All this Adobe flaming

John1940 · May 12, 2013

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
Per Inge Oestmoen wrote:

Many users want software that a) Resides in our computer b) is capable of being copied and backed up for re-installations c) can be installed and run independent from the manufacturer and d) can be run indefinitely and without restrictions and with no ties to the manufacturer.

Yes, I've noticed that over the last 50 years, and I agree. The problem for a one-man company or Adobe is that it gets stolen and there is no revenue after the first sale.

If I write something very specific for a customer, I get paid and they can do whatever they want with the software. If there are to be multiple sales the company (me, for example) would be giving away the crown jewels by meeting your requirements. The software would become freeware.

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
If the software fail to meet all these criteria, it creates a vulnerable system and must be rejected conclusively.

You've got to be kidding.

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
- Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

John1940

TrapperJohn · May 12, 2013

Just as D800's and 1Dxxx's aren't owned exclusively by working professionals, PS isn't owned just by professionals. There is a substantial block of customers who don't 'really need' the latest PS, but buy it anyway. I strongly suspect that the percentage of pro to non pro ownership of PS is skewed in the direction of non pros, just as it is with high end FF cameras.

By the numbers, this isn't a bad thing for pros. The price comes out about the same to them, in fact it may have some tax advantages, certainly makes depreciation a lot simpler, and keeps the pros from having to fork over a big chunk of money every couple of years. The cloud feature... if Adobe follows it's corporate culture and puts performance at a premium over reliability, a few outages will put the cloud thing where it belongs - in the wastebasket.

However, they've drawn the ire of their consumer segment, because that segment bought PS largely on emotion and perception, not after a careful cost analysis.

This, I believe, is Adobe's miscalculation - that they are in a vertical market, and their customer base proceeds on the basis of careful cost analysis. They may find that a larger percentage of their customer base than they anticipated, is actually the more fickle consumer market.

And that will cost Adobe. It will cost them revenue, and it will open the door for a competitive product to start raking in huge profits. Contrast this move with Apple, probably the most successful hardware/software/services company. Apple's products are high priced, but they sell well on the basis of two factors: the perception of quality, and the perception of being treated like a valued customer. Apple knows just how fickle that market can be, and they go to great lengths to treat that paying customer base with kid gloves.

The funny thing is - in the tech world, the pros tend to follow the consumer. When the consumer buys, they buy big time, and the product becomes cheap. Then, the pros move in on a cost/benefit basis. So there's double danger - if this wholesale outrage gives rise to a consumer PS product from a competitor, that company will have the funding to challenge Adobe in the pro market.

Dumb move, Adobe. You should have offered the subscription as an option, and kept one time pricing as well. That's what MS did with Office.

The pros would go for the subscription, while the consumers would have stuck with the one time pricing. The consumer market is not necessarily logical, and it doesn't necessarily respond in a logical manner. You can get rich off of it on sheer volume, or it can turn on you in an instant, with just one misstep.

David Hull · May 12, 2013

That's why I said time will tell. They have left themselves an out by offering a $10 introductory price (which can be made permanent if sales show that it needs to be). They also have the option of beefing up PSE for the low end user. It will be interesting to see how this all sorts out, if they are really leaving as much money on the floor as you seem to thing, that is good news since someone will be along soon to gather it up.

John1940 · May 12, 2013

Thanks, TJ

MrScary · May 12, 2013

I need to ask some questions here, if I may..

Not a question, but I'm as angry as some with Adobe going the Cloud..BUT, here are the questions.

(1) Only 500,000 have signed up to the cloud. Not many is it?..Does that mean about 2 million or more have not and will not?? Sounds like it. So is Adobe making a Good Profit on just 500,000 users. ? If So, I can see why it is SOooo Expensive as that means they can disspense with the rest of us..

(2) Adobe PS 3/4/5 still works with older DSLRs etc. Am I correct on this ?

(3) Adobe PS6 works with recent DSLRs etc..? Am I correct ?

(4) Lightroom still works, no matter which version you got. ?

(5) Majority of us only use Photoshop & or Lightroom ? I think I correct on this..

(6) Majority of us use RAW, if it was JPG I don't think you would have a lot of Angry Adobe users..? Am I correct on this ?

(7) SO--I open my Lightroom 4 or Photoshop 5 or 6 If 5 I have a choise to buy 6 as that at this moment looks what we should do. Yes or No ?

I then open my RAW (as I do now) and do my changes. Lightroom opens it as a EDIT TIFF in Photoshop. If No Photoshop, you open in whatever you got as a Tiff, I now have my RAW and Tiff file. I work on my Tiff until it is finished. (I don't use psd as I think Tiff is just as Good) I save it. Does NOT matter whether I use Layers Or Do Not use layers (I don't use unless my Add-on programs use it, like Colour Effex Pro4).

(8) What I'm trying to get across is this, I Hope..Nothing is going to change for us who do not want to go CC, is It ? Photoshop still works, Lightroom still works. Yes ?

(9) NOW! for the $50,000 question-- If we All buy PSCS6 and the New Lightroom (so that we Own it) My Canon 7D is still going to be recognised (YES) So are All cameras up to now like Nikon 800D. (YES) What happens after a new camera comes out ? Will adobe still update the RAW for new cameras in PSCS6 & Lightroom 5 ???????????? If So, I do not see any problems.

If NOT, there should still not be much of a problem. RAW is what we are concerned about in it ?

Other programs will open your RAW file and edit it, then you can open your Tiff in PSCS4/5 or 6 YES?? Off Course you Can..So if All my Questions Above are Correct, What the Heck is All the fuss about. ?

Answers Please.....

John1940 · May 12, 2013

I think all my answers are below, but I had to leave my PC for an hour and, even though I saved my reply on the clipboard, the colors flipped on me because DPR has a time limit on posting.

MrScary said:
MrScary wrote:

MrScary said:

MrScary wrote:

I need to ask some questions here, if I may..

Not a question, but I'm as angry as some with Adobe going the Cloud..BUT, here are the questions.

(1) Only 500,000 have signed up to the cloud. Not many is it?..Does that mean about 2 million or more have not and will not?? Sounds like it. So is Adobe making a Good Profit on just 500,000 users. ? If So, I can see why it is SOooo Expensive as that means they can disspense with the rest of us..

Click to expand...

I cannot comment on your data or calculation.

MrScary said:

(2) Adobe PS 3/4/5 still works with older DSLRs etc. Am I correct on this ?

Click to expand...

You probably are correct.

MrScary said:

(3) Adobe PS6 works with recent DSLRs etc..? Am I correct ?

Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct. I still have PS6 in one PC.

MrScary said:

(4) Lightroom still works, no matter which version you got. ?

Click to expand...

Pobably true. I have LR4.

MrScary said:

(5) Majority of us only use Photoshop & or Lightroom ? I think I correct on this..

Click to expand...

Probably true, except for RAW conversion. I often use Canon's DPP also. And I am trying other programs. But, I'm basically an Adobe user.

MrScary said:

(6) Majority of us use RAW, if it was JPG I don't think you would have a lot of Angry Adobe users..? Am I correct on this ?

Click to expand...

I started with scanned 35 mm slides and negatives and TIFF outputs in the late 1990s, and still do it sporadically. I actually use PS features more in editing or correcting those old pictures that are as old as 50 years in some cases. But, I agree with you WRT RAW for digital cameras.

MrScary said:

(7) SO--I open my Lightroom 4 or Photoshop 5 or 6 If 5 I have a choise to buy 6 as that at this moment looks what we should do. Yes or No ?

I then open my RAW (as I do now) and do my changes. Lightroom opens it as a EDIT TIFF in Photoshop. If No Photoshop, you open in whatever you got as a Tiff, I now have my RAW and Tiff file. I work on my Tiff until it is finished. (I don't use psd as I think Tiff is just as Good) I save it. Does NOT matter whether I use Layers Or Do Not use layers (I don't use unless my Add-on programs use it, like Colour Effex Pro4).

(8) What I'm trying to get across is this, I Hope..Nothing is going to change for us who do not want to go CC, is It ? Photoshop still works, Lightroom still works. Yes ?

Click to expand...

Yes.

MrScary said:

(9) NOW! for the $50,000 question-- If we All buy PSCS6 and the New Lightroom (so that we Own it) My Canon 7D is still going to be recognised (YES) So are All cameras up to now like Nikon 800D. (YES) What happens after a new camera comes out ? Will adobe still update the RAW for new cameras in PSCS6 & Lightroom 5 ???????????? If So, I do not see any problems.

Click to expand...

I agree.

MrScary said:

If NOT, there should still not be much of a problem. RAW is what we are concerned about in it ?

Click to expand...

You can still use Canon's DPP for Canon 7D RAW conversion, and it's just as good as ACR or slightly better. Same is true for Nikon with its RAW converter for any DSLR such as D800.

MrScary said:

Other programs will open your RAW file and edit it, then you can open your Tiff in PSCS4/5 or 6 YES??

Click to expand...

Yes

MrScary said:

Off Course you Can..So if All my Questions Above are Correct, What the Heck is All the fuss about. ?

Click to expand...

You will not be able to use all the new features in PSCS13 when it comes out, for example. This affects really serious hobbyists hardest because they might need those new features and cannot write off the cost of upgrade, unlike pros.

Also, most folks, including me, like to own software rather than renting it, so to speak. But, I'm used to it with Google Earth Pro. If I don't subscribe for $400 for a new year on time, the software is still in my PC but it cannot be used at all, and I lose all map data that I stored at Google. (See one of my recent posts to ljfinger on this).

Hope this helps. And I hope it's all correct. Sorry about the color scheme.
Regards,

John1940

rattymouse · May 12, 2013

More abject nonsense. Let me know when you turn on your brain and post a real reply.

rattymouse · May 12, 2013

David Hull said:
David Hull wrote:

That's why I said time will tell. They have left themselves an out by offering a $10 introductory price (which can be made permanent if sales show that it needs to be). They also have the option of beefing up PSE for the low end user. It will be interesting to see how this all sorts out, if they are really leaving as much money on the floor as you seem to thing, that is good news since someone will be along soon to gather it up.

rattymouse · May 12, 2013

Last week Adobe's stock fell hard. It will be interesting to see how this week does.

rattymouse · May 12, 2013

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
Per Inge Oestmoen wrote:

Many users want software that a) Resides in our computer b) is capable of being copied and backed up for re-installations c) can be installed and run independent from the manufacturer and d) can be run indefinitely and without restrictions and with no ties to the manufacturer. If the software fail to meet all these criteria, it creates a vulnerable system and must be rejected conclusively. This will be a great opportunity for Open Source software, which gives the choice and the freedom back to the user.
- Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

Absolutely right.

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All this Adobe flaming

John1940

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