The price of buying local and the price of not doing so.

How many of you still buy your gear locally, even though it might be more expensive to do so? Never; local stores don't add value to me, and I have no loyalty to them or the local economy. Supporting local stores - from my perspective - just helps keep the wasteful and inefficient and uninformative sales drones in place longer, and it just helps more lazy politicians collect taxes on this practice (which they will justify by talking about local infrastructure, but never theft).

If I were buying more specialised gear with specialised advice, that might change. But all the stuff I buy is commodity stuff, and even then a lot of the accessories and whatnot are simply not available unless special-ordering locally, for a high price. The salesperson never really helps me. The local store never really helps me. Shopping just gets more complicated (and expensive).

Actually I dread the physical retail experience.

All the info I want is online (and sometimes I spend a lot of time to find it). Then I go reward myself with a lower price from a trusted seller overseas.

I recently purchased an OMD from H&B Digital on 46th St, New York City. If anything goes awray with that camera, I know that H&B will take care of it asap. It is a very reliable outfit and the prices are just as good as the big dealers. There is a lot to be said for doing business with someone you can trust.

My local cameras stores are in Dublin City Centre, which is a 90 minute drive. The 2 better ones don't open on Sundays, so going there usually doesn't suit me, when it does, the trip costs around €25 on petrol/parking, which is what it costs to get an order shipped from the UK or Netherlands.

I only buy from them if the item I want is fairly priced compared to ordering online from abroad. This is sometimes the case with new in-demand items, such as the EM-5. However more often that's not the case. For example, the Oly 9-18 is €699 compared to €499 in the Netherlands. The 12-35 is €1389 compared to €949 in the Netherlands. The VAT rates are similar, so that doesn't account for the difference.

So I often buy online from abroad. Another reason is a greater range of products to choose from. I got sick of "we don't have it, but we can order it in" long ago.

So when it comes to supporting local business - no problem once they're not trying to rip me off. Besides, even if I order from abroad, a local courier gets business they wouldn't have got if I'd bought in the shop.

If my favorite (of two) local shops carries what I want, I buy locally. I shop the used section, and have bought several used lenses - they have a trial period. I have also bought bread and butter new lenses and a camera from them. If they don't have what I want, and it is a special order - no return item, I buy from B and H. They don't carry some brands at all, Sigma and Samyang being examples. Straps, cases, memory cards, lens caps, etc - buy locally.

My preferred local shop supports some camera club events and helps bring in out-of-town speakers.

No one had a better price, everyone was selling it at list, and it was backordered everywhere.

So I ordered at an almost local shop.

While it didn't cost more than mail order, others got their camera sooner... so my 'cost' was getting the camera a week or two later than if I had bought elsewhere. But there was a level of service I wouldn't expect from mail order, and the salesman provided his own E-M5 on the counter to try out. Oh, and camera purchase includes an introduction to the camera class, in this case by an Oly rep, which I took advantage of more as a way to try out all the m.Z lenses and accessories.

Unfortunately, they don't discount much, and I buy used or refurbished when I can, so I won't be buying a lot of gear from them, but I have attended a couple of the classes they offer.

Several months ago, my printer died. I was looking at the Canon 9500 that was selling in town for $850 and at B&H for $800. Then Canon offered a $300 rebate through b&H but not at the local store. Then B&H lowered the price to $600 but Canon still offered the $300 rebate. So I bought the printer for $300 and used the $300 rebate card to eat out for several weeks after Sunday church services. The local dealer never lowered their prices, and after I received my printer I went back to look at the B&H site, and the price there had gone back to $800 and Canon no longer had the rebate.

www.photosbypike.com

There are still several dedicated photo stores in my area (Boston), but they're dropping like flies. The little guys in my direct vicinity are all gone, leaving mostly a few big ones, such as Hunt's. Hunt's is fine for the big stuff, as they sell it at pretty much the same price as B&H - but like any brick-and-mortar store, they overprice accessories at a huge margin. Now, if I had loads of money, I'd happily buy my cameras and lenses there (well, I'd also buy new cameras and lenses as opposed to my current, used strategy) and avoid the shipping time. But I don't have loads of money, and with free shipping from B&H, it's worth it to me to wait a couple of days to get my stuff rather than pay taxes, gas, and the time spent to drive to the store and actually buy the thing.

This debate is going to be very different very soon, though, as our "golden age" of tax-free internet purchases gradually comes to an end. Amazon already has to charge sales tax in several states, and is going to do it in several more (including MA) by the end of this year. It's happening in baby steps - the thing in MA only applies to Amazon and not places like B&H - but it's happening. And as a consumer, it annoys the hell out of me, but really it has been kind of ridiculous, hasn't it?

The sad thing is that from a small-business standpoint, it's too little, too late. The corner photo stores that we'd all love to support are nearly extinct. The Best Buys of the world killed most of them off, and then tax-free internet stores killed most of the rest. These changes in taxation are going to help mostly those Best Buys now. And I sure as hell am not buying a camera from them.

My problem is there isn't one Olympus dealer in my city, closest one is about 250 miles away. The same with any Panasonic. When I bought my g3 and epl2 they were both purchased sight unseen - off the internet. I have to blame Olympus and Panasonic marketing for that though.

After reading all of these replies to the original question which I posted, what started to become clear was that for many of us when local service is really good it can outweigh some of the cost savings found on-line.

It reminds me of a friend who used to have a somewhat high-end motorcycle clothing store. She knew that many of the people who would come into the shop and try on a jacket would then leave the store and purchase that item on-line--given that she had overhead costs such as maintining a store in a reasonable business district, which wholesalers don't have to contend with, her prices would always be a certain amount higher than those on-line. The way she countered that was first to be extremely knowledgable about every product she sold, friendly to her customers (even when they might drive her crazy), and stand behind her products 100%. That never eliminated those who'd try on gear for a fitting and then buy on the internet, but it allowed her to sell enough gear to make a tidy profit via a reasonable mark-up. The store ultimately closed down, but that was only because she came into an inheritance which allowed her to do other things.

The moral of that story is one which our few remaining retailers might do well to learn from: give your customers the high quality service they're wanting, charge them a price which isn't too far removed from what on-line competitors are offerring, and you might still be able to run a profitable camera store in the age of the internet.

al_in_philly said:

al_in_philly wrote:

I live in Philadelphia, a good sized American city. And as with many other American cities, a dozen years ago it had a host of top-notch camera stores--not any longer. Now there are a spattering of generic mall shops with more picture frames than cameras, and just a few dedicated "real" photographic stores left. Fortunately, only a few blocks from my house is a large, fairly well stocked, Calumet Photo store. The prices tend to be higher than what I can get on the internet, and obviously, the diversity of products is also less than what you'll find via the World Wide Web. But I still shop there (as long as they have what I'm looking for), even when a camera or lens might be 50-100 dollars higher if you factor in the sales tax .

I do this for two reasons. First, the money stays local; most of the folks that work there not only live nearby, but many are local photographers who need a "real job" to pay the bills. But second, and maybe more importantly, I don't want to lose this store too. At a local Brick-and-Mortar store, I can hold a camera in my hands before I buy one. I can see the brightness and texture of a new paper stock before trying out a box. And I can just wander about, picking up and holding this item or that, letting my mind wander from the happenstance browsing experience. It's not the same shopping on the Web, nor is it as satisfying.

How many of you still buy your gear locally, even though it might be more expensive to do so? How many of you would, except that the last local camera store has now closed?

--
al
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alsphotography/

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Hi!

The biggest "Pro" camera store here in Central California went out of business over a year ago, and now we're down to one store that carries high end equipment (Nikon, in my case).

I always try to buy local for the obvious reasons.

The major purchases that I've done on line were mostly because my local store didn't carry what I wanted (E.g. Zeiss lenses, specialized filters and accessories).

My most recent larger non-local purchases have (or will have) been a Kiboko camera bag, Zeiss 100/2 and 135/2 lenses, and a portable 750 GB Nexto hard drive.

My local store and I have a good relationship, and they can usually sell me what I want at a price matching or close to B&H's price.

and the local service is great.

I bought a D70 DSLR years ago, and after a few weeks noticed a dust spot on the sensor (didn't know what the heck it was at the time!). I brought it in and the sales guy said, "Just give me all your camera and all the stuff that came with it; here's a new one"

Later, I bought a 200-400VR Nikon zoom, a $5,000 purchase.

There was a minor problem with the lens, but the lens needed to be opened up. I took it to the dealer who shipped it to Nikon for repair, without me having to personally hassle with the paperwork, shipping, etc.

RB

--
http://www.dpreview.com/members/2305099006/challenges
http://www.pbase.com/rbfresno/profile

I try to buy local for other hobbies for just the reasons you've laid out. We've lost a ton of great and useful local places over the years and I understand the good and the bad of it. Atlanta has perhaps a couple of good places--a fraction of what we once had.

I understand the feelings both ways. The only people I take issue with are those that waste retailer's time and then buy online. There's a social compact--they give us something we need and we support them. There'll be people who disagree with the sentiment, who aren't farsighted enough to understand the consequences, and there's no point in trying to convince them.

Of course those who reject the idea of purchasing locally are fine to do so. There's some stuff I don't even bother to look for locally and do the same myself. The local shops I value, though, I make sure to support, and to do what I can to let others know of them. Like the song says, 'you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone....'

Happy shooting!

Jeff

PS: Shopping for a m43 camera at the moment myself. My first after a few years away. No idea where I'll buy yet.

To make a point often made, it makes sense to buy locally if possible so that money stays in the local economy. This means local jobs, not only at that retail outlet but also in suppliers and in the economy in general. Taxes go to provide services in the community, including education, police, and incentives to economic development.

On-line stores are often cheaper, particularly American ones for those who live in other countries. Manufacturers may have higher prices in countries other than the United States even when the the value of currency might seem to indicate otherwise. Yes sales taxes can be high - 13% where I live. While not all local retailers offer the best prices they can, they often provide more convenient service.

It is not an easy decision for hard hit consumers. Is it worth it to me to buy in my local community even if I pay a bit more? Yes in more ways than one. If I am paying too much more, I can't buy locally or buy at all.

F.

al_in_philly said:

al_in_philly wrote:
The moral of that story is one which our few remaining retailers might do well to learn from: give your customers the high quality service they're wanting, charge them a price which isn't too far removed from what on-line competitors are offerring, and you might still be able to run a profitable camera store in the age of the internet.

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That price bit is probably easier said than done.

I'm sure many retailers would be arguing overheads, needless bureaucracy, wholesale prices, high wages, high rent and those incentives and price-breaks that the big box stores get from wholesalers that they don't get 'cause they don't do high volume and so on.

And in a sense, I can't say I blame them. The cards are stacked against them, longer-term. I wouldn't want to be working in bricks-n-mortar retail, especially when Amazon is paying no taxes and so on.

RBFresno said:

RBFresno wrote:
Later, I bought a 200-400VR Nikon zoom, a $5,000 purchase.
There was a minor problem with the lens, but the lens needed to be opened up. I took it to the dealer who shipped it to Nikon for repair, without me having to personally hassle with the paperwork, shipping, etc.

RB

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As long as you are spending like that, they'd be crazy to not give you better service.

Mahmoud Mousef said:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mahmoud Mousef said:

al_in_philly wrote:
The moral of that story is one which our few remaining retailers might do well to learn from: give your customers the high quality service they're wanting, charge them a price which isn't too far removed from what on-line competitors are offerring, and you might still be able to run a profitable camera store in the age of the internet.

Click to expand...

That price bit is probably easier said than done.

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There's a well-known marketing maxim that says you can offer your customers any two of the following three: service, quality, price. You can only emphasize one of those attributes at the cost of reigning in one or two of the others.

Retail stores, since they're selling the same products as Internet vendors, can't really do anything about quality - so it basically comes down to price vs. service. And since Internet vendors can usually offer lower prices due to volume and not needing a retail venue, that pretty much leaves service as retail's only trump card.

A retail store that provides poor service is really, really asking for trouble.

I enjoy going into a camera store on occasion, and Houston has two really nice independent stores. I'll even occasionally buy something there if I actually did my shopping there, or I want it faster than overnight.

But the vast majority of my purchases are online. I prefer to figure out what I want myself, and I usually don't appreciate the "attitude" I run into in camera stores when they figure out I'm not smart enough to shoot Nikon or Canon. (Heck, I even shot Pentax before Olympus, so I must be REALLY dumb.) And it's not just camera stores. Computer stores were the same way back when you could actually find a computer store. I don't really blame the store, either. It's tough to expect someone making $10/hr (maybe) to know in detail all the various items they sell. It's hard enough for them to even know everything they sell, much less know it in detail. I just think the economics are working against the small stores, unless they are highly specialized (more so than just a camera shop).

When it comes down to me spending my money, I'll usually go for the most bang for my buck. I won't go to a store, fondle all the gear, use them for shopping, and then buy online. If I use their time, I'll "pay" for it with a purchase. Usually in a store, I'm just killing time anyway. But online is just a much better buying experience for me. It's been that way for me since before the WWW when I'd shop via catalogs and magazines.

You described my experience exactly. I should've just copied your post instead of creating my own.

Great topic. It's good to get others' perspectives on this, as it's something I've always been torn on.

We have a fantastic camera store here in SLC (Pictureline). They have a great variety of gear, an abundance of friendly, helpful, knowledgable sales staff, give some really great free workshops, contribute to the local photography community by sponsoring events, loaning equipment to the local photo walk, etc.

Their prices are usually in line withe the reasonable low online prices (Amazon, B&H, Adorama), so the sales tax is the only difference. I did buy a few Canon L lenses from them and was very happy with the purchase, even after paying the extra for sales tax.

That all came to a crashing halt when I learned about their return policy. There are no refunds, only exchanges for in-store items/credit. I'm really glad I discovered this on a $70 strap, rather than a $1000 body or lens. Let's face it, sometimes there's only one thing on our wish list in that price range that we're seriously considering at the time. Having $1000 floating around with nothing to show for it would pretty much suck.

I politely voiced my opinion on their Facebook page. The explanation I got was the price of processing credit card returns on their merchant account.

I over-research everything, so I very rarely return anything, but I've yet to have any of the major online retailers (mentioned above) refuse a return. In fact, they pay my return shipping on top of what they pay in merchant fees. It's a customer service decision those companies made to gain loyalty and I support them for it.

I still got to Pictureline for little things like filters and bags, but I just can't afford the risk of buying a high-ticket item and not being able to return it within a reasonable time frame. So they helped me make the decision to go with the easy returns, fast/free shipping and sales tax savings of online retailers like Amazon. In fact, if the delivered price and wait time were equal, I'd still opt for Amazon, B&H or Adorama for the return policy.

Mahmoud Mousef said:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mahmoud Mousef said:

RBFresno wrote:
Later, I bought a 200-400VR Nikon zoom, a $5,000 purchase.
There was a minor problem with the lens, but the lens needed to be opened up. I took it to the dealer who shipped it to Nikon for repair, without me having to personally hassle with the paperwork, shipping, etc.

RB

Click to expand...

As long as you are spending like that, they'd be crazy to not give you better service.

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I wish Nikon USA felt the same way

Mahmoud Mousef said:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

How many of you still buy your gear locally, even though it might be more expensive to do so? Never; local stores don't add value to me, and I have no loyalty to them or the local economy. Supporting local stores - from my perspective - just helps keep the wasteful and inefficient and uninformative sales drones in place longer, and it just helps more lazy politicians collect taxes on this practice (which they will justify by talking about local infrastructure, but never theft).

If I were buying more specialised gear with specialised advice, that might change. But all the stuff I buy is commodity stuff, and even then a lot of the accessories and whatnot are simply not available unless special-ordering locally, for a high price. The salesperson never really helps me. The local store never really helps me. Shopping just gets more complicated (and expensive).

Actually I dread the physical retail experience.

All the info I want is online (and sometimes I spend a lot of time to find it). Then I go reward myself with a lower price from a trusted seller overseas.

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I have found that online research is only half the equation. Real world interaction and handling of the product is key for me. I make a living with my photography and I cannot waste time buying on the recommendations of online postings by people who are hobbyists, fanboys or vendor reps. Moreover, the camera stores I deal with do have informed sales staff for the most part and if they aren't fully up to speed I do not engage in the sport of sneering at them that seems to be so popular with many online.

I value the resource that my local shop offers to the community both in service and support and in how they educate their clients about photography. I also appreciate the fact that if I need a bit or bob on the spur of the moment I can stop in and get it. My job would be harder if they weren't here.