They designed it that way because that is how it should be.. If I set min ISO 800 and turn on auto ISO, I do not want the ISO to go below 800 unless absolutely necessary because that is what I have told the camera to do. You want the camera to ignore my command and use whatever it chooses.
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Anyone understands the point of Nikon's Auto ISO logic on D600?
- Thread starter OutOfFocus student
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That's what the minimum shutter speed option is for.
OutOfFocus student
Active member
It's hard to understand what you wrote. In any case if I wanted consistent exposure with flash I'd not be using any form of AutoISO so this irrelevant to the discussion.
RP McMurphy
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I ahv e no idea of what you actually want. You seems to be flogging a dead horse here. Pretty much everybody has disagreed with you
You say there's 'no good reason to have it lower bounded(but plenty good reasons to have it otherwise)'
Sorry but ..what?
The objective is to have as low an iso as possible
The auto iso is linked to your lens and you set it if you want faster shutter speeds so you do not get motion blur. If you ahve shaky hands then the auto iso is set to be >1/FL
Now within that frame work there is nobody I know that would like a higher iso top be used where the shutter speed is suitable to the lens (as I say if 1/FL is not sufficient because you have shakey hands you set it higher, if 1/FL is too high because you have VR then it's set lower)
So who wants the correct shutter speed and as high an iso as possiible?
If you do then use shutter priority
It's different in manual because manual is manual and doesn't 'auto' for you
So I see absolutely zero logic in what you say, and from the other responses it seems that nobody else finds logic in what you want
OutOfFocus student
Active member
Indeed it's clear that you have no idea what I'm talking about. Do you even own a D600?
As far as I can see you are repeating exactly what I and a few others said.
This is nonsense. There are lots of Auto settings in M mode (AutoISO/AWB/AF)
Sorry, but I believe the issue here is reading comprehension on your side.
olyflyer
Forum Pro
Why did you mutilate my post and twist it into something I have NOT said? Are you doing it just so that you have something to argue about or is it because you did not understand what I have written?
The ISO will be lowered below the base ISO ONLY if the ISO base, shutter speed and aperture will result in overexposure. The variation is NOT between ISO 100 and the maximum ISO, but between the Auto ISO base and the maximum ISO. The camera will keep the ISO as near the Auto ISO base as possible if it needs to go below to avoid overexposure.
Right.
I have done all the testing I am ready to do in this subject. I know EXACTLY how it is working, so any more test is pointless because it will result in the same as before.
The camera will keep as high ISO as possible, as near as possible to ISO3200, but in my opinion this is a faulty, wrong setup for a test. The reason to set high base ISO is to be able to keep high shutter speed, and in your proposed test, in bright condition this is not realistic. Set base ISO to ISO1600 and shutter speed to 1/500 and see what happens...
The camera will keep as high ISO as possible, as near as possible to the base ISO. In your "test" scenario the camera will most probably go down to ISO100, assuming it is bright enough, and that's exactly what I'd expect it to do. This is NOT described in the manual, so the way I see it, the manual is wrong because it is not explaining what is happening and how it is working.
This whole exercise is pointless unless you create a useful test scenario. Of course if the conditions are bright enough the camera will go to ISO 100 and of course if the conditions are dark then the camera will go to maximum ISO, so the test scenario you defined is totally pointless because it has only one goal, to create a scenario to proof that the manual is right. This is not the way complex systems are tested and test scenarios are created.
Please stop mutilating my post just so that you can continue this pointless arguments to fit your agenda. If you don't understand what I am saying ask for clarification. My English is not perfect since it is a foreign language for me, so maybe I am not as clear as you wish me to be, but mutilating my posts won't improve clarity, since through your mutilation the message I was giving is twisted to nonsense. :-x
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olyflyer
Forum Pro
...as I explained and stated several times before. Unfortunately, he does not seem to understand that, nor how to test it and what the reason for this is.
olyflyer
Forum Pro
"We" don't fool ourselves at all. Only you are fooling yourself, defending the Nikon manual ad infinitum. You also not seem to understand why it does differently upwards than downwards. Raising ISO above the maximum ISO would violate the settings, after all it is called Maximum ISO. Going over the maximum would mean the IQ is damaged, going below the ISO base set for Auto ISO causes no IQ damage at all. I would NOT want the camera to go above the Maximum ISO, but don't mind if it goes below the base ISO for Auto ISO at all, as long as the shutter speed and the aperture is kept if I have fixed those.
olyflyer
Forum Pro
No, it will NEVER go below Minimum ISO. There is only one minimum ISO and you can not set that. What you can set is ISO sensitivity level, which is the base ISO for Auto ISO. Minimum ISO is fixed to 100 in the camera.
To turn what off? The Auto ISO? No, you don't need to set to ISO100 before you can turn Auto ISO off.
The reason to have a base minimum is to make sure you can keep a certain shutter speed and aperture combination. If you for example know that the camera will lower the shutter speed too much for your scenario and if you know that the light is variable there is all the reason one needs to set a higher than ISO100 as base ISO, but no, there is no reason to keep that and create a lot of overexposed images. Technically it is easier to save an underexposed than an overexposed image, so nor raising the maximum ISO but lowering the base ISO is a very good approach.
The D800 Auto ISO behaves exactly the same way in A, M and S modes.
I am open for suggestions... how could the Auto ISO be improved according to you?
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olyflyer
Forum Pro
It seems that you are not using A mode that often, otherwise you would understand that. A fixed aperture and a high, but automatically variable shutter speed is desirable in some situations. This can only be done if it is the way it is today. Maybe not something you like or understands the need for, but that's hardly relevant. If you don't need it, don't use it. Very simple.
What DPR things is pretty irrelevant. Don't forget that it is only the opinions of another individual, not an absolute truth.
Yes, I and many others seems to understand why it is designed this way. Follow up all the posts here and maybe you will understand as well, but it isn't really important why Nikon designed it this way.
If you never needed the feature you probably don't need to know why. I have been using this feature, and like it a lot, and also understand why it is this way. The way Auto ISO is working now is the way it should have been all the time. This is in my opinion a great improvement compared to how it was before in other cameras I have used previously.
olyflyer
Forum Pro
Or simply add a minimum ISO option in the auto ISO menu ? That way you get the best of both worlds.
No, it would be a pretty bad idea. A fixed minimum ISO would result in overexposure in some situations. I would not mind if they would have two different ISO sensitivity settings, one for the Auto ISO off and one to be used as base ISO for Auto ISO. That would give the best of both, but if there is just one item for this then I prefer the way it is.
Pradipta Dutta
Veteran Member
No, you did and continue to do so.
And you seem to not understand logic.
The same logic applies to Minimum ISO, which means ISO never goes below that point. And clearly that is 100 for D800, not the base ISO set in the camera as you yourself have seen.
Pradipta Dutta
Veteran Member
I am not mutilation anything. It is you who continues to come up with complex logic and not seem to understand what Minimum means.
Is it because you immediately prove that the camera really operates between ISO values 100 and the max value set by the user? So, that proves your point wrong.
I will not get into the Auto ISO algorithm. Only thing I stressing on is you are wrongly concluding that minimum ISO is the ISO value set in the camera. Instead it is actually 100 for D800.
Just as it goes down to ISO 100, it proves my point. I have already proven it. If you test, you will prove it as well.
I am not mutilating anything. It is you who acknowledges that camera goes down to ISO 100 but continues to argue that 100 is not the Minimum value. Simply accept that you are wrong.
pavi1
Veteran Member
When speaking of ISO, there are three minimums. First there is your camera's minimum ISO(200 on my D300S), then there is the minimum you have selected, and third on my camera there is L1.0. Just saying the word minimum does not identify what you are talking about without more information.
When you set ISO 800 and then turn on auto ISO, ISO will not go below 800 unless you hit a "wall".
A mode the wall is S maxes out and ISO needs to go below the base you have set to prevent overexposure.
S mode the wall is A maxes out and ISO needs to go below the base you have set to prevent overexposure.
M mode, if the S & A you select will result in overexposure, ISO will go below the base you have set to prevent overexposure.
Now I suppose we can start a long argument over the meaning of the work "base".
In my three examples, base means the ISO I set in the camera, not the manufactured base.
OutOfFocus student
Active member
What I refer to as MIN is what is used as minimum ISO (in analogy to MAX iso). I think you refer to it as base ISO (which certainly isn't a good name for it)
In A mode just turning autoISO off causes the most recent ISO to be used as MIN ISO. This is the non-sense since in most situations I want ISO 100 to be the minimum.
As explained controlling shutter via ISO is inconvenient and perverse. That's why we have min shutter settings and S mode.
Well, I'm talking about D600.
The natural way for AutoISO to behave is to always allow going to ISO 100. This is how it's implemented on all other camera systems I've seen.
pavi1
Veteran Member
They both work the same.
To always allow ISO to go to 100 is easy, set ISO to 100, then turn on auto ISO.
OutOfFocus student
Active member
Well in D600 AutoISO behaves differently in A and M modes so if you are right then the behavior is not the same.
Duh! That's what requires using both scroll wheels and means that most recently used ISO is not preserved. In other words in A mode it's the most cumbersome way to switch between normal AutoISO and manual ISO selection.
pavi1
Veteran Member
Well Duh right back at you. You want a camera that thinks for you, the rest want the camera to do as it is told. Guess they can't make everyone happy.
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