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Why is Mirrorless Failing in the USA?

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rattymouse

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According to Thom Hogan, mirrorless camera sales are down hard in the USA (-31%). But he does not say why. Does anyone have some guesses as to why mirrorless is not gaining traction in the US despite continuous improvements?
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

According to Thom Hogan, mirrorless camera sales are down hard in the USA (-31%). But he does not say why. Does anyone have some guesses as to why mirrorless is not gaining traction in the US despite continuous improvements?
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They're not being stocked or promoted at the more consumer-accessible stores.

I tend to think that any interest--and therefore, sales--of the more expensive mirrorless systems is being generated by enthusiast magazines and word of mouth, not by TV or store flyers/advertisements...which I think is still pretty good, albeit slow.


Nikon and Canon pretty much own the camera stock space at the stores. If even they don't put much incentive to sell their own mirrorless systems, then what's anyone else to do?
 
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Thanks. I didnt realize that mirrorless cameras were not getting shelf space. Same as over here in Shanghai. 90% of the stores show the SLR's and very very few have any mirrorless cameras. Sales are just not catching on.
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

According to Thom Hogan, mirrorless camera sales are down hard in the USA (-31%). But he does not say why. Does anyone have some guesses as to why mirrorless is not gaining traction in the US despite continuous improvements?
Click to expand...
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

According to Thom Hogan, mirrorless camera sales are down hard in the USA (-31%). But he does not say why. Does anyone have some guesses as to why mirrorless is not gaining traction in the US despite continuous improvements?
Click to expand...


I'd be interested to know if sales are down for other types of cameras.
 
I've been to a few local camera shows at a local chain's home store. Everything available in the USA is there from pocketable poimnt and shoots to the premium fixed lens cameras, ILC's, consumer DSLRs and Pro DSLRs. If you stand around and listen you get some clues. Everybody wants to try the latest ILC's; but as soon as a larger lens is mounted, the atendees all say pretty much the same thing. "by the time you add a decent lens, the value of the small body is lost" Adding a Sony G series 70-210 f/2.8 to a NEX7 with the adapter got a lot of laughs.

The truth of the situation is that the lenses are too big for the bodies. All the media hype has been about how small the body is. That might work for a fixed lens compact; but as soon as you add a zoom lens with some reach, the hype is seen to be just that. The size, balance with larger lenses, and quality of the smaller DSLRs is also a factor.

A further factor is just how good the better fixed lens compacts have gotten. And a lot of those close up to a jacket pocketable size with better image quality than most buyers really need. I'm speaking here about cameras like the G15, XZ2, ZX7, RX100, and so forth.

Something that the manufacturers need to come to grips with is that people really don't want to change lenses and carry a bag with several lenses. Development of lenses like the 18-200, 18-250, and 18-270 is evidence of this. On my 60D, my main lens was the 18-135 IS. On the D90 it was the Nikkor 18-200VR. Both set ups weighed around 1350 grams or 48 oz., and there was also a bag with accessories and lenses. Both cameras got replaced by a G15 and an FZ200.

I know it's egocentric; but I really do think that my views are typical of the majority of US buyers out there.

I also think the argument that ILC's are not selling because they are not stocked is a false argument. Rather, I think they are not displayed; because they don't sell.
--
Jerry
 
BigBen08 said:
BigBen08 wrote:
BigBen08 said:
rattymouse wrote:

According to Thom Hogan, mirrorless camera sales are down hard in the USA (-31%). But he does not say why. Does anyone have some guesses as to why mirrorless is not gaining traction in the US despite continuous improvements?
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to know if sales are down for other types of cameras.
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In the same report he stated that SLR sales are holding steady, while compacts are in free fall. Smart phone sales through the roof.
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

According to Thom Hogan, mirrorless camera sales are down hard in the USA (-31%).
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Actually, he doesn't say that. He says that January shipments are down 31% over 2012. That doesn't necessarily translate to sales. For example, if 100,000 were shipped in 12/2011 and another 100,000 in 12012 and all sold, and then 200,000 were shipped in 12/2012 and 69,000 in 1/2013 and all sold, January shipments would be down 31% but total sales would be up 34%. You really can't read a lot into one month's shipment figures.

Anecdotally, here in New York I can barely walk down a street in midtown without seeing a Sony NEX, though I see only a few Pens and fewer Panasonic G-series.
Member said:
But he does not say why. Does anyone have some guesses as to why mirrorless is not gaining traction in the US despite continuous improvements?
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In general, it wouldn't surprise me if sales for everything were down in the US. The economy is a lot worse than you'd think from looking at the stock market, and I think a lot of people bought DSLRs around 2007-2009 and are still using them.

Also, Panasonic's camera marketing in the US is just terrible, and while Olympus has spent some advertising money, they aren't much in the big-box stores.
 
GeraldW said:
GeraldW wrote:

I've been to a few local camera shows at a local chain's home store. Everything available in the USA is there from pocketable poimnt and shoots to the premium fixed lens cameras, ILC's, consumer DSLRs and Pro DSLRs. If you stand around and listen you get some clues. Everybody wants to try the latest ILC's; but as soon as a larger lens is mounted, the atendees all say pretty much the same thing. "by the time you add a decent lens, the value of the small body is lost" Adding a Sony G series 70-210 f/2.8 to a NEX7 with the adapter got a lot of laughs.

:

I know it's egocentric; but I really do think that my views are typical of the majority of US buyers out there.
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I'm afraid that would be the crowd you alluded to in the first paragraph, that believes that there is no life or purpose of a camera besides something like 70-200/2.8. Someone like me, would be smiling back.
 
Ed Gaillard said:
Ed Gaillard wrote:

Anecdotally, here in New York I can barely walk down a street in midtown without seeing a Sony NEX, though I see only a few Pens and fewer Panasonic G-series.
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Midtown Manhattan is not exactly a representative sample LOL! In certain areas like Times Square you're more likely to hear a foreign language than good 'ol American.

And at the end of the day, its awfully hard to beat the availability and value proposition of an entry level DSLR with a kit zoom.
 
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I think GeraldW is pretty much right on target. Its the very complexity of having to carry and change lenses that turns off the average camera buyer. The enthusiast, who sees the flexibility of have various lens options is more than likely to go a DSLR. For that he or she gets better AF, better balance with large lenses , as well as a mature system with much greater variety in specifications and accessories.
 
Rmark said:
Rmark wrote:

I think GeraldW is pretty much right on target. Its the very complexity of having to carry and change lenses that turns off the average camera buyer. The enthusiast, who sees the flexibility of have various lens options is more than likely to go a DSLR. For that he or she gets better AF, better balance with large lenses , as well as a mature system with much greater variety in specifications and accessories.
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The idea of average buyer would explain why DSLRs continue to be more popular. And their inability to appreciate the upsides to mirror-less design. Among these are also people who think super zoom P&S make a lot more sense, while someone like me would say... why not try that fantastic little legacy lens, focus manually and enjoy photography if you want to? Switch to a pancake when you go out for a walk or a family event? Put that big 70-200/2.8 and go shoot basketball? A mirror-less camera like NEX can do it. Try doing what it can do, with a DSLR.

It is why I'll be the one smiling at those laughing.
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

According to Thom Hogan, mirrorless camera sales are down hard in the USA (-31%). But he does not say why. Does anyone have some guesses as to why mirrorless is not gaining traction in the US despite continuous improvements?

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As I said in that other thread I think the rapid growth of mirrorless is less as many users seem to think a case of mostly DSLR users abadoning ship in droves(some are of course) and more a new market being discovered. That is former compact/phone users wanting the image quality of a DSLR(at least an ASPC one) in a smaller package, most of these users have I'd guess never used either an OVF or a fast tracking AF system and may well not need either.

I think the recent market trend reflects that, if mirrorlesses growth was mainly based on an inevitable shift from DSLR's then surely we'd seen continued fast growth? rapid growth and then slowdown seems to me to be the sign of a new market reaching saturation.

I'd add aswell then I think the typical mirrorless user is probabley less prone to repeated upgrades than the average DSLR user. The largest part of the mirrorless market is IMHO the affore mentioned former compact/phone users and these people are likely not greatly intersted in increased in areas like AF speed. Whats more any generational change in IQ will be pretty small compaired to the massive upgrade they expereinced when moving from a compact/phone.
 
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that every Walmart and Target has Nikon 3100/5100 and Canon T3i. If you go anywhere near the DSLRs a friendly sales person comes up and ask if you would like some help.

Target also has the Nikon 1 system cameras by the way. Next time I am in there I will try to remember to ask the staff if they sell many.
 
EinsteinsGhost said:
EinsteinsGhost wrote:
EinsteinsGhost said:
Rmark wrote:

I think GeraldW is pretty much right on target. Its the very complexity of having to carry and change lenses that turns off the average camera buyer. The enthusiast, who sees the flexibility of have various lens options is more than likely to go a DSLR. For that he or she gets better AF, better balance with large lenses , as well as a mature system with much greater variety in specifications and accessories.
Click to expand...
The idea of average buyer would explain why DSLRs continue to be more popular. And their inability to appreciate the upsides to mirror-less design. Among these are also people who think super zoom P&S make a lot more sense, while someone like me would say... why not try that fantastic little legacy lens, focus manually and enjoy photography if you want to? Switch to a pancake when you go out for a walk or a family event? Put that big 70-200/2.8 and go shoot basketball? A mirror-less camera like NEX can do it. Try doing what it can do, with a DSLR.

It is why I'll be the one smiling at those laughing.
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But I can do all of that with my K-30 DSLR.
 
Good observation. I think for a lot of average consumers the distinction is - does it fit into a pocket or not. If it doesn't, the distinction between a mirrorless camera, with anything other than a pancake lens, and a DSLR is lost. Certainly among all my acquaintances the distinction is between the camera you always have with you and the one you take when you want to do "more", whatever that might be.
 
OpticsEngineer said:
OpticsEngineer wrote:

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that every Walmart and Target has Nikon 3100/5100 and Canon T3i. If you go anywhere near the DSLRs a friendly sales person comes up and ask if you would like some help.

Target also has the Nikon 1 system cameras by the way. Next time I am in there I will try to remember to ask the staff if they sell many.
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Yes, I suspect on the whole, it is a fairly conservative market dominated by Canikon, as that's what people know. Lots of DSLRs have been sold to people who never change the grotty kit lens. Change will be slow, and will take a lot of marketing. It may be driven by word of mouth too.


Bruce
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:
Smart phone sales through the roof.
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Except that apple warned that iphone sales will be rather flat as their market is saturated and so many people already have an iphone.
 
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