Why do they still put PC Sockets on cameras

Can we not find a better solution for in camera sync connector. They are unreliable as all get out. I have always hand to secure them with tape before I can be sure they will go off and it still isnt 100 percent. I usually use pocket wizards but when I need to use on camera flash with off camera lights i have to hook in the pocket wizard through the pc socket. Also my sb-800s sometimes need to run off pocket wizards and its the only option for them too. Why cant Canon and nikon include and minijack mono connection to trigger lights it would hold itself in well and always work. it would be a god send to even photographers. everytime i have to use a pc socket i feel like i am handling technology from decades ago

I think maybe we should be glad they do. While they are imperfect, they are universal. Without it, everything would be proprietory, and fractured. At least the pc socket can be kludged to work with tape or other means. Compare to cable release, where there is virtually no homogenuity any more. Even within brands. At one time a ubiquitous cable release was cheap enough to be duplicated in any kit, fit any camera, and bought at any drugstore. Now they are expensive upchain accessories. Surely manufacturers could have made small 'moving part' conectors internal to the bodies that acted like shutter buttons with initial part-press and then full-press. I know that attaching 'cable' release to my nikon d300 is an exersize in frustration to get locked on for me with non-minature fingers!

absolutley not. there is nothing proprietary about the 10 other kind of sync cords out there. 1/8 minijack the obvious choice to replace is if anything less proprietary and i have bought cables for my pocket wizards witch use mini jack at radio shack

That's the real answer. Most camera to computer links have been USB 1.1, so Firewire (initially) then USB2 and now of course, even faster USB3 is the best method by far. Many camera connectors (inside camera) fail fairly rapidly - so whatever the linking method becomes irrelevant in the real world. Probably the safest linking method - and for charging the camera's battery - was the Kodak system of a docking base.

you have no idea what i am talking about

Kodachrome200 said:

Kodachrome200 wrote:

Can we not find a better solution for in camera sync connector. They are unreliable as all get out. I have always hand to secure them with tape before I can be sure they will go off and it still isnt 100 percent. I usually use pocket wizards but when I need to use on camera flash with off camera lights i have to hook in the pocket wizard through the pc socket. Also my sb-800s sometimes need to run off pocket wizards and its the only option for them too. Why cant Canon and nikon include and minijack mono connection to trigger lights it would hold itself in well and always work. it would be a god send to even photographers. everytime i have to use a pc socket i feel like i am handling technology from decades ago

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It IS technology from decades ago... 1930s

The reason it is still there, is because it is an established standard, like the querty keyboard you typed on. Its survival transcends whether or not it is the best way to do it (it isn't).

I get that its a standard but i keep thinking about what would be hard about switching to 1/8 mono minijack and it seems like it would be painless

I have never had a problem, and I shoot mostly studio using RF Triggers.

Maybe it's your equipment.

AllMankind said:

AllMankind wrote:

I have never had a problem, and I shoot mostly studio using RF Triggers.

Maybe it's your equipment.

Click to expand...

I have been using wired flash triggering to my main light for 50 years of pro shooting. Yes, the 3mm co-ax PC socket can be a source of problems, but 97% of the time it works well enough. It's never been so bad I felt the need to replace it with an IR or other wireless link, at least, not for indoor shooting.

Despite being rather fragile, it is also SHALLOW, and easy to kick apart harmlessly, if you are unlucky enough to trip over it. For this reason I like white or yellow sync leads, but cannot find them easily.... black is almost universal...[??]

For the reason above, if it was replaced, my wish would be for something similarly shallow and lacking in "roots" within the camera's guts. I want it to come apart easily, without exerting any great leverage on the components inside, even if the drag is NOT axial.

FYI, the best flash connector I ever had was on a humble Brownie Twin 20, which came in a kit with a Brownie Flash Holder for flash bulbs. The electrical connections were made through a pin and captive screw arrangement which also locked the two together in an assembly so robust that the camera could not just carried by the flash, in the manner of any hand grip, but it could actually be SHAKEN vigorously without any chance of it loosening. Very impressive,

If interested, see the pin and screw sockets of the first camera I bought with my own money, here...

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kodak_Brownie_Twin_20

Although the flash in this kit (video below) is possibly later, and appears more swanky than the cream plastic job I got in UK, some sense of the strength of the join can be seen in this video...

You can buy pc cords with thumb screws to keep them attached. I bought one from Nikon not long ago.

DaveOl said:

DaveOl wrote:

You can buy pc cords with thumb screws to keep them attached. I bought one from Nikon not long ago.

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Do you think that is such a good idea... ?

Like I say, I want it to come apart easily if inadvertently tugged. I do not need the whole camera, and its stand, to come crashing to the floor.
--
Regards,
Baz
"Ahh... But the thing is, these guys were no ORDINARY time travellers!"

Kodachrome200 said:

Kodachrome200 wrote: you have no idea what i am talking about

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I know exactly what you are talking about - hence my comments to employ a far more reliable and superior method, as I described, for camera based contacts - but was for file transfers. However, perhaps I should have put a broad grin avatar with it as was pulling your leg. Most flash sync contacts have had problems since the year dot - well remember many in the past with film cameras that stopped working fairly soon after new. For the most part, to get a decent reliable sync (pointing out, before someone shouts, never relied ever on anything auto based) I always used the top slide-in flash shoe - small adapters could convert the basic central contact to provide a simple co-axial outlet when any separate such outlet stopped working as mentioned, The top flash shoe seemed, in my experience, to always work, even if any dedicated extra contacts didn't.

Zone8 said:

Zone8 wrote:

Zone8 said:

Kodachrome200 wrote: you have no idea what i am talking about

Click to expand...

I know exactly what you are talking about - hence my comments to employ a far more reliable and superior method, as I describefd.

Click to expand...

What you described, Zone8, was a preferred method of uploading camera images to the computer, one that didn't use a USB connection to the camera.

What the OP was discussing was the reliability of flash leads, and the possible benefits of an updated connector to replace the 3mm co-ax PC plug.

Barrie




When you use a pc cord, don't you tape it down so you won't trip over it?

Also, don't they make infrared or radio ones for this situation?

Wrong change, there are thousands of studio and hand held flash units that still use the sockets, I personally use them often.

One thing you will observe, they only put PC sockets on UPPER SCALE cameras now, the cheapies don't have them. It has become perhaps a good yardstick for quality?

you do realize that all sync connectors are compatible with all sync connectors. flashes generally do not have pc sockets. they usually have household or 1/4 inch mono connectors. and they are of course cross compatible with eachother and everything else. there is no reason to keep using pc connectors




lower end cameras do not have them because beginners rarely use studio lights

Less expensive cameras do not have PC sockets because of the economics involved, in todays world it is too expensive to put them on cheap cameras especially ones with built-in flashes. I have 4 flash guns that utilize PC sockets with connection cords, both Potato mashers and Hot shoe plus a plethora of connecting cords. They are certianly more dependable than electronic triggers although not as convenient.

I'm "old school" though, use what I've accumulated over many years.

Barrie Davis said:

Barrie Davis wrote:

Barrie Davis said:

AllMankind wrote:

I have never had a problem, and I shoot mostly studio using RF Triggers.

Maybe it's your equipment.

Click to expand...

I have been using wired flash triggering to my main light for 50 years of pro shooting. Yes, the 3mm co-ax PC socket can be a source of problems, but 97% of the time it works well enough. It's never been so bad I felt the need to replace it with an IR or other wireless link, at least, not for indoor shooting.

Click to expand...

I used to use the standard PC socket to fire my studio strobes. Then I went to the light sensitive triggers, but they have problems in high ambient light. Eventually I went with RF and couldn't be happier
I love NOT being tethered to my strobes. It was always an irritation having that snyc cord trailing away from my camera, and I was always worried about tripping over it and damaging some of my equipment.

That said, I also never really had any issues using the PC socket.


.

DaveOl said:

DaveOl wrote:

Barrie

When you use a pc cord, don't you tape it down so you won't trip over it?

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Probably not, hand-held.

If I'm moving around with a hand-held camera, taping down isn't really possible It's simply a matter of being careful.

On a stand it's different.

If I'm shooting with a camera on a stand, and the sync lead happens to run across the main traffic route to the set, then it will be taped down securely or have a sheet of cardboard placed over it, notwithstanding that I'll not be moving around so much, so the trip hazard is reduced anyway.

More detail....

On the stand I always lock off the lead with its own Velcro cable tie around part of the stand structure adjacent to the camera, and from that point make the final connection by means of a generous bight of loose lead to the socket itself. Then, if anything should tug the cable, it doesn't put any strain on the PC connection, and neither does swinging/tilting the camera, as not even the full weight of the cable is dragging on the socket in this arrangement.

Note that on the stand the sync connection is but one of THREE wires plugged into camera, all similarly strain relieved by means of their own cable ties. The camera is tethered to the computer, and I always go over to mains operation in static studio operation, anyway. The cable ties are right there cow-hitched on the cable ready to use, because they are the same ones that keep the cables wound when packed.... a rather satisfying dual use.

DaveOl said:

Also, don't they make infrared or radio ones for this situation?

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Yes they do, but judging by the number of postings to the lighting forum concerned SOLELY with getting wireless synching to work at all, let alone reliably, my decision to bypass that technology until a need was identified, seems to have been a correct one.

(I won't need it now. I am retired.)

Kodachrome200 said:

Kodachrome200 wrote:

you do realize that all sync connectors are compatible with all sync connectors. flashes generally do not have pc sockets. they usually have household or 1/4 inch mono connectors. and they are of course cross compatible with eachother and everything else. there is no reason to keep using pc connectors

Click to expand...

In pro use we are more or less obliged to use a 3mm co-ax PC plug at the camera end... that is the part that gets waggled about most. Using a connection to the hot-shoe is possible, but even less convenient because of its over the lens location.

Kodachrome200 said:

lower end cameras do not have them because beginners rarely use studio lights

Click to expand...