I am interested in how to make platinum-print-looking BW images with my digital darkroom.

Hi Bill. As someone who used to include Platinum print making quite a few moons ago in my conventional darkroom, there really should be no difference in the sort of information required to produce either an actual Platinum print or a silver-gelatin print or an inkjet print. With conventional (to further clarify) the negative required was the same for any subsequent printing process within those ranges mentioned.

I can produce inkjet prints that will hang alongside any conventional process so it is more a case of actually knowing what end result you want to achieve, rather than trying to find a route via histograms or suchlike, starting with of course the right in-camera exposure technique.

However, to try and help in some way, I print using inkjetfly.com pigment inks and print using only the Black ink (see signature for article link) on to acid-free watercolour papers - mostly Canson Montval and Geler-Mate. Perhaps it might also be rather revealing that when I made Platinum prints - what paper did I then use - answer is Canson Montval - so things have a habit of going the full rounds. I have no doubt that my current choice - same as in the past - has a lot to do with being able to virtually replicate via inkjet technology.

Of course, no inkjet, silver-gelatin or Platinum or anything else can totally match each other - that's the beauty (NOT disadvantage!) of the different processes. If you really seek the actual full Platinum end result instead of (as I claim - 97% match) then you will have to resort to making real Platinum prints (and the best of luck - cost of inks will fade into the far distance by comparison). However, as I mentioned, my inkjets happily hang in frames alongside conventional prints, whatever the process - and to just add a little more - Duo-Tone Mode enables prints to have specific qualities as and when desired, such as Selenium Toning, Sepia and so forth for appearances.

I agree that the issue of histogram or contrast is not the actual driver. I don't know what software or printer you are using. That would be critical. First, I would use something like the "dedicated" plugins for B&W conversion. You can do the same thing in Photoshop without them, but they make doing it a ton easier. nik Silver Efex Pro, or Topaz B&W are good. There are some others. I currently use Topaz, and it is on sale right now for a very low price. Next, you need a printer that can print B&W with no color metamerism. That means a printer such as the Epson 3000 or 3880 that use at least three shades of Black Ink. (you actually cannot print a "platinum" style print without using some color to tint the image). In the plugin, you can choose the "platinum" preset to get a quick starting point. You can adjust contrast and many other things to your taste. It helps to use a calibrated monitor, on-screen proofing, and a proper printer/paper profile. If you do this, you will be surprised how easy this is to achieve, how easy it is to adjust the image, and how nice the print comes out. The previous poster had some really good advice relative to paper selection as well. You have to decide whether you want higher contrast and sharpness (a harder surface) or more of a low contrast dreamy look (softer surface).

I am using LR 4 and newest PS 6. I am interested currently not so much in the printing but the "look." (I will check preset in them. Good suggestion.) What distinguishes platiinum prints from other BW prints. I might not even print the "look," but show it in digital slideshows. BIll P.

Go download Topaz B&W plugin. It is on sale right now for about 39!% off. It has tons of presets and film style adjustments built in. Way easier than doing guess work in Photoshop.

The built-in B&W presets, filters, and effects in LR4 are excellent, although I do all my B&W work through Nik Silver Efex Pro.

Sal

Alpha Doug said:

Alpha Doug wrote:

Go download Topaz B&W plugin. It is on sale right now for about 39!% off. It has tons of presets and film style adjustments built in. Way easier than doing guess work in Photoshop.

--
Only my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary! ;-} www.dougwigton.com/

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+1

Here are several images with platinum toning effect from Topaz B/W, submitted for an upcoming juried competition of California mission images in Carmel. The first image repeated at the end for some reason - can't figure how to remove images once posted.

Pete

Bill, are you familiar with the underlyiing principals-details of platinum printing. What it is all about chemically for example.

Robert

Robert, if you mean in the chemical darkroom? The answer is sort of, but I'm not sure that is the point. I'm interested in how a frequency distiribution, in say LR, for platinum will differ from silver halide? For example when one uses different LR BW Presets you see the histogram changes. LR does not have a Platinum BW setting, for example. Maybe Topaz does and that is what I should investigate. It also may be that even if I understood what the histogram would look like, I would still have to worry as much about the printing process; e.g. papers, inks, soft proofing, etc.

Thanks everyone for your responses you are being quite helpful. Much appreciated. Bill P.

Bill Prosser said:

Bill Prosser wrote:

Robert, if you mean in the chemical darkroom? The answer is sort of, but I'm not sure that is the point. I'm interested in how a frequency distiribution, in say LR, for platinum will differ from silver halide? For example when one uses different LR BW Presets you see the histogram changes. LR does not have a Platinum BW setting, for example. Maybe Topaz does and that is what I should investigate. It also may be that even if I understood what the histogram would look like, I would still have to worry as much about the printing process; e.g. papers, inks, soft proofing, etc.

Thanks everyone for your responses you are being quite helpful. Much appreciated. Bill P.

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Perhaps I could have asked the question differently. Are you just interensted academically in making platinum-looking prints because you heard of them, or are platinum prints something you know and admire.

Remember that the platinum chemistry is exceptionally slow. In the wet darkroom it requires extremely long exposure times during printing to obtain an image. I suspect this contributes somwhat to the appearance of the true platinum print. I could be mistaken, but I wonder if the long exposures allow some characteristic degradation of usual sharpness just due to normal environmental vibrations. Also there is the warm tonal range characteristic of the genre and perhaps most important, the expanded tonal range particularly in the mid-grays. My point is that it is not all about historgrams, but rather there are many subtle characteristics which need to be addressed to mimic wet chemistry platinum by ink jet printing. There is also the totally matte appearance of platinum prints which suggests that paper selection is also very important to the modern approach to creating the platinum look.

Need I say that attempting to really create the look on monitor-viewed images is likely to be hopeless. What makes platinum prints different from all their brethren really is the on-paper appearance qualities.

I think the PS plug-ins would be a good place to start, but this could turn into a quest-hobby much like wet platinum printing often is/was for its practitioners. Small developments that little-by-little allow you to approach your goal.

Robert

The difference between a platinum print and silver-gelatin print has nothing to do with the histogram.

Furthermore, if you were to scan an example of both types of prints you would loose the largest difference between them. That difference is that with a platinum print the photosensitive materials (and thus the resulting image) lie within the fibers of the paper. With a "normal" black and white image the photosensitive materials lie in a gelatin layer which sits atop the paper. This leads to a very different look for the two types of images. Thus trying to simulate a platinum print on the screen is somewhat silly.

That said, there is also a subtle difference in tint between the two processes. It is hard to describe, but the grays in a platinum print are subtly cooler (more "silvery", maybe) than the grays in a silver gelatin print.

Maybe this is what you were suggesting? I have never tried to simulate this but I would image that you might come close with some sort of duotone method. Or, as others have said, just use a plug-in.

But, the real question in my mind (and this holds for digital simulations of all alternative process techniques) is "Why bother?". A large part of the allure of a silver gelatin print or an alt process print is the actual artifact... the combination of pigment and paper and their interaction. This is not something that is amenable to simulation; even when printed.

Can you tell that I am somewhat of a purist when it comes to alt process?! ;-)

I still dabble in alt process, mainly cyanotype these days. Large negatives made digitally are so much easier that the "old days" of the wet darkroom!

Regards,

--- Frank (www.gorga.org/blog)

rpenmanparker said:

rpenmanparker wrote:

rpenmanparker said:

Bill Prosser wrote:

Robert, if you mean in the chemical darkroom? The answer is sort of, but I'm not sure that is the point. I'm interested in how a frequency distiribution, in say LR, for platinum will differ from silver halide? For example when one uses different LR BW Presets you see the histogram changes. LR does not have a Platinum BW setting, for example. Maybe Topaz does and that is what I should investigate. It also may be that even if I understood what the histogram would look like, I would still have to worry as much about the printing process; e.g. papers, inks, soft proofing, etc.

Thanks everyone for your responses you are being quite helpful. Much appreciated. Bill P.

Click to expand...

Perhaps I could have asked the question differently. Are you just interensted academically in making platinum-looking prints because you heard of them, or are platinum prints something you know and admire.

Remember that the platinum chemistry is exceptionally slow. In the wet darkroom it requires extremely long exposure times during printing to obtain an image. I suspect this contributes somwhat to the appearance of the true platinum print. I could be mistaken, but I wonder if the long exposures allow some characteristic degradation of usual sharpness just due to normal environmental vibrations.

Click to expand...

You are correct in that the chemistry is slow... this is a characteristic of all iron-based processes as is the fact that they are sensitive to UV light only. I don't think that the slowness per se has much to do with the "look". Making platinum prints is a contact printing process, the negative and the paper are tightly sandwiched together to make the print. Not much chance of vibration affecting things unlike when using an enlarger.

rpenmanparker said:

Also there is the warm tonal range characteristic of the genre and perhaps most important, the expanded tonal range particularly in the mid-grays. My point is that it is not all about historgrams, but rather there are many subtle characteristics which need to be addressed to mimic wet chemistry platinum by ink jet printing. There is also the totally matte appearance of platinum prints which suggests that paper selection is also very important to the modern approach to creating the platinum look.

Need I say that attempting to really create the look on monitor-viewed images is likely to be hopeless. What makes platinum prints different from all their brethren really is the on-paper appearance qualities.

I think the PS plug-ins would be a good place to start, but this could turn into a quest-hobby much like wet platinum printing often is/was for its practitioners. Small developments that little-by-little allow you to approach your goal.

Robert

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I see that great minds think alike but yours seems to work a bit faster!!! ;-) My post making similar points was a few minutes behind yours.

Regards,

--- Frank (www.gorga.org/blog)

FRGorga said:

FRGorga wrote:

I see that great minds think alike but yours seems to work a bit faster!!! ;-) My post making similar points was a few minutes behind yours.

Regards,

--- Frank (www.gorga.org/blog)

Click to expand...

It is not always about speed, but sometimes timing!

Forgive my oversight regarding the contact printing aspect. Yes, you are of course right, no enlarger.

Robert

Hi Pete,

Totally out of topic, I would like to congratulate you not only for your technique and artistry but also for the idea of photographing those beautiful subjects. May God grant us the Tridentine Traditional Latin Mass be celebrated again in these wonderful chapels and churches.

Salve Maria!