Let's thrash focus peaking

Tom Caldwell

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Focus peaking.

I have talked about this before. No tests are made of it. No reviewer goes much beyond saying that this or that camera has focus peaking as if they are all the same, they are not.

Ricoh seems to my limited experience to have the two best methods of focus peaking in the business.

Ricoh's system:

Both modes: can be constantly live if switched on - even useful in auto focus where dof can usually be judged as well as the various item in the frame that are in focus - not just "a bunch of highlighted squares". Scaling - Ricoh's focus peaking scales with magnification and therefore always seems usefully right.

Mode1 when in use is not over-intrusive and can be usefully kept in place when "not using" focus peaking.

There is a choice of styles.

It is useful from unmagnified screen right through to full magnification.

Ricoh's focus peaking assist in both versions is so good that its qualities should be screamed from the hilltops to the masses. And yet not even Ricoh-mavins make much out of it.

In my experience other camera users blandly talk about focus peaking as being terribly good, simply because their camera "has it" and they have no way of comparing what the Ricoh version offers.

When I heard that Sony had focus peaking in the NEX, I naturally thought that it would be something similar to that in the Ricoh cameras. It even has the ability to change the thickness of the highlights and the highlighted colour can also be changed.

The let down of course is that these facilities are very necessary. Oh yes Sony focus peaking is good and very handy, it does work. At a normal view the thick lines are so visibly thick that it is hard to tell the precise focus, magnify the screen and they disappear! Sorry, not thick enough appareently, make them thicker - Sony does not appear to scale the focus peaking highlights to the screen magnificaton. Luckily their magnified screen is very precise and clear and eye-driven manual focus is easy even when focus peaking disappears. No focus peaking on auto focus, but I guess it is not really needed and might be doubtful if the "ink-blot" effect of Sony focus peaking on normal image view would go down well with auto focus. Hey, and soft-press the shutter button and the magnified view terminates and has to be re-invoked. How good is that?

Therefore I am a bit puzzled by Sony's implementation of focus peaking. Sometimes it works well, but it would seem that the line thickness needs to be manually changed depending on the lens used - one thickness might work well for wide lenses and another for telephoto. One thickness, just rigth for magnified view is blotchy-thick in nomal view. Therefore the best use might come from further experience. However from what I have seen over the last month the Sony focus peaking has a long long way to go before it is a pale shadow of what Ricoh offers.

My only other direct experience is on the Pentax Q - here Ricoh's Mode1 would work well but it is only usefully good to about 2x screen magification, but this is an lcd screen resolution problem more than it is any fault in Ricoh's firmware technology.

So others might comment on the focus peaking used my other manufacturers - is it any good? Or is Ricoh truly the only company with a real handle on the technique and all others talk focus peaking in their cameras as if it were merely another method of counting pixels. To have it is good even if it is far from the best implementation.

Ricoh owners feel free to criticise Ricoh over outdated this and that and including the inevitable sensor thrashing. But no one seems to acknowledge that Ricoh's focus peaking assist is the very best in the business.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
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Not quite on topic, but thanks to Tom C - I am now a mode 2 devotee. I used to use mode 1 for confirmation (the autofocus on my A12 50 had been fooled by strong contrast outside the focus area before), but on manual focussing I was disappointed as I could never get the eye/pupil in focus on a close up portrait - even in the mirror. After being mentioned in a few posts by Tom I tried mode 2 and found much better manual focussing of the A12 50 - much easier to get the eye right on a close up portrait. I guess it will be even better for manual focus lenses, but I don't have the M mount.

I'd be interested to know what is the Sony like for focussing precisely on pupils?

Thanks Tom,

Chris
 
For most of my life I've used manual focusing. Nikon F, Mamiya RB, 4x5 press and view cameras and so on. I've always used the method of focusing back and fourth around the focus point, narrowing in on each pass and then getting the final point more by feel than by sight. Now, with my Minolta Dimage cameras with manual "focus by wire," that is no longer possible, nor on the GRD4, and the magnified view on the GRD4 is worthless, so it's often a guess and taking several shots and hoping one of them will have the focus where I want it.

I've heard of the focus peaking on the GXR and can't wait to try it out. I recently bought a Sony a57 and must say that the focus peaking on this camera is mostly worthless. I've made many images which appeared to be sharp according to the focus peaking and yet they were way off, regardless of the different settings I've tried on the focus peaking. It may be better than shooting blind, but not much.

When I get (from Henry's this month, I hope) the GXR, the M module, and some manual lenses I may be able to once again "focus by feel." I am looking forward to having more control over critical focus than I've had in my digital imaging career to date.

- A.
 
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A Subset wrote:

For most of my life I've used manual focusing. Nikon F, Mamiya RB, 4x5 press and view cameras and so on. I've always used the method of focusing back and fourth around the focus point, narrowing in on each pass and then getting the final point more by feel than by sight. Now, with my Minolta Dimage cameras with manual "focus by wire," that is no longer possible, nor on the GRD4, and the magnified view on the GRD4 is worthless, so it's often a guess and taking several shots and hoping one of them will have the focus where I want it.

I've heard of the focus peaking on the GXR and can't wait to try it out. I recently bought a Sony a57 and must say that the focus peaking on this camera is mostly worthless. I've made many images which appeared to be sharp according to the focus peaking and yet they were way off, regardless of the different settings I've tried on the focus peaking. It may be better than shooting blind, but not much.

When I get (from Henry's this month, I hope) the GXR, the M module, and some manual lenses I may be able to once again "focus by feel." I am looking forward to having more control over critical focus than I've had in my digital imaging career to date.

- A.
I think you will enjoy it.
 
chrisnga wrote:

Not quite on topic, but thanks to Tom C - I am now a mode 2 devotee. I used to use mode 1 for confirmation (the autofocus on my A12 50 had been fooled by strong contrast outside the focus area before), but on manual focussing I was disappointed as I could never get the eye/pupil in focus on a close up portrait - even in the mirror. After being mentioned in a few posts by Tom I tried mode 2 and found much better manual focussing of the A12 50 - much easier to get the eye right on a close up portrait. I guess it will be even better for manual focus lenses, but I don't have the M mount.

I'd be interested to know what is the Sony like for focussing precisely on pupils?

Thanks Tom,

Chris
Chris, to give Sony it's due, the magnified view is super sharp and it could be argued that focus peaking is unecessary. The Ricoh screens are very sharp as well and it could also be argued that focus peaking is unecessary on a Ricoh camera, but you get the choice. I can get both mode1 and mode2 focus peaking to focus on eyelashes. Technically the Sony should also be able to do this but I find it more hit and miss.

After my post I checked the focus peaking on the Sony NEX6 fitted with a Canon EF 135mm f2.0 lens and an RJ glassless electronic adapter. This allows direct electronic control of the Canon lens by the NEX6. The auto focus of the lens actually works with the RJ adapter up to about 50-60 metres after which it seems to want to only do MF. Sony focus peaking does not work on AF (period). On MF standard resolution focus peaking can be seen sometimes, but none at all on any level of magnified view. I checked the "line thickness" - it was set as "low". I changed it to "high". Now with this lens it is easily seen on normal view and can be seen on first level of magnified view, but not at all on the second level. I am sure that if I switched to a wide angle lens then focus peaking would be right in my face at all levels of magnification. Furthermore at standard (non-magnified) screen with a wide angle lens the highlight lines are so thick (ink blot/bleed?) as to make precise focus not very accurate. Of course you can get back into the menu and change the highlight line thickness to "low" at which point it becomes satisfactory for wide lenses.

This has led me to conclude that the Sony focus peaking is not scaled and that the "feature" of being able to change the thickness of the highlight lines (and their colour) has been introduced as a work-around to cope with the Sony focus peaking inadequacies.

Of course over on Sony forum they really love focus peaking as if all focus peaking was made the same.

I find that Ricoh focus peaking (both modes) works the same no matter what lens is fitted, in AF, MF and at all levels of screen magnification in a seamless, and very effective way.

Therefore if a Sony owner hears that Ricoh has focus peaking he is unimpressed, he knows the full extent of focus peaking from his NEX experience.

Just recently there was a grave discussion on the NEX forum to the effect that the NEX body was the ideal body to which legacy manual lenses can be fitted. I might second this for the built in evf and tilt screen of the NEX6/7 but for everything else the GXR with M mount module must walk all over it, for many reasons.

Given that Sony owners only know what they have bought and use happily, we can simply just chalk up another Ricoh failure to get their message across.

Furthermore the review sites seem very reticent to compare focus peaking camera by camera.

Does anyone know of any definitive and objective comparison of the different focus peaking implementations?
 
Tom Caldwell wrote:
I find that Ricoh focus peaking (both modes) works the same no matter what lens is fitted, in AF, MF and at all levels of screen magnification in a seamless, and very effective way.
My K-01 only has one mode of focus peaking, but the above is how I would describe its function. I leave it active virtually all the time.
 
Hi,

Focus peaking works well you'll enjoy it :-) One note, I found the full screen magnified view to be the most accurate.

Cheers

Al
 
It is interesting to get responses from users of the Ricoh version of focus peaking. I would also hopefully like to hear some input from others who have tried non Pentax/Ricoh versions.

My only experience of how other versions work is from the Pentax Q and the Sony NEX6.

I think that the Pentax Q version is very similar to Ricoh's mode1 version (or perhaps a low-level hybrid with the mode2 version?) except it is limited to 4x zoom magnification only. By 4x magnification the Q's lower resolution screen is so pixelated that the focus peaking is of dubious utility value. At normal and 2x magnification it is effective but would surely "sing" if a higher resolution screen were used.

Obviously focus peaking needs a high resolution lcd - perhaps this is why some other manufacturers do not offer it?

The Sony version seems all over the place. Does not work on AF, does not always work on magnified screen (Sony only offers two levels of lcd magnification), can be fiddled with to tune to a particular lens in use. Is surprisingly effective and can easily be seen if shooting in B&W when it cannot be seen at all in the same imaging circumstances in colour. ???

Sony also has a situation that I find very annoying after the GXR - magnify the screen in MF mode to get focus - often without any sign of focus peaking indications - forget it - just use your eye-judgement - then soft press the shutter and it jumps back to normal view. Whilst in the GXR this is a toggle and on releasing the shutter button it will very usefully revert to the last magnified view - the Sony most annoyingly simply dumps the magnified view completely which has to be manually re-applied (each time). The RJ adapter at least allows AF to be tweaked when if has failed - as it tends to do at any significant distance. But it does not allow magnified view at the same time - consequentially you get normal non-magnified view without focus peaking assist (usually) to use your eye judgement for focus. But whilst this is taking process you have to keep the soft-press in place as if you release the shutter prematurely the camera will try again to re-focus once the shutter is re-pressed. A useful function as the AF has usually failed quite close to the mark. But your eyesight needs to be good.

Not that this is of much concern to Ricoh GXR users other than to show that the GXR is so much better configured for use in MF situations it is not funny. You "get by" with a Sony, the GXR is so precisely configured to a MF user's brainwaves it is not funny.

And yet there was a thread on the NEX forum just a few days (hours?) ago singing rhapsodies about how good the Sony NEX bodies were for legacy manual focus lenses.

Pity they are not about to try a Ricoh GXR-M for comparison purpose.

Therefore if the GXR does not get continued then there is a real loss for MF lens users - although the Sony is a fine camera it is not nearly as evolved as the GXR is in it's present form.
 
Well, I tried to talk about something that Ricoh seems to do better than anyone else. But like firmware it is not that interesting really. New product like new sensors and how small can you go with a given sized rectagular block and a FF sensor seems to be the stuff that can be talked about at great length and enthusiasm. Second only to the imminent demise of all things Ricoh.

When you adventure off the track of a Ricoh camera you might find nice technical touches and these cameras can undoubtedly take great images but my experience is that they are basically simple and pretty dumb (by comparison only). So at the end of the day do we vote for a less involved camera that takes great images with the latest technical bits, or are we craftsmen who prefer to wrestle a great image out of a Ricoh?
 
Tom Caldwell wrote:



So others might comment on the focus peaking used my other manufacturers - is it any good? Or is Ricoh truly the only company with a real handle on the technique and all others talk focus peaking in their cameras as if it were merely another method of counting pixels. To have it is good even if it is far from the best implementation.
You may be interested in this thread.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51231469
 
audiobomber wrote:
Tom Caldwell wrote:

So others might comment on the focus peaking used my other manufacturers - is it any good? Or is Ricoh truly the only company with a real handle on the technique and all others talk focus peaking in their cameras as if it were merely another method of counting pixels. To have it is good even if it is far from the best implementation.
You may be interested in this thread.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51231469
 
Tom Caldwell wrote:

Thanks, good lead. Just an example of how uninformed the debate on focus peaking is.
ET2 only posts in the Pentax Forum to denigrate Pentax for real and imagined failings, and to plug Sony. It's great that you set the record straight, as the only user of both Sony and Ricoh focus peaking in the thread.
I think I might have bored them a bit (grin).
LOL! I think "overwhelmed" is a more apt descriptor. ;-)

--
Dan
 
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audiobomber wrote:
Tom Caldwell wrote:

Thanks, good lead. Just an example of how uninformed the debate on focus peaking is.
ET2 only posts in the Pentax Forum to denigrate Pentax for real and imagined failings, and to plug Sony. It's great that you set the record straight, as the only user of both Sony and Ricoh focus peaking in the thread.
I think I might have bored them a bit (grin).
LOL! I think "overwhelmed" is a more apt descriptor. ;-)
 
This is not my advice, but the good advice of a NEX user in relation to the Sony version of focus peaking dating back to November 2011. I post it as being the best unbiased comparison of how the Sony focus peaking works. GXR users know how the Ricoh focus peaking works and can draw their own conclusions.

"Collection of tips for Sony NEX users to get the best out of Sony focus peaking:

There are a few factors here. These are other people's tips that I have combined to get good results. It helps to shoot raw for most of these:

1. Focal length: longer lenses are easier to use with peaking, since lenses with a lot of depth of field will highlight too much. (Closer subjects are also more precise with peaking)

2. Focus wide open. If you have an issue with focus shift with your lense, then focus as wide open as you dare, then set your desired aperture prior to snapping the picture.

3. Set the peaking level to low. If the issue is that you see too much focus peaking, setting it to low will help.

4. Combine with magnification to precise focus. I use peaking to get quickly into the right ballpark. Then I magnify and adjust. This is particularly necessary when the critical plane of focus doesn't have the highest contrast features. Some subjects just won't light up. If you want to focus on a face, the eyelashes are easy to peak, but you might want to focus more on the eye itself, or some other feature that won't trigger the effect.

For the rest of these tips (hats off to the other people on the forum who first mentioned these) you want to be shooting raw

5. Set the creative mode to B&W and peaking color to yellow or red (I think yellow works best). Since it is raw anyway, you still produce a color image, but this makes it easier to find the peaking color, since it is the only color in the viewfinder. This is important when you are combining with techniques to only see the plane in focus.

6. Play with the sharpening and contrast controls. Once again, it only impacts jpegs and the viewfinder image. But peaking uses the jpeg engine. Reducing the sharpness also causes less of the peaking effect.Adjust till you are getting the right amount."


Sony NEX users think the Sony version is the best implementation of course (that is if they realise that there is more than one way to make it happen).
 
This is not my advice, but the good advice of a NEX user in relation to the Sony version of focus peaking dating back to November 2011. I post it as being the best unbiased comparison of how the Sony focus peaking works. GXR users know how the Ricoh focus peaking works and can draw their own conclusions.

"Collection of tips for Sony NEX users to get the best out of Sony focus peaking:

There are a few factors here. These are other people's tips that I have combined to get good results. It helps to shoot raw for most of these:

1. Focal length: longer lenses are easier to use with peaking, since lenses with a lot of depth of field will highlight too much. (Closer subjects are also more precise with peaking)

2. Focus wide open. If you have an issue with focus shift with your lense, then focus as wide open as you dare, then set your desired aperture prior to snapping the picture.

3. Set the peaking level to low. If the issue is that you see too much focus peaking, setting it to low will help.

4. Combine with magnification to precise focus. I use peaking to get quickly into the right ballpark. Then I magnify and adjust. This is particularly necessary when the critical plane of focus doesn't have the highest contrast features. Some subjects just won't light up. If you want to focus on a face, the eyelashes are easy to peak, but you might want to focus more on the eye itself, or some other feature that won't trigger the effect.

For the rest of these tips (hats off to the other people on the forum who first mentioned these) you want to be shooting raw

5. Set the creative mode to B&W and peaking color to yellow or red (I think yellow works best). Since it is raw anyway, you still produce a color image, but this makes it easier to find the peaking color, since it is the only color in the viewfinder. This is important when you are combining with techniques to only see the plane in focus.

6. Play with the sharpening and contrast controls. Once again, it only impacts jpegs and the viewfinder image. But peaking uses the jpeg engine. Reducing the sharpness also causes less of the peaking effect.Adjust till you are getting the right amount."


Sony NEX users think the Sony version is the best implementation of course (that is if they realise that there is more than one way to make it happen).
 
GXRuser wrote:
This is not my advice, but the good advice of a NEX user in relation to the Sony version of focus peaking dating back to November 2011. I post it as being the best unbiased comparison of how the Sony focus peaking works. GXR users know how the Ricoh focus peaking works and can draw their own conclusions.

"Collection of tips for Sony NEX users to get the best out of Sony focus peaking:

There are a few factors here. These are other people's tips that I have combined to get good results. It helps to shoot raw for most of these:

1. Focal length: longer lenses are easier to use with peaking, since lenses with a lot of depth of field will highlight too much. (Closer subjects are also more precise with peaking)

2. Focus wide open. If you have an issue with focus shift with your lense, then focus as wide open as you dare, then set your desired aperture prior to snapping the picture.

3. Set the peaking level to low. If the issue is that you see too much focus peaking, setting it to low will help.

4. Combine with magnification to precise focus. I use peaking to get quickly into the right ballpark. Then I magnify and adjust. This is particularly necessary when the critical plane of focus doesn't have the highest contrast features. Some subjects just won't light up. If you want to focus on a face, the eyelashes are easy to peak, but you might want to focus more on the eye itself, or some other feature that won't trigger the effect.

For the rest of these tips (hats off to the other people on the forum who first mentioned these) you want to be shooting raw

5. Set the creative mode to B&W and peaking color to yellow or red (I think yellow works best). Since it is raw anyway, you still produce a color image, but this makes it easier to find the peaking color, since it is the only color in the viewfinder. This is important when you are combining with techniques to only see the plane in focus.

6. Play with the sharpening and contrast controls. Once again, it only impacts jpegs and the viewfinder image. But peaking uses the jpeg engine. Reducing the sharpness also causes less of the peaking effect.Adjust till you are getting the right amount."


Sony NEX users think the Sony version is the best implementation of course (that is if they realise that there is more than one way to make it happen).
 
If you have to run the LCD in monochrome to use focus peaking effectively, there's something wrong with the implementation.
 

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