used another digicam for one day...

This weekend my sister had a party for one of the kids. Since there were a lot of friends and family around she asked me to take some snapshots with her new digicam, a Nikon Coolpix 4300.

I have seen prints of images taken with this little camera and I must say I really liked the sharpness, accurate lighting and nice colours. So there is really nothing wrong with the Nikon BUT when using it I realised how fortunate I am to own an F717 instead!

The Nikon is a range finder camera, and I soon learned that taking well framed pictures with a range finder camera is even more difficult then I expected it to be, most of the images I shot will require additional cropping.

Next thing I really missed was having all information about camera settings and focussing area in my viewfinder. It was a bright sunny day and the LCD was useless. I never imagined that i would feel so uncertain when shooting images without all those valuable feedback right in front of me all the time.

Please understand that this post is not meant to be Nikon bashing. In fact I think that my remarks are valid for a lot of other range finder digicams (which may not even make images as beautifull as the Nikon can). The reason I am posting this is because every now and then people post a "which cam should I buy" question where they try to choose between a range finder cam or an S602/ F717 / 7i. They often have a clear opinion about image quality, menu features, resolution, batteries or the type of memory cards used. What they often forget about is the huge advantage you have when you are able to look through the lens and see the exact image the CCD is going to capture including all relevant data and a life histogram.

My experience learned that comparing an EVF type camera with a viewfinder camera is rather silly. It's like comparing a bycicle with a real motorbike. They both have two weels an will get you where you want to go but you cannot compare the experience when riding on them...

Once again: I am not saying one is better then the other, they just are far more different then I had ever imagined...

--
Hewy
F717
http://www.pbase.com/huubverm

...regarding the viewfinder. After using the EVF on my Oly 2100, I simply could not stand not having the information available in the viewfinder. This is what finally tipped my decision away from the G3.
--
Daniel
Sony 717, Oly 2100, Nikon 6006, Pentax ME Super Program
http://www.pbase.com/dvogel11

And I absolutely LOVE riding a bicycle! The peace, the physical challenge, the experience is infinitely better than riding some loud, gas guzzling, environment unfriendly mechanical beast!

er... or did you mean the other way around? ;-)
R2

hewy said:

My experience learned that comparing an EVF type camera with a
viewfinder camera is rather silly. It's like comparing a bycicle
with a real motorbike. They both have two weels an will get you
where you want to go but you cannot compare the experience when
riding on them...
--
Hewy
F717
http://www.pbase.com/huubverm

Click to expand...

R2,

To be honest: I don´t have a license to ride a motorbike and i probably will never try to get one. I didn´t want to state that one is better then the other they are just very different... just as the Dark Vader is quite different from Luke Skywalker ;-)

May the force be with you (you will certainly need it on your bicycle in heavy winds... ).

Hewy

R2D2 said:

er... or did you mean the other way around? ;-)
R2

hewy said:

My experience learned that comparing an EVF type camera with a
viewfinder camera is rather silly. It's like comparing a bycicle
with a real motorbike. They both have two weels an will get you
where you want to go but you cannot compare the experience when
riding on them...
--
Hewy
F717
http://www.pbase.com/huubverm

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Hewy
F717
http://www.pbase.com/huubverm

Have followed this forum for nearly a year and . . .

although I love carrying my little DSC P1 in my pocket, taken many more pics that I ever used to of flowers in my garden, beaches, bush and grand kids,
printing what I think are great photos, even one A4 on a Canon 4550!!

I have loved some of the work shown on STF taken by the F 717.

you have just pushed me off my bike hewy
reading your post I finally decied to go for it and carry another camera
in my bag, and will have to get a bigger bike, (oh that should be bag)

I have ordered a F717. . .
and
it's all your fault

Sony DSC P1
Nikon 801s
Cannon BJC 4550

I am convinced you will not regret this decission.
Love to see your first images.

BTW: next time I post a thread like this i have to remember to buy Sony shares first, or at least make a deal on the additional turnover ;-))

Hewy

Dorothy Browne said:

Have followed this forum for nearly a year and . . .

although I love carrying my little DSC P1 in my pocket, taken many
more pics that I ever used to of flowers in my garden, beaches,
bush and grand kids,
printing what I think are great photos, even one A4 on a Canon 4550!!

I have loved some of the work shown on STF taken by the F 717.

you have just pushed me off my bike hewy
reading your post I finally decied to go for it and carry another
camera
in my bag, and will have to get a bigger bike, (oh that should be bag)

I have ordered a F717. . .
and
it's all your fault

Sony DSC P1
Nikon 801s
Cannon BJC 4550

Click to expand...

--
Hewy
F717
http://www.pbase.com/huubverm

Hi there, hewy -

Just a quick note point with regard to the 4300: It's not a rangefinder camera either in focusing method or in body type. Maybe you meant that it's simply a one-handed box-like camera (albeit with a rounded appearance).



Since it takes pictures in the same 4:3 format as the F717, then technically it should be able to take similar framing. It does have a wider lens at 8mm as opposed to the F717 9.7mm, however. So that may be the cause of your framing woes.

What is interesting is that sometimes you need the wider coverage, which is why so many folks buy the extra wide-angle lens for the F717 camera. I don't know whether the 4300 introduces a lot of distortion or not with its wider lens, but it goes to show you that it's all in knowing what you need out of your camera and using it to the fullest. For instance, you probably use a lot more telephoto and like to frame in a little tightly. For you, the F717 makes it easier to get the kind of shot you want from a given distance.

hewy said:

The Nikon is a range finder camera, and I soon learned that taking
well framed pictures with a range finder camera is even more
difficult then I expected it to be, most of the images I shot will
require additional cropping.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

I think he means "optical viewfinder", not rangefinder which is a distance measuring device, often built in to cameras to help with focus, usually with a split image... There are no rangefinder digicams that I know of.

Ulysses said:

Just a quick note point with regard to the 4300: It's not a
rangefinder camera either in focusing method or in body type. Maybe
you meant that it's simply a one-handed box-like camera (albeit
with a rounded appearance).



Since it takes pictures in the same 4:3 format as the F717, then
technically it should be able to take similar framing. It does have
a wider lens at 8mm as opposed to the F717 9.7mm, however. So
that may be the cause of your framing woes.

What is interesting is that sometimes you need the wider coverage,
which is why so many folks buy the extra wide-angle lens for the
F717 camera. I don't know whether the 4300 introduces a lot of
distortion or not with its wider lens, but it goes to show you that
it's all in knowing what you need out of your camera and using it
to the fullest. For instance, you probably use a lot more telephoto
and like to frame in a little tightly. For you, the F717 makes it
easier to get the kind of shot you want from a given distance.

hewy said:

The Nikon is a range finder camera, and I soon learned that taking
well framed pictures with a range finder camera is even more
difficult then I expected it to be, most of the images I shot will
require additional cropping.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

--
JohnK

Sorry to cause some confusion, I should have called a viewfinder camera.
Since my first language isn´t english I mix up some words every now and then.

The camera you showed in your post is indeed the camera I used. It´s not the actual lens angle that bothered me its the parallax and the fact that the image in the viewfinder only shows a certain percentage of the actual image captured.

I know this is not unusual for viewfinder cams, they often only show 85% of the actual image that is going to be captured. This is why you either need to anticipate on this effect or need to do cropping afterwards.

And I agree with Ulysses that having a wider angle lens then the F717 can be very handy, and it should have been more usefull to take snapshots at a party as I was doing (a garden after all has limited dimensions...).

Hewy

JohnK said:

Ulysses said:

Just a quick note point with regard to the 4300: It's not a
rangefinder camera either in focusing method or in body type. Maybe
you meant that it's simply a one-handed box-like camera (albeit
with a rounded appearance).

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/coolpix4300-review/camera-front

Since it takes pictures in the same 4:3 format as the F717, then
technically it should be able to take similar framing. It does have
a wider lens at 8mm as opposed to the F717 9.7mm, however. So
that may be the cause of your framing woes.

What is interesting is that sometimes you need the wider coverage,
which is why so many folks buy the extra wide-angle lens for the
F717 camera. I don't know whether the 4300 introduces a lot of
distortion or not with its wider lens, but it goes to show you that
it's all in knowing what you need out of your camera and using it
to the fullest. For instance, you probably use a lot more telephoto
and like to frame in a little tightly. For you, the F717 makes it
easier to get the kind of shot you want from a given distance.

hewy said:

The Nikon is a range finder camera, and I soon learned that taking
well framed pictures with a range finder camera is even more
difficult then I expected it to be, most of the images I shot will
require additional cropping.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

Click to expand...

--
JohnK

Click to expand...

--
Hewy
F717
http://www.pbase.com/huubverm

I just looked it up at imaging-resource. It seems the viewfinder of the 4300 actually only shows 79-81% of the entire image. That really explains part of my problem.

Once again: i´m not saying the camera is bad or anything I just posted this to share my experience that having direct and accurate feedback about both framing and camera settings is a huge advantage to me. This goes for many other EVF type camera´s (and SLRs) but it is often overlooked when comparing camera´s. Moving from an analog SLR to a digital viewfinder camera might turn out rather disappointing because of this.

Hewy

I was trying to be contrary too. I should have added more smileys.

R2D2 said:

er... or did you mean the other way around? ;-)

Click to expand...

p.s. It was so windy yesterday that I didn't even go outside, let alone ride. Instead I just had to tune up my light saber.
R2 (Live Long and Prosper - Ooops, wrong Star... movie)

hewy said:

R2,

To be honest: I don´t have a license to ride a motorbike and i
probably will never try to get one. I didn´t want to state that one
is better then the other they are just very different... just as
the Dark Vader is quite different from Luke Skywalker ;-)

May the force be with you (you will certainly need it on your
bicycle in heavy winds... ).

Hewy

Click to expand...

Thanks to God exists evfs in the world of digicams and is an affordable option while we are waiting for affordables DSLRs

That is a good point, I've had my s85 for a year now and I can't barely wait to upgrade to 717 with EVF.... the whole point of capturing photos gets damaged when you try to compose a nice photo in your OpticalVF on a sunny day when the LCD is not any good.

I actually had a friend with a P9 that was going to return his camera and claim a fabrication error. Why not? 80% is really bad...

Ok now I am even more exited over the 717, 2 months left.... then I am entering LA.... and Sears... wehooow! In Sweden the 717 still cost around $1300....wheppa!

Very good catch, JohnK. And you're exactly correct. There are no rangefinder digicams. But wouldn't it be interesting if there were? I'm sure that there would be a small niche following for those, just as there are for film. But there seems to be no interest on the part of the companies to produce them.

And thank you, Hewy, for coming back and explaining further.

JohnK said:

I think he means "optical viewfinder", not rangefinder which is a
distance measuring device, often built in to cameras to help with
focus, usually with a split image... There are no rangefinder
digicams that I know of.

Click to expand...

--

Ulysses

No, it does not sound like you are bashing at all.

hewy said:

I just looked it up at imaging-resource. It seems the viewfinder of
the 4300 actually only shows 79-81% of the entire image. That
really explains part of my problem.

Click to expand...

I know what you mean. It makes it difficult to figure out exactly what is going to be framed in the shot, whether you are shooting large groups of people, a landscape scene, or otherwise. You just don't know what will show up in the final shot when you are missing that final 20% of the photograph.

hewy said:

Once again: i´m not saying the camera is bad or anything I just
posted this to share my experience that having direct and accurate
feedback about both framing and camera settings is a huge advantage
to me. This goes for many other EVF type camera´s (and SLRs) but it
is often overlooked when comparing camera´s. Moving from an analog
SLR to a digital viewfinder camera might turn out rather
disappointing because of this.

Click to expand...

What is nice about the EVF or the LCD is that they show you pretty much what the sensor can see. However, what I dislike about the EVF is that it is still such low resolution that it makes it difficult to determine whether things are in fact in focus. I look forward to seeing better versions of the LCD and EVF.

--

Ulysses

Hi there,

i also orderd me a F717 and hopefully i will have it on the weekend and make some photos.

At the moment i am using an older Mavica, the pictures are also great but compared to the F717 pictures they don't really look so good any longer.

Best regards from Germany
CDRom

hewy said:

BTW: next time I post a thread like this i have to remember to buy
Sony shares first, or at least make a deal on the additional
turnover ;-))

Hewy

Dorothy Browne said:

Have followed this forum for nearly a year and . . .

although I love carrying my little DSC P1 in my pocket, taken many
more pics that I ever used to of flowers in my garden, beaches,
bush and grand kids,
printing what I think are great photos, even one A4 on a Canon 4550!!

I have loved some of the work shown on STF taken by the F 717.

you have just pushed me off my bike hewy
reading your post I finally decied to go for it and carry another
camera
in my bag, and will have to get a bigger bike, (oh that should be bag)

I have ordered a F717. . .
and
it's all your fault

Sony DSC P1
Nikon 801s
Cannon BJC 4550

Click to expand...

--
Hewy
F717
http://www.pbase.com/huubverm

Click to expand...

--