OMD seems expensive compared to GH3 now....

Daniel Lauring wrote:
Panasonic has shown the ability to make cameras with fantastic image stabilization...see the FZ200 or the LX7. Too bad they don't apply the same technology to their m43 offerings.
They use the same approach as in their m4/3 cameras: It's build into the lens vs. sensor shift. So if you follow that paradigm with an interchangeable lens camera, voila, you need to build it into each and every lens.

Sony is the brand that puzzles me. They have a perfectly good sensor-shift IS in their Alpha bodies (A500, A55, A77 etc.) but none in the NEX line, which then requires it in the lenses.
 
PC Wheeler wrote:
Daniel Lauring wrote:
Panasonic has shown the ability to make cameras with fantastic image stabilization...see the FZ200 or the LX7. Too bad they don't apply the same technology to their m43 offerings.
They use the same approach as in their m4/3 cameras: It's build into the lens vs. sensor shift. So if you follow that paradigm with an interchangeable lens camera, voila, you need to build it into each and every lens.

Sony is the brand that puzzles me. They have a perfectly good sensor-shift IS in their Alpha bodies (A

500, A55, A77 etc.) but none in the NEX line, which then requires it in the lenses.
They optimized the NEX bodies for size. Those ultra thin bodies don't have a lot of room.

 
tgutgu wrote:
I think your analysis is right. For the E-M5, it took almost a year in Germany to see the first permanent significant price drops with many dealers still selling the camera at the original price. I haven't seen any camera performing like this. Even Nikon D600 saw a price drop very quickly.
So, it seems that GH3 sales, after the usual initial run, does not do quite well.

I bet there are three reasons:

a) Too large body. While there are some mirrorless buyers, who waited exactly for such a body, the amount of potential buyers, who are put off by the size, is much larger. Those buy E-M5 cameras or just DSLRs, especially when they already own a DSLR system. The GH3 is simply too big and not different enough to swap from DSLR to mirrorless. The E-M5 is significantly smaller, even with the HDL-6 grip. It has an appealing design, very different to the black classic DSLR design. The GH3 has the same problem as Olympus DSLR 4/3 products, it does not "transport" m4/3 main selling advantage: smaller size. The E-M5 does it. Initial reactions to the E-M5 usually were: "Wow, how small is it!" whereas the GH3 was received with: "Uff, it's that big?".

Also, the GH3's ergonomics is overrated. The placement of the button near the shutter demand finger acrobatics, and they are too easy to confuse. The camera feels too large in hands for traditional Panasonic body owners. This puts off too many loyal G/GHx body owner, making them switch to the E-M5.

It is a mistake by Panasonic not to evolve the excellent GH2 body concept, which is ergonomically better. The G5 shows, where a GH2 successor should have moved to.

b) The view finder. Although many people here deny it or claim that they could get used to: the GH3 EVF is far from being, what it should have been by end of 2012. In my opinion it is bad, most of people would call it fair, not optimal. However, for a flagship product at that price, it should have been excellent. Because the GH3 was released around half a year after the E-M5, the EVF should have been better than the E-M5 finder, which it isn't. It is not only the edge smearing but also that it shows details less clear.

For sales, that means that it is likely tat people looking through the GH3 finder when testing the camera in a shop, are likely to be dismayed by the finder. The finder is an important, if not the most important, part of a camera with a build in view finder. It is critical for the essential function of a camera: framing. So, based on the first impression of the finder, people may just refrain from buying.

c) Overrating of video. Many buyers simply don't have a strong demand to produce high quality video. Still photographers, which have tried video, realize that it is too much effort and time consuming to produce aesthetically good video, like they do with their stills. Results are often disappointing and the video function is less and less used. It was probably already so with the GH2, and despite of this, Panasonic even increased the video profile and marketing of the GH3. I consider this a mistake. Enthusiast photographers aren't as interested in video as Panasonic product strategy implies. Being marketed as a video camera, the usual stills photographers asks, why do I need it. The view finder is in part so problematic, because it is made for video aspect ratio 16:9, which only a minority uses as a stills aspect ratio permanently. So here it appears that the video aspect of the camera has negatively affected the photography aspect of it.. Additionally, Panasonic unfortunately dropped a unique feature of the former GH series: the multiaspect sensor, which would be ideal for such a hybrid camera as the GH3.

In the end, it is probably also the DSLR competition, which forces the GH3 prices to drop. With the D7100, Nikon set a new landmark into GH3 territory. The E-M5 is not affected as much, due to the unique design and its smallness. Stills photographers are also increasingly appealed by the Fuji X cameras, for which both, Panasonic and Olympus, have no answer yet. The GH3 is the antipode (and actually too much of it) of a Fuji X-E1.

It is unfortunate that Panasonic has such an unstable product strategy. With the movements from GF1 to GF3, from G2 to G3, and now from GH2 to GH3, they put off too many loyal customers, which mostly want improvements to their products, which they already own, instead of being confronted with completely different concepts, to which they don't agree. As a G2 owner, I would have never switched to a G3 (less controls, no eye sensor, too small). A GF1 owner was not necessarily appealed with the GF3, and now, there is no replacement for the GH2. So I switched to E-M5.

From a product strategy point, for the stills photographers, IBIS is probably a more convincing feature than video. Even more so as Panasonic is itself inconsequent by having too many unstabilized lenses in its own portfolio. As such a stills photographer has to pay a lot for the total hybrid concept of the GH3: view finder, no IBIS, larger lenses (OIS makes them larger).

With the GH3, Panasonic has disappointed too many and did not win enough, and is still not able to solve its classic US supply problem.

Thomas
Great analysis. Bottom line, I think the GH3 is more of a niche camera, and as such will never sell enough to see a low price. It will still have many fans (already does), but I doubt it will ever become as popular as the EM5. Prices will reflect this.
 
Last edited:
nekrosoft13 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.

Jakob
well oly is much better camera with higher demand.
How do you figure that the OMD is a better camera since the GH3 is also a professional level video camera with huge demand from HDSLR videographer types?

If fact I'd argue that the GH3 is more versatile since it can actually be used for professional level video production. So with the GH3 you are getting much more for your money as it's a hybrid camera that is great at both still and video.

Still IQ is very similar with both cameras, but video specs and performance are significantly better with the GH3.
 
marike6 wrote:
nekrosoft13 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.

Jakob
well oly is much better camera with higher demand.
How do you figure that the OMD is a better camera since the GH3 is also a professional level video camera with huge demand from HDSLR videographer types?

If fact I'd argue that the GH3 is more versatile since it can actually be used for professional level video production. So with the GH3 you are getting much more for your money as it's a hybrid camera that is great at both still and video.

Still IQ is very similar with both cameras, but video specs and performance are significantly better with the GH3.
There are a lot of ignorant posters when it comes to technical knowledge. Many will claim a camera is better based on its color, size, and ergonomics. This is typical of stating one car is better than another because it's blue.

The GH3 has the same sensor as the OMD-E-M5, yet its video capabilities far surpass that of the OMD. The GH3 has more buttons and functions for video,inputs/outputs etc and is capable of far more video formats and configurations. The still quality is the same. Which camera is technically better? Which camera is smaller? These are two different things.
 
marike6 wrote:
nekrosoft13 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.

Jakob
well oly is much better camera with higher demand.
How do you figure that the OMD is a better camera since the GH3 is also a professional level video camera with huge demand from HDSLR videographer types?

If fact I'd argue that the GH3 is more versatile since it can actually be used for professional level video production. So with the GH3 you are getting much more for your money as it's a hybrid camera that is great at both still and video.

Still IQ is very similar with both cameras, but video specs and performance are significantly better with the GH3.
Depends on the definition of better. The average consumers is more than happy with the OM-D's HD video. The average consumer is thrilled by a revolutionary IBIS system that makes handheld video appear as if it was taken from a tripod.

There are more average consumers than people interested in high end video features.
 
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.
When you consider that the GH3 is actually a hybrid camera with still photo abilities equivalent to the OMD and professional level video features packaged in a more robust body that is meant for work (and play), then yes, the OMD absolutely seems too expensive.

The GH3 is a more versatile and for many a more desirable camera as it can be used for professional level video productions similar to a Canon 5D Mk III or D800. The same cannot be said for the OMD which has decent video, but really only an amateur grade feature set with simple 1080p30.

And at $200 more than the OMD, the GH3 is a bargain considering the GH3 shares many features and has comparable IQ to Panasonic's AG-AF100 which sells for over $4000.
 
marike6 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.
When you consider that the GH3 is actually a hybrid camera with still photo abilities equivalent to the OMD and professional level video features packaged in a more robust body that is meant for work (and play), then yes, the OMD absolutely seems too expensive.

The GH3 is a more versatile and for many a more desirable camera as it can be used for professional level video productions similar to a Canon 5D Mk III or D800. The same cannot be said for the OMD which has decent video, but really only an amateur grade feature set with simple 1080p30.

And at $200 more than the OMD, the GH3 is a bargain considering the GH3 shares many features and has comparable IQ to Panasonic's AG-AF100 which sells for over $4000.
Yes, but as many have pointed out... that's only if you want video. I have a passing interest in video, but not enough to want the GH3 at the price it's at. Hmm. I should correct that. Not at the price it will cost me. See, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, for truly impressive video, I think I'd want (and maybe need, as an amateur, though pros could probably do better):

Ether the two 2.8 zooms to get OIS from 12-100mm
or:
Camera stabilization setup such as steadicam, glidecam, etc. I'd have to learn em too, but I am not against learning new things.
I'd probably also be tempted to look at cine style lenses, like the 12mm SLR magic, and iirc, the CV lenses are stepless aperture as well.

For the first, the only way that would be efficient for me would be to sell all my primes. I personally like primes more than zoom, but that differs by person. For me, the video doesn't have enough appeal. I also am not used to the DSLR bodies, so the ergonomics aren't that tempting(though I'm pretty sure the grip would be better). I like smaller bodies, the GX1 body, style, size, and grip all impressed me. The OMD impresses me in body, size, and style, and unlike others, I enjoyed the controls (moving from the gx1). A few controls annoyed me, but full customization and the 3 wheels especially were great. I bought a third party grip at $49, which is good enough for me. I may buy the grip in the future, or a different one, but no pressing need.

The GH3 just doesn't appeal to me. This isn't me being a Olympus fan, I started m43 with the GX1. I also have the LX7 and love it. I have a GF3(not too impressed, but useful). Still, OMD has been my best camera. The IBIS is so good, I can't think I'd part with it, without changing how I do things, especially in reference to zooms and primes.
 
marike6 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.
When you consider that the GH3 is actually a hybrid camera with still photo abilities equivalent to the OMD and professional level video features packaged in a more robust body that is meant for work (and play), then yes, the OMD absolutely seems too expensive.

The GH3 is a more versatile and for many a more desirable camera as it can be used for professional level video productions similar to a Canon 5D Mk III or D800. The same cannot be said for the OMD which has decent video, but really only an amateur grade feature set with simple 1080p30.

And at $200 more than the OMD, the GH3 is a bargain considering the GH3 shares many features and has comparable IQ to Panasonic's AG-AF100 which sells for over $4000.
It is a fundamentally wrong assumption that a large number of stills photographers is interested in pro level video. For the many camera buyers, who don't care about video or just use it rarely for documentary, the GH3 is no bargain at all. You pay a lot for something you don't need. The majority of stills photographers would probably easily exchange the video stuff (except the usual basics) for a good IBIS and completely forget about WiFi and the app stuff. The E-M5 is a camera, streamlined for stills, what better can a photographer wish?

For stills photographers, the GH3 has too much superfluous features and lacks essentials, such as an acceptable view finder and IBIS. The ergonomics aren't worlds apart from the E-M5 too, as the GH3 also has its usability quibbles. And all that in a bulky DSLR package.

So, GH3, not really a bargain.

--
Thomas
 
Last edited:
tgutgu wrote:
marike6 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.
When you consider that the GH3 is actually a hybrid camera with still photo abilities equivalent to the OMD and professional level video features packaged in a more robust body that is meant for work (and play), then yes, the OMD absolutely seems too expensive.

The GH3 is a more versatile and for many a more desirable camera as it can be used for professional level video productions similar to a Canon 5D Mk III or D800. The same cannot be said for the OMD which has decent video, but really only an amateur grade feature set with simple 1080p30.

And at $200 more than the OMD, the GH3 is a bargain considering the GH3 shares many features and has comparable IQ to Panasonic's AG-AF100 which sells for over $4000.
It is a fundamentally wrong assumption that a large number of stills photographers is interested in pro level video. For the many camera buyers, who don't care about video or just use it rarely for documentary, the GH3 is no bargain at all. You pay a lot for something you don't need. The majority of stills photographers would probably easily exchange the video stuff (except the usual basics) for a good IBIS and completely forget about WiFi and the app stuff. The E-M5 is a camera, streamlined for stills, what better can a photographer wish?
Because DPR is primarily a website for photographers doesn't mean the video features in the GH3 don't have immeasurable value to a large number of users (spend an hour on Vimeo or EOSHD, and see the kind of mindshare that the GH series has). The point is you are getting a heck of a lot with a GH3 - 1080p60, and 1080p24 at 72 mbps (All-Intra), an external 3.5mm mini-jack for a microphone, and a headphone jack for audio monitoring, and more. Similar to if grandma doesn't appreciate the fact that a BMW Z3 Roadster has 3,000 CCs, the fact that some photographers have little interest in the GH3's video capabilities does not diminish it's value to the larger market of imaging professionals.

With all the high end video features, virtually the same IQ as the OMD, and an extremely robust casing that doesn't need require a $250 portrait grip to make it ergonomically useable like the OMD, I'd say the GH3 is a bargain and I'd have to agree to a certain extent with the OP's premise.
 
marike6 wrote:
tgutgu wrote:
marike6 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.
When you consider that the GH3 is actually a hybrid camera with still photo abilities equivalent to the OMD and professional level video features packaged in a more robust body that is meant for work (and play), then yes, the OMD absolutely seems too expensive.

The GH3 is a more versatile and for many a more desirable camera as it can be used for professional level video productions similar to a Canon 5D Mk III or D800. The same cannot be said for the OMD which has decent video, but really only an amateur grade feature set with simple 1080p30.

And at $200 more than the OMD, the GH3 is a bargain considering the GH3 shares many features and has comparable IQ to Panasonic's AG-AF100 which sells for over $4000.
It is a fundamentally wrong assumption that a large number of stills photographers is interested in pro level video. For the many camera buyers, who don't care about video or just use it rarely for documentary, the GH3 is no bargain at all. You pay a lot for something you don't need. The majority of stills photographers would probably easily exchange the video stuff (except the usual basics) for a good IBIS and completely forget about WiFi and the app stuff. The E-M5 is a camera, streamlined for stills, what better can a photographer wish?
Because DPR is primarily a website for photographers doesn't mean the video features in the GH3 don't have immeasurable value to a large number of users (spend an hour on Vimeo or EOSHD, and see the kind of mindshare that the GH series has). The point is you are getting a heck of a lot with a GH3 - 1080p60, and 1080p24 at 72 mbps (All-Intra), an external 3.5mm mini-jack for a microphone, and a headphone jack for audio monitoring, and more. Similar to if grandma doesn't appreciate the fact that a BMW Z3 Roadster has 3,000 CCs, the fact that some photographers have little interest in the GH3's video capabilities does not diminish it's value to the larger market of imaging professionals.

With all the high end video features, virtually the same IQ as the OMD, and an extremely robust casing that doesn't need require a $250 portrait grip to make it ergonomically useable like the OMD, I'd say the GH3 is a bargain and I'd have to agree to a certain extent with the OP's premise.
Yes. I'd be interested to know how many GH3 owners use their camera commercially to make money, as opposed to OMD owners. I think the OMD could be used for pictures on the web etc, but the OMD is more of a hobbyist's camera. If I were a photographer, I'd use a FF. No question.
 
marike6 wrote:
tgutgu wrote:
marike6 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.
When you consider that the GH3 is actually a hybrid camera with still photo abilities equivalent to the OMD and professional level video features packaged in a more robust body that is meant for work (and play), then yes, the OMD absolutely seems too expensive.

The GH3 is a more versatile and for many a more desirable camera as it can be used for professional level video productions similar to a Canon 5D Mk III or D800. The same cannot be said for the OMD which has decent video, but really only an amateur grade feature set with simple 1080p30.

And at $200 more than the OMD, the GH3 is a bargain considering the GH3 shares many features and has comparable IQ to Panasonic's AG-AF100 which sells for over $4000.
It is a fundamentally wrong assumption that a large number of stills photographers is interested in pro level video. For the many camera buyers, who don't care about video or just use it rarely for documentary, the GH3 is no bargain at all. You pay a lot for something you don't need. The majority of stills photographers would probably easily exchange the video stuff (except the usual basics) for a good IBIS and completely forget about WiFi and the app stuff. The E-M5 is a camera, streamlined for stills, what better can a photographer wish?
Because DPR is primarily a website for photographers doesn't mean the video features in the GH3 don't have immeasurable value to a large number of users (spend an hour on Vimeo or EOSHD, and see the kind of mindshare that the GH series has). The point is you are getting a heck of a lot with a GH3 - 1080p60, and 1080p24 at 72 mbps (All-Intra), an external 3.5mm mini-jack for a microphone, and a headphone jack for audio monitoring, and more. Similar to if grandma doesn't appreciate the fact that a BMW Z3 Roadster has 3,000 CCs, the fact that some photographers have little interest in the GH3's video capabilities does not diminish it's value to the larger market of imaging professionals.

With all the high end video features, virtually the same IQ as the OMD, and an extremely robust casing that doesn't need require a $250 portrait grip to make it ergonomically useable like the OMD, I'd say the GH3 is a bargain and I'd have to agree to a certain extent with the OP's premise.
It might be that videographers aren't much represented here, but that does not make my statements wrong. It is highly unlikely, that the amount of buyers of flagship cameras like the E-M5 or GH3, that also have interest in pro level video, is that high. The notion that the OMD is less ergonomic than the GH3 is misleading. The OMD is a modular camera so that you can adjust your camera regarding size or ergonomics. That isn't possible with the GH3, it is always bulky. The GH3 has its ergonomic quirks too, bigger body size does not equal to better ergonomics. If I consider the almost loose card door of the GH3, I would rate the OMD as more robust than the GH3.

So, the GH3 isn't itself a better bargain, it depends on your needs. As I said previously, for the enthusiast stills photographer (which probably represents a much larger group than pro level videographers) to have IBIS is a better deal than to have all the blows and whistles about video and a camera totally adapted to video, with the result of a too much compromised view finder.
 
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.

Jakob
Even at the same price I think the OM-D will sell better. Looks are appealing more I think, even though it is taste. But apart from looks, the IBIS is still a big thing, the size of the GH3 seems a big thing too...;-). OM-D does not seem to be lagging anywwhere bar video, so to those who are serious with video the GH3 is clearly the better choice.

Panasonic was trailing Olympus ever since the OM-D came out and caught on. Panaosnic did not overtake Oly with this cam, I think, for most users.
 
EM5 vs GH3 DxOMark Test

I like both bodies a lot, but ss I've said, they have identical IQ regarding still photography, but the GH3 has some class leading video specs / capabilities. That's why I firmly believe the OPs premise is accurate.

Everybody here has their favorites but when you look at the bigger picture, it would be hard to argue that the OMD is a better deal, unless all you ever do is shoot stills. For a multimedia, photojournalist, documentary photographer it would be hard to find a better value than the GH3 (unless you start adding in the cost of the way overpriced f2.8 Pany zooms). But body for body, I'd have to give the edge to the Panasonic, but that's only because I have an interest in, and have dabbled in video with my GH2 and FF body. So depending on needs and who you ask, each can be viewed as a better value, but I think it's possible to make a stronger case for the GH3 just by adding the versatility argument.

Cheers and happy shooting, Markus
 
marike6 wrote:

EM5 vs GH3 DxOMark Test

I like both bodies a lot, but ss I've said, they have identical IQ regarding still photography, but the GH3 has some class leading video specs / capabilities. That's why I firmly believe the OPs premise is accurate.

Everybody here has their favorites but when you look at the bigger picture, it would be hard to argue that the OMD is a better deal, unless all you ever do is shoot stills. For a multimedia, photojournalist, documentary photographer it would be hard to find a better value than the GH3 (unless you start adding in the cost of the way overpriced f2.8 Pany zooms). But body for body, I'd have to give the edge to the Panasonic, but that's only because I have an interest in, and have dabbled in video with my GH2 and FF body. So depending on needs and who you ask, each can be viewed as a better value, but I think it's possible to make a stronger case for the GH3 just by adding the versatility argument.

Cheers and happy shooting, Markus
Your argument only makes sense if there are only two qualities of a camera: IQ and video. But there aren't: the OMD has IBIS, better blinkies (liveview), what most people consider a better jpeg engine, and most importantly a more compact size. Some people value those things, just like other people value the video capabilities of the GH3. So for you maybe the OMD is overpriced, but for others (who value the things you don't) it's not.
 
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??

Off course the Oly is great BUT it ceartainly is also quite a bit older than the GH3.

Jakob
...GH3 received an IBIS upgrade.
 
tgutgu wrote:
panolympus wrote:
Gregm61 wrote:
jagge wrote:

Allready now the GH3 price is dropping. In europe now only 100 eur more expensive than OMD. Is it just me or is the OMD looking more and more expensive ??
Sounds to me like one camera is still selling enough to warrant keeping it's price, and one is not.

--
"There's shadows in life, baby.." Jack Horner- Boogie Nights
Wow! Really? The OMD is on sale for $100 lower than regular price in a store near me, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean ALL the OMD prices are dropping worldwide. We see what we wanna see.
But the OMD is on the market since one year, whereas the GH3 a meager four months, seeing already price drops. Not a good sign for the camera, but certainly good for buyers.

--
Thomas
What price drops? You mean because one OMD lover states the" GH3 price has dropped all over Europe", it's official? How did you come to the conclusion the price has dropped? Its the same price at all the major stores as far as Ive seen. :s
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top