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shame on you Nikon

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Reilly Diefenbach said:
Reilly Diefenbach wrote:
Reilly Diefenbach said:
You want...things to be more like other things. We get that. Not everyone agrees, and that is OK also. BTW, that used to be called the "a certain members Syndrome"...don't get too wrapped up as it leads to for fewer pictures actually taken. The "crippled camera" posts can really eat into ones shooting time. He would make long "crippled features" and "add in firmware" posts in literally hundreds and hundreds of posts in any thread he could find. Long strings just like this one. It really took a huge toll on his shooting and led to no new features added in firmware. Better to ask if a UV filter is needed :)
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Lol, Mako. Sure cost me a few shooting hours :^)

Draacor, use the dial once in +-2 bracket mode, three clicks down (6 exp total) for extreme conditions, you don't need the way overexposed shots.
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Thanks Reilly, thats a good idea. I also looked up a method some use where they set the U1 option to +-2EV and then the U2 option to +-4EV and then take a 3 bracketed shot with one then switch to the other and do the same. I tried it out and it works pretty good.

I still stand by my suggestion to nikon though. :)
 
draacor said:
draacor wrote:
how many people upgrade to the next model because of a couple of software updates? i would say a very select few. Most people probably upgrade to the next model because of hardware differences not software. I really dont think this would harm their bottom line in one bit.
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Absolutely. Small upgrades would create goodwill and a feeling of future support. No one is going to buy the D7100 based only on something like a bracketing increase.

And besides, staying with Nikon will ensure they still have a customer to sell lenses and accessories to.
 
It would be easy for Nikon to change its mind get 100k purchasers to offer $100 or so for every major update and a tenth of that for minor updates or a subscription for $90 a year. Just like Software manufacturers.

I think your idea is great but not yet. Another 5 -10 years when cameras start to settle a little.

I wonder how many would really go for it now?

After a good deal more thought I might , I just might.
draacor said:
draacor wrote:

For not providing more regular updates to their firmware. One thing i would love to have is more than 3 bracketed shots available. This isn't something that is hardware dependent Give me 5 or better yet 9 bracketed shot ability. It feels like as soon as they release a camera they come out with maybe one firmware update that is basically useless anyway, and then that's it for the life of the camera. Then they expect you to just buy a new camera even though your current camera is more than capable of doing some of the functions of the newer one with a simple software update.
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RJNedimyer said:
RJNedimyer wrote:

It would be easy for Nikon to change its mind get 100k purchasers to offer $100 or so for every major update and a tenth of that for minor updates or a subscription for $90 a year. Just like Software manufacturers.
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Or pay by the photo.

Marketer's dream. Appeal to the customer's ego: "Only pay for the photos you want to take.", "Why subsidize inferior photographers?", "Rewarding the sophisticated photographer". Of course like mobile phones your credits will expire if not used.

The BRAND_X PR-1000. (PR internally standing for perpetual rental).

Could happen at some point no doubt...certainly that's the way many industries are heading.
 
tadj said:
tadj wrote:

Hey Sammy, don't give Nikon any ideas because some of the theoreticians who spout around these forums would happily accept a cheap camera and pay for 1000 shots up-front because for them a thousand clicks would last a lifetime.
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Nikon wouldn't necessarily start the ball rolling...I can see the ad campaign though


The BRAND-X PR-1000 - Why waste money on pictures you'll never take?

The BRAND-X PR-1000 - Rewarding the superior photographer.

PR standing for Progressive Recording....Internally PR will be code for Perpetual Rental. Marketing wouldn't approve of that leaking though...and I'm sure the CEO would not appreciate references to a cut and run strategy to cash in on the brand while running it for long term profitablility.
tadj said:
And don't knock us old timers because it could be argued that we invented stuff that lasted a lifetime whereas today's sad generation (it seems to me) can't get beyond inventing throw-away goods, upgrades and obsolescence.
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Sorry no insult intended. I'm no spring chicken myself.
tadj said:
But I enjoyed your parallel universe story because this old timer was brought up on science fiction.
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Sci-fi serves a social function as a warning of the potentials of the misuse of science and technology. Of course reality unfolds such that many of these lessons turn out to be nothing more than misplaced anxiety...but that's not true for everything.
 
Hi there!

I am getting confused; the subject seems to have transcended from a firmware update (for increasing the bracketed shots) to one of firmwares-for-more-features! To my limited understanding, software installed in cameras have the potential to deliver more than what they are currently delivering. Camera manufacturers make use of this to offer more features in their updated cameras with or without some additional hardware. Some could deliver 2x or 3x crops; while others may not. That's why we have a number of brands and models to choose from. If one is looking for a camera panacea, with the manufacturer providing whatever one needs through updates, perhaps that is expecting too much IMHO.

By the way, Magic Lantern has answered most needs of Canon's EOS system: Probably 9 frames could be taken in bracketed shots. May be, some day, Magic Wand (LOL) will surface to show light to the expectations of Nikon consumers!
 
Sammy Yousef said:
Sammy Yousef wrote:
Sammy Yousef said:
tadj wrote:

Hey Sammy, don't give Nikon any ideas because some of the theoreticians who spout around these forums would happily accept a cheap camera and pay for 1000 shots up-front because for them a thousand clicks would last a lifetime.
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Nikon wouldn't necessarily start the ball rolling...I can see the ad campaign though

The BRAND-X PR-1000 - Why waste money on pictures you'll never take?

The BRAND-X PR-1000 - Rewarding the superior photographer.

PR standing for Progressive Recording....Internally PR will be code for Perpetual Rental. Marketing wouldn't approve of that leaking though...and I'm sure the CEO would not appreciate references to a cut and run strategy to cash in on the brand while running it for long term profitablility.
Sammy Yousef said:
And don't knock us old timers because it could be argued that we invented stuff that lasted a lifetime whereas today's sad generation (it seems to me) can't get beyond inventing throw-away goods, upgrades and obsolescence.
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Sorry no insult intended. I'm no spring chicken myself.
Sammy Yousef said:
But I enjoyed your parallel universe story because this old timer was brought up on science fiction.
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Sci-fi serves a social function as a warning of the potentials of the misuse of science and technology. Of course reality unfolds such that many of these lessons turn out to be nothing more than misplaced anxiety...but that's not true for everything.
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I think Samsung is heading down that road with their new Android-based cameras. Want a 9 shot bracket at 2EV steps? Just buy the bracketing app and away you go. Want an intervalometer that does HDR time lapse based on 5 shot brackets? Just buy the app for that.

It's not a surprise that a challenger brand without a lot to lose like Samsung is going to innovate this way and force the 800# gorillas like Nikon and Canon to adapt or perish. Thus is the nature of the markets.
 
blue_cheese said:
blue_cheese wrote:
blue_cheese said:
antoineb wrote:

I don't think Nikon read these forums much.
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I actually think you are wrong here, both manufacturers and retailers actively read sites like these, not to do so would be doing business in the stone age.

My place of work has marketing and engineering staff to collect field reported issues on such forums and get them addressed. Otherwise the only point of customer feedback would be RMA returns to point of sale and warranty claims.
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Yes of course, large companies have SOME workforce that reads sites and forums - but they don't see everything because they don't have infinite resources.

Therefore, submitting feedback via their support web sites is much, much, much more efficient.

The question being, does the person seeking an improvement, just want air time on a forum and/or vent frustration and/or show how creative they are, or, do they actually want to help improve a product?
 
I agree..., and that's great! THOSE WHO WANT may download and use it. That way the menus are not clogged with features that a photographer may not prefer to have. Once upon a time, as you know, one needed to acquire the art and skill of photography...., but today, it is necessary to painstakingly learn the skills to use the menus, buttons and other technicalities of the camera...et al! LOL!
 
This is the reason I am somewhat excited about bringing "apps" to the camera world - as Sony is starting to do. It would be great to be able to add a more advanced bracketing app [as the OP would like] or to add focus stacking or star trail or whatever specialized app to help get the shot we're after.

I just hope it doesn't actually result in cameras getting dumbed-down - requiring expensive a la carte add-ons to bring the camera's functionality up to today's capabilities.
 
draacor said:
draacor wrote:

I wonder how upset people would be if say Microsoft would do the same tactic. What if in order to get a new version if IE you had to just buy it? To get any new features added to windows you just had to buy the next version of windows. I'm pretty sure people would be awfully outraged by that, but that's because we have been conditioned from the start to expect regular updates to the system and then every now and then upgrade to a new version by purchasing.

In fact I think cameras are the only device that comes to mind that uses software to control its primary functions that hardly ever comes out with improvements to it without buying a new model.
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Internet Explorer has to be given away because of the massive competition from free browsers, not to mention the fact that it is free in the first place, so that is not a very fair comparison.

Video game updates that add new features and levels are called Expansions and they cost money. Microsoft charges more for the next version of Office, which is just a whole bunch of new features. On occasion they add new features, but that is only to maintain backwards compatibility which will drive the new technology.




If you want features that are not in your camera then be a little more careful next time you make a purchase and make sure it has all the features you want.
 
RicohPentax said:
RicohPentax wrote:
RicohPentax said:
draacor wrote:

I wonder how upset people would be if say Microsoft would do the same tactic. What if in order to get a new version if IE you had to just buy it? To get any new features added to windows you just had to buy the next version of windows. I'm pretty sure people would be awfully outraged by that, but that's because we have been conditioned from the start to expect regular updates to the system and then every now and then upgrade to a new version by purchasing.

In fact I think cameras are the only device that comes to mind that uses software to control its primary functions that hardly ever comes out with improvements to it without buying a new model.
Click to expand...
Internet Explorer has to be given away because of the massive competition from free browsers, not to mention the fact that it is free in the first place, so that is not a very fair comparison.

Video game updates that add new features and levels are called Expansions and they cost money. Microsoft charges more for the next version of Office, which is just a whole bunch of new features. On occasion they add new features, but that is only to maintain backwards compatibility which will drive the new technology.

If you want features that are not in your camera then be a little more careful next time you make a purchase and make sure it has all the features you want.
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This would only make sense if you knew what you wanted from the start and never grew as a photographer. But for a 1300 dollar piece of equipment I don't think i should grow out of it in 2 years, it should last me a while and will. There are many aspects of a digital camera nowadays that probably most people don't even utilitze. Once i started learning about bracketing with the camera i have is when i thought it would be nice to be able to bracket more than 3 shots. But c'mon no one can sit there and tell me it would be awful if nikon offered something like that with a software update? I'm greedy i could care less about how that would change the camera landscape 20 years from now no one knows what will happen. All i know is if i want to do more than 3 bracketed shots I'm stuck with buying a whole new camera or find out a workaround of some kind that still wont get me the best results, what a waste. I'm not asking for the moon here. I think what is frustrating is my camera the hardware is fully capable of such a feat, its just limited by the software and most definitely limited on purpose by nikon from the start so as to force people to buy their 3000 dollar camera for more bracketed shots? lol. It just smells like a very artificial way of forcing a gap in there somewhere between their high end cameras and their prosumer cameras.
 
I get what you are saying, but you are only one voice out of thousands. There are hundreds of requests that people are making, who is to say that yours is the one that is deserved? Someone else might want another scene mode, built in HDR, range finder capability, more white balance settings, etc.

You look at your request and see it as "reasonable", but there are hundreds of equally "reasonable" requests out there and Nikon has to draw the line somewhere and they drew it at 3 brackets and the scene modes they have.

Of course we grow as photographers, and generally speaking we start with a cheap camera and then get a better one. We start with a beginner camera, then move to more advanced and then if we are lucky we get a pro model one day.
draacor said:
draacor wrote:
This would only make sense if you knew what you wanted from the start and never grew as a photographer. But for a 1300 dollar piece of equipment I don't think i should grow out of it in 2 years, it should last me a while and will. There are many aspects of a digital camera nowadays that probably most people don't even utilitze. Once i started learning about bracketing with the camera i have is when i thought it would be nice to be able to bracket more than 3 shots. But c'mon no one can sit there and tell me it would be awful if nikon offered something like that with a software update? I'm greedy i could care less about how that would change the camera landscape 20 years from now no one knows what will happen. All i know is if i want to do more than 3 bracketed shots I'm stuck with buying a whole new camera or find out a workaround of some kind that still wont get me the best results, what a waste. I'm not asking for the moon here. I think what is frustrating is my camera the hardware is fully capable of such a feat, its just limited by the software and most definitely limited on purpose by nikon from the start so as to force people to buy their 3000 dollar camera for more bracketed shots? lol. It just smells like a very artificial way of forcing a gap in there somewhere between their high end cameras and their prosumer cameras.

--
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VIJAYRAGHAVAN said:
VIJAYRAGHAVAN wrote:

I agree..., and that's great! THOSE WHO WANT may download and use it. That way the menus are not clogged with features that a photographer may not prefer to have. Once upon a time, as you know, one needed to acquire the art and skill of photography...., but today, it is necessary to painstakingly learn the skills to use the menus, buttons and other technicalities of the camera...et al! LOL!
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I want to buy my camera just once and have all the features. I don't want to be nickel and dimed to death. I don't want to think about the family finances every time I want to try something new with my camera. I already have to make those decisions with accessories. It's a lot easier to budget for/convince the spouse/justify a single purchase every 2 years than a slightly smaller initial outlay and an endless stream of micro-payments. Go down this route and you'll decimate the enthusiast market with a continued migration to


Want simplified menu? We already have it. It's called My Menu.


It amazes me that consumers enthusiastically embrace things that are designed to wring money out of them with no benefit to them whatsoever.

I see every software locked feature as a missed opportunity, and I don't understand how camera companies can want to go down that path. You'd have more success wringing $1 extra out of every customer to add a feature, than convincing each customer of spending $10 on an app with a success rate of 10%.

Want to innovate? Do so by offering the most attractive overall package and actually pay customer service and QC more than just lip service.
 
Sammy Yousef said:
Sammy Yousef wrote:
Sammy Yousef said:
VIJAYRAGHAVAN wrote:

I agree..., and that's great! THOSE WHO WANT may download and use it. That way the menus are not clogged with features that a photographer may not prefer to have. Once upon a time, as you know, one needed to acquire the art and skill of photography...., but today, it is necessary to painstakingly learn the skills to use the menus, buttons and other technicalities of the camera...et al! LOL!
Click to expand...
I want to buy my camera just once and have all the features. I don't want to be nickel and dimed to death. I don't want to think about the family finances every time I want to try something new with my camera. I already have to make those decisions with accessories. It's a lot easier to budget for/convince the spouse/justify a single purchase every 2 years than a slightly smaller initial outlay and an endless stream of micro-payments. Go down this route and you'll decimate the enthusiast market with a continued migration to

Want simplified menu? We already have it. It's called My Menu.

It amazes me that consumers enthusiastically embrace things that are designed to wring money out of them with no benefit to them whatsoever.

I see every software locked feature as a missed opportunity, and I don't understand how camera companies can want to go down that path. You'd have more success wringing $1 extra out of every customer to add a feature, than convincing each customer of spending $10 on an app with a success rate of 10%.

Want to innovate? Do so by offering the most attractive overall package and actually pay customer service and QC more than just lip service.

--
Sammy.
My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.
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Yes my friend... me too would like to have an `All-in-one' one time investment camera. But gone are those days when technology was advancing in arithmetic proportions. In today's technology galloping with geometric ratios...every other day you have a new feature.

Almost all cameras we talk about are capable of capturing great pictures...All cameras have usable features...may be one needs to get used to the menu systems. Let's go out and shoot...shoot...shoot pictures. If we start shooting complaints... perhaps we should do it every day ...with every model !!

(LOL)..sounding philosophy ??? Three cheers...! I love my 60d, its 18-200 mm lens and the Magic Lantern; the world is under my feet. Though it is another matter that I am hopping and hopping, ... hoping to take off some day! Here is a picture taken by my wife with her NIKON COOLPIX-P80 ; Cool..?!

f9af63a49f6e4c1998aeae9ea6352bc6.jpg
 
Sammy Yousef said:
Sammy Yousef wrote:
Sammy Yousef said:
VIJAYRAGHAVAN wrote:

I agree..., and that's great! THOSE WHO WANT may download and use it. That way the menus are not clogged with features that a photographer may not prefer to have. Once upon a time, as you know, one needed to acquire the art and skill of photography...., but today, it is necessary to painstakingly learn the skills to use the menus, buttons and other technicalities of the camera...et al! LOL!
Click to expand...
I want to buy my camera just once and have all the features. I don't want to be nickel and dimed to death. I don't want to think about the family finances every time I want to try something new with my camera. I already have to make those decisions with accessories. It's a lot easier to budget for/convince the spouse/justify a single purchase every 2 years than a slightly smaller initial outlay and an endless stream of micro-payments. Go down this route and you'll decimate the enthusiast market with a continued migration to

Want simplified menu? We already have it. It's called My Menu.

It amazes me that consumers enthusiastically embrace things that are designed to wring money out of them with no benefit to them whatsoever.

I see every software locked feature as a missed opportunity, and I don't understand how camera companies can want to go down that path. You'd have more success wringing $1 extra out of every customer to add a feature, than convincing each customer of spending $10 on an app with a success rate of 10%.

Want to innovate? Do so by offering the most attractive overall package and actually pay customer service and QC more than just lip service.
Click to expand...
 
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