wife over using the camera.

RobDMB said:

Rob Donchez wrote:

All:

I have been agonizing over my camera choice for months now and find it so hard to make a decision. I have considered Olympus camera from the beginning but also considered the Fuji XE-1. I am a little worried the Fuji XE-1 is too much camera for a beginner and concerned about the lack of touch screen, face detection, etc. I will be sharing the camera with my wife so the ability to have automatic settings available is important.

With that said, I like the m43 system and the olympus cameras in particular. The IBIS sounds fantastic and it seems like a system I could really grown into and learn with. However, I am torn between the EP5 and the OMD EM5. It seems the EP5 has some genuinely nice improvements with the shutter speed. I also likely the WIFI ability - particularly that my wife could upload and share photos while on vacation, etc. without using a computer. However, I also like the weathersealing and integrated viewfinder of the EM5. I am not opposed to the external VF viewfinder - in fact I like that it may be higher quality - but also realize this is another accessory to carry around. Although with the OMD I would always have to have a flash as well. If I got the EP5 I would likely get the kit with the VF4 and 17mm lens. If I got the OMD I would get the kid with the 12-50mm lens.

Based upon the foregoing, I am looking for some honest advice as to which camera may be better to go with. I realize the OMD may be soon replaced but I cannot wait until that time as I am purchasing the camera before an upcoming vacation. I also realize that some say that the EP5 is overpriced - however, I would like to keep the discussion strictly to the merits of each camera. Any advice is appreciated - I have been so indecisive about this. Thanks.

Click to expand...

A beginner? Neither. Olympus menus are a swamp of choices waiting to baffle the newbie.

RobDMB said:

Rob Donchez wrote:

All:

I have been agonizing over my camera choice for months now and find it so hard to make a decision. I have considered Olympus camera from the beginning but also considered the Fuji XE-1. I am a little worried the Fuji XE-1 is too much camera for a beginner and concerned about the lack of touch screen, face detection, etc. I will be sharing the camera with my wife so the ability to have automatic settings available is important.

With that said, I like the m43 system and the olympus cameras in particular. The IBIS sounds fantastic and it seems like a system I could really grown into and learn with. However, I am torn between the EP5 and the OMD EM5. It seems the EP5 has some genuinely nice improvements with the shutter speed. I also likely the WIFI ability - particularly that my wife could upload and share photos while on vacation, etc. without using a computer. However, I also like the weathersealing and integrated viewfinder of the EM5. I am not opposed to the external VF viewfinder - in fact I like that it may be higher quality - but also realize this is another accessory to carry around. Although with the OMD I would always have to have a flash as well. If I got the EP5 I would likely get the kit with the VF4 and 17mm lens. If I got the OMD I would get the kid with the 12-50mm lens.

Based upon the foregoing, I am looking for some honest advice as to which camera may be better to go with. I realize the OMD may be soon replaced but I cannot wait until that time as I am purchasing the camera before an upcoming vacation. I also realize that some say that the EP5 is overpriced - however, I would like to keep the discussion strictly to the merits of each camera. Any advice is appreciated - I have been so indecisive about this. Thanks.

Click to expand...

The E-P5 is a slightly improved camera over the E-M5, but it lacks weather sealing (not so useful as yout hink because most of the lenses are not weather sealed, and the waether-sealed buttons are mush and hard to press), lacks a built-in viewfinder, and lacks the ability to use EVF and external flash at the same time. The E-P5 has built-in flash, but the E-M5 comes with a free add-on flash that's pretty small and light, and maybe the same size as the monstrously huge VF-4 that comes in the E-P5 kit.



I assume you are a rich beginner so there's no need to advise you that you can get maybe 95% as good a camera for a lot less money.

pcake said:

pcake wrote:

that being said, the lens selection on the micro four thirds system is much better, and to me, that's a very good thing.

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I take it you're saying m43 has more lens choices, not better ones? Because whatever we think of Fuji and its X-Trans sensor, their X-Mount lenses have been pretty excellent to date.

I would kill for an m43 kit zoom that's as good as the Fuji 18-55.

Savas Kyprianides said:

Savas Kyprianides wrote:

A beginner? Neither. Olympus menus are a swamp of choices waiting to baffle the newbie.

Click to expand...

The newbie will be fine as soon as he figures out how to use the super control panel.

Savas Kyprianides said:

Savas Kyprianides wrote:

Savas Kyprianides said:

Rob Donchez wrote:

All:

I have been agonizing over my camera choice for months now and find it so hard to make a decision. I have considered Olympus camera from the beginning but also considered the Fuji XE-1. I am a little worried the Fuji XE-1 is too much camera for a beginner and concerned about the lack of touch screen, face detection, etc. I will be sharing the camera with my wife so the ability to have automatic settings available is important.

With that said, I like the m43 system and the olympus cameras in particular. The IBIS sounds fantastic and it seems like a system I could really grown into and learn with. However, I am torn between the EP5 and the OMD EM5. It seems the EP5 has some genuinely nice improvements with the shutter speed. I also likely the WIFI ability - particularly that my wife could upload and share photos while on vacation, etc. without using a computer. However, I also like the weathersealing and integrated viewfinder of the EM5. I am not opposed to the external VF viewfinder - in fact I like that it may be higher quality - but also realize this is another accessory to carry around. Although with the OMD I would always have to have a flash as well. If I got the EP5 I would likely get the kit with the VF4 and 17mm lens. If I got the OMD I would get the kid with the 12-50mm lens.

Based upon the foregoing, I am looking for some honest advice as to which camera may be better to go with. I realize the OMD may be soon replaced but I cannot wait until that time as I am purchasing the camera before an upcoming vacation. I also realize that some say that the EP5 is overpriced - however, I would like to keep the discussion strictly to the merits of each camera. Any advice is appreciated - I have been so indecisive about this. Thanks.

Click to expand...

A beginner? Neither. Olympus menus are a swamp of choices waiting to baffle the newbie.

Click to expand...

totally agree,if you are a real beginner get yoursellf a superzoom (FZ200?) with full manual capability
You'll have great fun, take great pictures and you will learn allt the right questions that you need to ask when you move up.

I am by no means insinuating that money is not important. Just that I have saved and budgeted and am willing to spend the amount that each costs. However, if it is a waste I am certainly open to other options to save money.