730, 740 uz fans- do you miss OIS?

Hi,

I am wondering how important image stabilization is on a big zoom. Do you feel you use the upper end of the zoom a lot? Do your images suffer from camera shake? I have a Panasonic FZ-1 on hold for me at the local Ritz but I am getting cold feet-- maybe want to hold out for a 750 but the IS is hanging me up.

aremac

I'm not as steady as I was, and the IS feature of the UZI is imperative for me.

Search this forum and you'll find that if you are talented and young like Daniella, you might be able to get away without the IS.

You can see what I was able to do at about 75 feet with the UZI and the B-300 at..

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=5091820

Admittedly I had to crop a bunch out to get the scenes I wanted, but without the IS none of this would have been possible for me.

And this was done leaning against a post. Yea, I know that this isn't a diffinative answer, but maybe it will get the "FORUM" talking.

--
John,

'Superstition and peer pressure direct human activity in the absence of knowledge.' Issac Azimov.

I have a C-700 and an uzi. I find that except in lower light I can take as sharp a pic with the 700 as the uzi. In fact, I often times turn off the IS on the uzi because the gyro's can actually cause blurring when the camera is held rock steady (as on a tripod).

I'm looking forward to the C-750 and have no qualms about the lack of IS.

I'm not a youngster either (let's just say I can remember exactly where I was and what I was doing the day JFK was shot).

streetshot said:

I have a C-700 and an uzi. I find that except in lower light I can
take as sharp a pic with the 700 as the uzi.

Click to expand...

Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean with "lower light" ?
Is it outside on a cloudy day ?
Is it indoors without flash ?

I'm also thinking about waiting out the C750 instead of the FZ1, but I'm a bit afraid that I will miss a lot of photo opportunities due to the lack of IS.
In what specific situations does IS really make a difference ?
How about panning fast moving objects, like cars or birds ?

I've seen that most, if not all review sample pictures of the C7X0-line has been taken outdoors with a shutter speed of 1/1000. This can clearly not always be possible, but under what typical circumstances outside do you really have to lower the shutter speed enough to make IS come into play.

Indoors I think there in fact may be less of a problem than you think, since you rarely will zoom maximum indoors to frame a shot, unless you are in a very big place, or am I wrong here ?
Any comments ?

regards

HAL

I have no trouble with shaking or blurred images, never use a tripod and also add a B-300 sometimes.

--
Mariette
++++++++++++++
Please visit my album at http://www.mydigishots.com

I'm a 2100 user. One thing that IS gives me is just a little more comfort with the pictures I take at 10x... I recently took some in a situation where the wind was blowing approx 30-40mph non-stop, the shutter speed was 1/350, without IS, I probably would have had more blurred pictures.

(Try bracing yourself to the railing of a swaying observation platform and see how unproductive that is. :-O)

Personally I use close the max. zoom more than the wide setting. Don't tend to use much in between... it always seems like I can't get close enough, or cannot get wide enough. ;-> But it all depends on what sort of pictures you like taking.

I also have relatively shakey hands (enough such that the tip of a soldering iron I hold jumps around approx. 3mm) so IS helps alot with 10x zoom shots.

In my C-2100, the playback display, even at maximum zoom is not large enough to show the picture taken at 1:1 resolution, so many times, I check the photo in the field and it looks okay, but when I download it later and look at it at full resolution, it turns out it was blurry... so I just consider the IS as some extra insurance to help ensure that the one-of-a-kind shot I'm taking is not blurry.

This was a relatively easy decision for me in the C-700 vs. C-2100 days, but now with the 4MP C-750 vs. 2MP FZ1 it's a much harder decision.

I'm not sure if the FZ-1 supports an external TTL flash, the C-750 does: that'll be important if you ever wish to add some more power to the wimpy internal flash.

Wilson

aremac said:

Hi,
I am wondering how important image stabilization is on a big zoom.
Do you feel you use the upper end of the zoom a lot? Do your images
suffer from camera shake? I have a Panasonic FZ-1 on hold for me at
the local Ritz but I am getting cold feet-- maybe want to hold out
for a 750 but the IS is hanging me up.

Click to expand...

I never missed image stabilization and can take handheld shot at full zoom up to 1/30s without much problem. I recently bought a Minolta Dimage 7 and I cannot do that well at full zoom but still acceptable at about 1/60s.

I think the c7xx are very easy to handheld the way they are designed. I think image stabilization is very useful at shutter speed between 1/10s and 1/50s, but I cannot say that I have ever feel the need for IS.

If you don't have stable hands then you maybe better off with a camera with IS, but I woudl suggest that you try it first. Hold the camera and try taking some photos to see.

aremac said:

Hi,
I am wondering how important image stabilization is on a big zoom.
Do you feel you use the upper end of the zoom a lot? Do your images
suffer from camera shake? I have a Panasonic FZ-1 on hold for me at
the local Ritz but I am getting cold feet-- maybe want to hold out
for a 750 but the IS is hanging me up.

Click to expand...

--
Daniella
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.

I don't think you will feel the need for IS before shutter speed of 1/100s or slower. This means in situation like indoor without flash.

On cloudy day you should not have any problem.

MRHAL said:

streetshot said:

I have a C-700 and an uzi. I find that except in lower light I can
take as sharp a pic with the 700 as the uzi.

Click to expand...

Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean with "lower
light" ?
Is it outside on a cloudy day ?
Is it indoors without flash ?

I'm also thinking about waiting out the C750 instead of the FZ1,
but I'm a bit afraid that I will miss a lot of photo opportunities
due to the lack of IS.
In what specific situations does IS really make a difference ?
How about panning fast moving objects, like cars or birds ?
I've seen that most, if not all review sample pictures of the
C7X0-line has been taken outdoors with a shutter speed of 1/1000.
This can clearly not always be possible, but under what typical
circumstances outside do you really have to lower the shutter speed
enough to make IS come into play.
Indoors I think there in fact may be less of a problem than you
think, since you rarely will zoom maximum indoors to frame a shot,
unless you are in a very big place, or am I wrong here ?
Any comments ?

regards

HAL

Click to expand...

--
Daniella
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.

I have aC700 and have never had IS. What you have never had I suppose you never miss. I have continue to practice holding the camera steady while carefully pressing the shutter button and can reliably shoot to 1/30 sec without zoom, and about 1/100 sec on full zoom.

Brian

Have used both the FZ1 and C740. Neither camera had any problems with blurred images at full zoom. You need to be aware of shutter speed on the 740, but didn't seem to be much of a problem. The big difference is the pixels. The FZ1 just doesn't have enough for really sharp 8x10 prints (at least for my eyes). I'm waiting for the 750.
Good luck.

Jack

brianj said:

I have aC700 and have never had IS. What you have never had I
suppose you never miss. I have continue to practice holding the
camera steady while carefully pressing the shutter button and can
reliably shoot to 1/30 sec without zoom, and about 1/100 sec on
full zoom.

Brian

Click to expand...

jack scholl said:

Jack

Jack Scholl, How did image quality compare for the two cameras for 4x6 prints? That could decide it for me.

Click to expand...

Thank you everyone for your responses. I did have a 730 for a couple of weeks and used the zoom indoors to document my childrens' hamster for a science project. I did like the image quality very much-- I found the camera a little frustrating when photographing my kids in a school play-- slow!

If all you are printing is 4x6's, I'd go with the FZ1, Even tho the Olympus has lots of control choices and is smaller (it will fit into a large pocket), the FZ1 is a faster camera and is a lot of "fun" to use. If the FZ1 were 3MP, I would have kept it.
Jack

aremac said:

jack scholl said:

Jack

Jack Scholl, How did image quality compare for the two cameras for 4x6 prints? That could decide it for me.

Click to expand...

Thank you everyone for your responses. I did have a 730 for a
couple of weeks and used the zoom indoors to document my
childrens' hamster for a science project. I did like the image
quality very much-- I found the camera a little frustrating when
photographing my kids in a school play-- slow!

Click to expand...

jack scholl said:

If all you are printing is 4x6's, I'd go with the FZ1, Even tho
the Olympus has lots of control choices and is smaller (it will fit
into a large pocket), the FZ1 is a faster camera and is a lot of
"fun" to use. If the FZ1 were 3MP, I would have kept it.
Jack

Click to expand...

Hi Jack,

So image quality was comparable? For indoor shots too? I didn't realize the FZ1 was so bulky.
Aremac

Its not "bulky', just not as small as the Olympus. Always had it around my neck as it didn't feel right anywhere else. The 740 stayed in a large pocket if I wasn't using it. The few indoor shots I took with both seemed comparable. The fast Leica lens is a plus.

You should hold/use both these cameras-Ritz has a 14 day return policy. Try both out.
Jack

aremac said:

jack scholl said:

If all you are printing is 4x6's, I'd go with the FZ1, Even tho
the Olympus has lots of control choices and is smaller (it will fit
into a large pocket), the FZ1 is a faster camera and is a lot of
"fun" to use. If the FZ1 were 3MP, I would have kept it.
Jack

Click to expand...

Hi Jack,
So image quality was comparable? For indoor shots too? I didn't
realize the FZ1 was so bulky.
Aremac

Click to expand...

I had my C-740 @ a soccer match yesterday, and took some shots. It was cloudy and raining, in the evening (after 7pm). I'm a total newbie, got my camera last week. These shots were taken in sports mode, HI 3 pic in a row drive mode. Images are resized to 800x600 due to size limitation.

These shots are are MAX Zoom

Daniella said:

On cloudy day you should not have any problem.

MRHAL said:

streetshot said:

I have a C-700 and an uzi. I find that except in lower light I can
take as sharp a pic with the 700 as the uzi.

Click to expand...

Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean with "lower
light" ?
Is it outside on a cloudy day ?
Is it indoors without flash ?

I'm also thinking about waiting out the C750 instead of the FZ1,
but I'm a bit afraid that I will miss a lot of photo opportunities
due to the lack of IS.
In what specific situations does IS really make a difference ?
How about panning fast moving objects, like cars or birds ?
I've seen that most, if not all review sample pictures of the
C7X0-line has been taken outdoors with a shutter speed of 1/1000.
This can clearly not always be possible, but under what typical
circumstances outside do you really have to lower the shutter speed
enough to make IS come into play.
Indoors I think there in fact may be less of a problem than you
think, since you rarely will zoom maximum indoors to frame a shot,
unless you are in a very big place, or am I wrong here ?
Any comments ?

regards

HAL

Click to expand...

--
Daniella
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND,
Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.

Click to expand...

Daniella may hold the record for the steadiest hand, but I
tried some shots last week with the IS on and off on my
c2100. At full zoom (10X) I could get equally sharp pictures
down to 1/160 sec with and without IS.

Seems reasonable to expect good results without IS at
about 1/250 sec if you use good camera technique. And
for any kind of subject action, you will need at least that
anyway.

I think IS is important for shots in low, artificial lighting
when you have to use maximum telephoto. That's just
a few percent of the shots I take.

regards,
Darrell

Darrell Spreen said:

Daniella may hold the record for the steadiest hand, but I
tried some shots last week with the IS on and off on my
c2100. At full zoom (10X) I could get equally sharp pictures
down to 1/160 sec with and without IS.

Seems reasonable to expect good results without IS at
about 1/250 sec if you use good camera technique. And
for any kind of subject action, you will need at least that
anyway.

I think IS is important for shots in low, artificial lighting
when you have to use maximum telephoto. That's just
a few percent of the shots I take.

Click to expand...

That also includes shots in twilight - which is any time after 4-5 pm in winter, and even in deep shade on a sunny day (e.g. bird photography in a forest), so it's not all that rare to need full telephoto at under 1/100.
--
Misha

misha said:

That also includes shots in twilight - which is any time after 4-5
pm in winter, and even in deep shade on a sunny day (e.g. bird
photography in a forest), so it's not all that rare to need full
telephoto at under 1/100.

Click to expand...

If you use the "rule of thumb", you need 1/ ISO at f/16 for a very
bright sun. Typically, deep shade is 4-5 stops less light. If
you use ISO 400, you can take shots under those conditions
with a shutter speed of 1/400 sec. At ISO 200, maybe 1/200.

BTW, I was very impressed with the noise pattern at ISO 400
on the c740. Very clean grain, sort of like film at ISO 400.

Correct my calculations if I've made a mistake.

thanks,
D

Darrell Spreen said:

If you use the "rule of thumb", you need 1/ ISO at f/16 for a very
bright sun. Typically, deep shade is 4-5 stops less light. If
you use ISO 400, you can take shots under those conditions
with a shutter speed of 1/400 sec. At ISO 200, maybe 1/200.

BTW, I was very impressed with the noise pattern at ISO 400
on the c740. Very clean grain, sort of like film at ISO 400.

Click to expand...

I'd still rather not use ISO200, much less 400 unless I have to - at least based on the experience with the UZi, though the 740 may be better at high ISO. As for shutter speed, just this evening at about 6.30 - on an overcast day, but about an hour before sunset, it was fairly light, I was trying to take pictures of a pair of finches on my balcony - the fastest I could get at full zoom was 1/50 at ISO400.
--
Misha

If you do night shots esp. streets shots. IS is a MUST. I have done
1/20 at ISO 100, wide
1/6 at ISO 200, wide

without tripod, IS on of coz
--
~ Uzi since 12/2001, Merely a View