IS: How Many Stops?

I've seen around the forums that certain cameras have different qualities of stabilization. So, let's take the standard 20mm f1.7 that everyone has and mount it on a few cameras.

So, the OMD apparently has the best IS ever. How many stops will that get me? What about one of the other PEN cameras?

Also, and this is pretty important, I hear that the IS on the newer PM2 isn't as good? So, only 1-stop?

I'm confused.

tjdean01 said:

tjdean01 wrote:

I've seen around the forums that certain cameras have different qualities of stabilization. So, let's take the standard 20mm f1.7 that everyone has and mount it on a few cameras.

So, the OMD apparently has the best IS ever. How many stops will that get me? What about one of the other PEN cameras?

Also, and this is pretty important, I hear that the IS on the newer PM2 isn't as good? So, only 1-stop?

I'm confused.

Click to expand...

Speaking for the E-PL1 where I did a lot of testing early on with a variety of lenses and focal lengths, it was very clear to me that I could predictably get a slow shutter speed improvement of about 10x the time period, ie in round numbers, 1/300 at 150mm without IBIS would become 1/30 sec with IBIS, ditto with say 15mm 1/30 sec no IBIS would become 1/3 sec with IBIS. The Panasonic 14-45mm switched OIS also gave about the same 10x improvement. That's about 3 stops.

Not tested by me as yet but the E-PL5 seems to be much the same at 3 stops. E-M5 users seem to report even better results that may actually approach the "up to 5 stops" that Oly marketing tells us, plus of course the E-M5 IBIS works with video.


The problem is that everyone handles cameras differently so each person needs to do their own testing with and without stabilisation at a variety of focal lengths to see what results they can achieve.

Intermingled with stabilisation appears to be shutter shock issues where around 1/100 sec the shutter shock may cause problems, some use anti-shock delay of 1/8 sec to help reduce that. Also tangled in there is the tiny blur I found that IBIS (on the E-PL1 at least) added to every image at safe fast shutter speeds.

To that end I only use stabilisation when it is proved to be needed, I leave it off most of the time for more reliable results.


Back to the 20mm, I would expect to use 1/40 sec as the slowest speed with no IBIS and 1/4 sec with IBIS on the Pens, and maybe something slower (1/2 sec?) on the E-M5 but usually subject movement makes a mockery of playing with these slower shutter speeds. Use high ISO and faster shutter speeds and get better results.

Regards...... Guy

tjdean01 said:

tjdean01 wrote:

I've seen around the forums that certain cameras have different qualities of stabilization. So, let's take the standard 20mm f1.7 that everyone has and mount it on a few cameras.

So, the OMD apparently has the best IS ever. How many stops will that get me? What about one of the other PEN cameras?

Also, and this is pretty important, I hear that the IS on the newer PM2 isn't as good? So, only 1-stop?

I'm confused.

Click to expand...

I had an E-PL5 for a couple of days. i didn't test it with the 20mm f/1.7, but with the Panasonic 14-42x the IBIS gave me about the same degree of image stabilization as the Panasonic OIS: about two stops. I understand that the. E-PM2 has the same IBIS system. I ended up returning the E-PL5 (nice camera, but for a little more money the E-M5 offers a lot more) and got an E-M5. The EM5 gives me a solid four stops.

Bob

Guy Parsons said:

Guy Parsons wrote:

The problem is that everyone handles cameras differently so each person needs to do their own testing with and without stabilisation at a variety of focal lengths to see what results they can achieve.

Click to expand...

Well said Guy. Everyone triggers their cameras different, so the answer is 0 to 5 stops depending on technique and local conditions, with the observation that heavier cameras and shorter focal lengths are easier to stabilize.

Guy Parsons said:

Guy Parsons wrote:
Not tested by me as yet but the E-PL5 seems to be much the same at 3 stops. E-M5 users seem to report even better results that may actually approach the "up to 5 stops" that Oly marketing tells us, plus of course the E-M5 IBIS works with video.

The problem is that everyone handles cameras differently so each person needs to do their own testing with and without stabilisation at a variety of focal lengths to see what results they can achieve.

Click to expand...

Yes Guy, that's a sensible view. I think we should take with a pinch of salt the claims of manufacturers and reviewers, and wary of individual owners' guestimates on how many stops benefit they get from their IS. Just too many variables in handling and testing, and degree of objectivity.

For example, does the E-M5 really provide a 5 stop benefit? Although it's likely that the IBIS is one of the the very best stabilization systems, here is what DPReview said in their review of the camera ...

" While claims of 5-stop improvement are wildly over-optimistic from our experience, it is certainly effective in-use."

-- Richard --

Guy Parsons said:

Guy Parsons wrote:

Not tested by me as yet but the E-PL5 seems to be much the same at 3 stops. E-M5 users seem to report even better results that may actually approach the "up to 5 stops" that Oly marketing tells us, plus of course the E-M5 IBIS works with video.

Click to expand...

Doubletake: You mean the E-PL5 does NOT do IBIS with video?!

boxerman said:

boxerman wrote:

boxerman said:

Guy Parsons wrote:

Not tested by me as yet but the E-PL5 seems to be much the same at 3 stops. E-M5 users seem to report even better results that may actually approach the "up to 5 stops" that Oly marketing tells us, plus of course the E-M5 IBIS works with video.

Click to expand...

Doubletake: You mean the E-PL5 does NOT do IBIS with video?!

Click to expand...

True, the IBIS is disabled for video in the Pens and a pixel shifting method substituted - not so good. In fact it's better to take a wobbly video framed a bit sloppily and then use a decent video editor to do the same pixel shift stabilisation, but with selectable parameters.

Or, do as I do and use the Panasonic 14-45mm lens and turn on its OIS. Plus of course now the E-PL5 allows use of the unswitched OIS so even my unswitched OIS Panasonic 45-150mm can stabilise the video.

At this time only the E-M5 has proper IBIS functioning during video. Maybe later they will learn how to scrunch that better IBIS into a Pen body, they have already done so with a smaller sensor camera so there's hope for the E-P5 or later.


Regards..... Guy

Guy Parsons said:

Guy Parsons wrote:

Guy Parsons said:

boxerman wrote:

Doubletake: You mean the E-PL5 does NOT do IBIS with video?!

Click to expand...

True, the IBIS is disabled for video in the Pens and a pixel shifting method substituted - not so good. In fact it's better to take a wobbly video framed a bit sloppily and then use a decent video editor to do the same pixel shift stabilisation, but with selectable parameters.

Click to expand...

Oh, I see. They advertise "image stabilization" during video, but that is NOT the sensor shift (presumably from accelerometers) but only software pixel shift on the image. If they do sensor shift (that's what they advertise), though, it seems the hardware is already stuffed in the camera. All the more frustrating.

Sigh. My wife is interested in doing video, but not too expensively. We were planning something like an E-PL5 so that we could share my O-MD lenses. Everyone says Panny has better video (I'm sure it's true), but none of my lenses have OIS.

boxerman said:

boxerman wrote:

boxerman said:

Guy Parsons wrote:

boxerman said:

boxerman wrote:

Doubletake: You mean the E-PL5 does NOT do IBIS with video?!

Click to expand...

True, the IBIS is disabled for video in the Pens and a pixel shifting method substituted - not so good. In fact it's better to take a wobbly video framed a bit sloppily and then use a decent video editor to do the same pixel shift stabilisation, but with selectable parameters.

Click to expand...

Oh, I see. They advertise "image stabilization" during video, but that is NOT the sensor shift (presumably from accelerometers) but only software pixel shift on the image. If they do sensor shift (that's what they advertise), though, it seems the hardware is already stuffed in the camera. All the more frustrating.

Click to expand...

The problem is that the Pen IBIS is so darn noisy, take a 1 or 2 second exposure with IBIS on and wobble the camera and listen to the scrunching noise, it's rather loud. Plus of course prolonged use of the Pen IBIS may lead to overheating so two reasons why it is not used for video.

boxerman said:

Sigh. My wife is interested in doing video, but not too expensively. We were planning something like an E-PL5 so that we could share my O-MD lenses. Everyone says Panny has better video (I'm sure it's true), but none of my lenses have OIS.

Click to expand...

Buy the E-PL5 body and the Panasonic 14-45mm, 'tis best of the kit lenses, and the Pen video stabilisation issues are solved using its switched OIS.

But if really interested in video, go get a real video camera which does things much better.


Regards...... Guy

tjdean01 said:

tjdean01 wrote:

I've seen around the forums that certain cameras have different qualities of stabilization. So, let's take the standard 20mm f1.7 that everyone has and mount it on a few cameras.

So, the OMD apparently has the best IS ever. How many stops will that get me? What about one of the other PEN cameras?

Also, and this is pretty important, I hear that the IS on the newer PM2 isn't as good? So, only 1-stop?

I'm confused.

Click to expand...

Don't be confused. Think Gitzo and your mind will clear.

My take on IS/IBIS/OIS/VR etc. is clearly in the minority:

IS does not provide razor sharp photos. All it does is make blurry shots not so blurry. The IS on my E-PL5 is probably rusted solid; I've never turned it on in the months I've had the camera. Almost magically, I've gotten loads of critically sharp photos...Gitzo assisted.

Of course my post is tongue-in-cheek, but my message is absolutely serious.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA

Guy Parsons said:

Guy Parsons wrote:

Guy Parsons said:

boxerman wrote:

Click to expand...

Guy Parsons said:

Sigh. My wife is interested in doing video, but not too expensively. We were planning something like an E-PL5 so that we could share my O-MD lenses. Everyone says Panny has better video (I'm sure it's true), but none of my lenses have OIS.

Click to expand...

Buy the E-PL5 body and the Panasonic 14-45mm, 'tis best of the kit lenses, and the Pen video stabilisation issues are solved using its switched OIS.

But if really interested in video, go get a real video camera which does things much better.

Click to expand...

This was the plan before I thought of lens-sharing with another M43. The rub may be that my wife does not really want to give up snapshooting, too. The 14-45 plan is now also live--good idea--but more expensive and less flexible (given that I have a bunch of Oly lenses).

TNX.

--

The BoxerMan

So, okay, thanks for the responses. I can see the OMD is definitely better. Is it true I should keep the IBIS OFF except when I'm using slow shutter speeds because it could actually CAUSE blur? Also, I'm considering the PM2 and heard that there's an issue with the IS. Any truth to that?

tjdean01 said:

tjdean01 wrote:

So, okay, thanks for the responses. I can see the OMD is definitely better. Is it true I should keep the IBIS OFF except when I'm using slow shutter speeds because it could actually CAUSE blur? Also, I'm considering the PM2 and heard that there's an issue with the IS. Any truth to that?

Click to expand...

The summary seems to be that the E-M5 IBIS is very good and seems OK to leave it on all the time if so inclined.

The Pen IBIS is not so clever and there seems to be the risk of slight (very slight) blur added if IBIS is on at safe shutter speeds.


In all cases there seems to be possible shutter shock blur at around 1/100 sec due to focal plane shutter initial closure before exposure. Some anti-shock delay may help with that.


The lighter bodies such as the E-PM2 do seem to suffer more from shutter shock.

In my case (E-PL1, PL5, P3) I leave IBIS off unless it is really needed, seems to work for me.

Regards...... Guy

Guy Parsons said:

The lighter bodies such as the E-PM2 do seem to suffer more from shutter shock.

Click to expand...

How is this prevented?

tjdean01 said:

tjdean01 wrote:

tjdean01 said:

The lighter bodies such as the E-PM2 do seem to suffer more from shutter shock.

Click to expand...

How is this prevented?

Click to expand...

Like I said above, some say that employing some anti-shock delay helps, if shutter shock seems to be a problem at around 1/100 sec then try adding 1/8 second anti-shock delay.

Usually this sort of blur mostly troubles the pixel peeping crowd, for most screen display or small prints say 8x10 and smaller, then there may not be a problem.

Only testing for problems by the individual concerned will reveal if there is a problem with the way they use the camera. If shutter shock always happens then avoid the 1/60 to 1/160 shutter speed range. Use a higher ISO is one way.

Regards...... Guy