Why P7700 isn't having the success it deserves?

Altruisto said:

Altruisto wrote:

Altruisto said:

So while i would have liked the implementation of a discrete EVF "à là" P90, a tunnel like in P7000 or G15 is useless. Fuji X20 seems promising with its optical viewfinder with focus and settings indication superimposed on it.

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Altruisto said:

Altruisto wrote:

Dpreview used to be the website that points out the real camera strengths and weaknesses. Recent reviews are getting more automatic, more technical, rather than focusing on operation and pure image quality. It's been "consumerized"

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camerosity said:

camerosity wrote:

The fact that dpreview fails to give the 7700 a full review is an indicator of its corporate ownership. Canon is probably a sponsor, therefore it would prefer the 7700 be minimized vs. the inferior G15.

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Gimble said:

Gimble wrote:

I recently replaced my P7100 and I looked at all the usual compact suspects including the P7700, G15, XZ2 and RX100. Price was not a factor for me as here in the UK they are all in a similar price range. After reading many reviews and seeing the cameras in the flesh I went for the G15.

The RX100 fell down for me in its lack of direct controls and just feeling too small for me to grip comfortably. I generally shoot around 50 to 100mm and at this zoom the sensor advantage of the RX100 had to be weighed against the faster lens of the G15/P7700/XZ2. The XZ2 may be good but I couldn't get to see one in a shop. (It doesn't help that the UKs biggest camera chain has just closed down.)

My main reasons for going for the G15 over the P7700 were AF performance and JPEG colour. The P7700 may not be that slow but the G15 feels faster. I missed some shots of the children due to the AF performance on my P7100 - especially indoors. After trying one of the Sony compacts I saw that AF performance on a compact can be fast enough for moving subjects like children.

Many of the JPEGs that I have seen of the P7700 look very flat to me - for example the shot of Lars in the dpreview group test. This may be something that I can fix in PP but as I primarily use JPEGs this isn't something that I have much inclination to do or the skill to achieve. Overall the JPEGs of the G15 look far more attractive to me than thos of the P7700 - even if they may not be quite as realistic. The XZ2 has the best JPEGs that I have seen.

The P7700 and the XZ2 both seem to produce slightly sharper shots than the G15. However, I can only really see much of a difference when pixel peeping at 100%. (As in the examples in this thread.) So this is not a significant difference to me.

The loss of the viewfinder doesn't bother me - so was not a factor for me.

The articulating screen of the P7700 (and XZ2) is a slight advantage and is useful when shooting video. Also having a Nikon DSLR the P7700 would have worked with my existing flash.

I have only just got the G15 and initial impressions are good. It is too early to say whether the G15 is a keeper. Possibly the XZ2 may have been a better choice. That seems to be an even more overlooked camera than the P7700.

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Nikonworks said:

Nikonworks wrote:

If one is happy with a Canon, fine, go tell the Canon Forum.

His comments here in the Coolpix Forum make him appear a bit trollish.

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Nikonworks said:

Nikonworks wrote:

Nikonworks said:

Gimble wrote:

I recently replaced my P7100 and I looked at all the usual compact suspects including the P7700, G15, XZ2 and RX100. Price was not a factor for me as here in the UK they are all in a similar price range. After reading many reviews and seeing the cameras in the flesh I went for the G15.

The RX100 fell down for me in its lack of direct controls and just feeling too small for me to grip comfortably. I generally shoot around 50 to 100mm and at this zoom the sensor advantage of the RX100 had to be weighed against the faster lens of the G15/P7700/XZ2. The XZ2 may be good but I couldn't get to see one in a shop. (It doesn't help that the UKs biggest camera chain has just closed down.)

My main reasons for going for the G15 over the P7700 were AF performance and JPEG colour. The P7700 may not be that slow but the G15 feels faster. I missed some shots of the children due to the AF performance on my P7100 - especially indoors. After trying one of the Sony compacts I saw that AF performance on a compact can be fast enough for moving subjects like children.

Many of the JPEGs that I have seen of the P7700 look very flat to me - for example the shot of Lars in the dpreview group test. This may be something that I can fix in PP but as I primarily use JPEGs this isn't something that I have much inclination to do or the skill to achieve. Overall the JPEGs of the G15 look far more attractive to me than thos of the P7700 - even if they may not be quite as realistic. The XZ2 has the best JPEGs that I have seen.

The P7700 and the XZ2 both seem to produce slightly sharper shots than the G15. However, I can only really see much of a difference when pixel peeping at 100%. (As in the examples in this thread.) So this is not a significant difference to me.

The loss of the viewfinder doesn't bother me - so was not a factor for me.

The articulating screen of the P7700 (and XZ2) is a slight advantage and is useful when shooting video. Also having a Nikon DSLR the P7700 would have worked with my existing flash.

I have only just got the G15 and initial impressions are good. It is too early to say whether the G15 is a keeper. Possibly the XZ2 may have been a better choice. That seems to be an even more overlooked camera than the P7700.

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Why are you raising this dust in this forum.

The Canon forum is where you should post this.

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Gimble said:

Gimble wrote:

I recently replaced my P7100 and I looked at all the usual compact suspects including the P7700, G15, XZ2 and RX100. Price was not a factor for me as here in the UK they are all in a similar price range. After reading many reviews and seeing the cameras in the flesh I went for the G15.

The RX100 fell down for me in its lack of direct controls and just feeling too small for me to grip comfortably. I generally shoot around 50 to 100mm and at this zoom the sensor advantage of the RX100 had to be weighed against the faster lens of the G15/P7700/XZ2. The XZ2 may be good but I couldn't get to see one in a shop. (It doesn't help that the UKs biggest camera chain has just closed down.)

My main reasons for going for the G15 over the P7700 were AF performance and JPEG colour. The P7700 may not be that slow but the G15 feels faster. I missed some shots of the children due to the AF performance on my P7100 - especially indoors. After trying one of the Sony compacts I saw that AF performance on a compact can be fast enough for moving subjects like children.

Many of the JPEGs that I have seen of the P7700 look very flat to me - for example the shot of Lars in the dpreview group test. This may be something that I can fix in PP but as I primarily use JPEGs this isn't something that I have much inclination to do or the skill to achieve. Overall the JPEGs of the G15 look far more attractive to me than thos of the P7700 - even if they may not be quite as realistic. The XZ2 has the best JPEGs that I have seen.

The P7700 and the XZ2 both seem to produce slightly sharper shots than the G15. However, I can only really see much of a difference when pixel peeping at 100%. (As in the examples in this thread.) So this is not a significant difference to me.

The loss of the viewfinder doesn't bother me - so was not a factor for me.

The articulating screen of the P7700 (and XZ2) is a slight advantage and is useful when shooting video. Also having a Nikon DSLR the P7700 would have worked with my existing flash.

I have only just got the G15 and initial impressions are good. It is too early to say whether the G15 is a keeper. Possibly the XZ2 may have been a better choice. That seems to be an even more overlooked camera than the P7700.

Click to expand...

Gimble said:

I recently replaced my P7100 and I looked at all the usual compact suspects including the P7700, G15, XZ2 and RX100. Price was not a factor for me as here in the UK they are all in a similar price range. After reading many reviews and seeing the cameras in the flesh I went for the G15.

The RX100 fell down for me in its lack of direct controls and just feeling too small for me to grip comfortably. I generally shoot around 50 to 100mm and at this zoom the sensor advantage of the RX100 had to be weighed against the faster lens of the G15/P7700/XZ2. The XZ2 may be good but I couldn't get to see one in a shop. (It doesn't help that the UKs biggest camera chain has just closed down.)

My main reasons for going for the G15 over the P7700 were AF performance and JPEG colour. The P7700 may not be that slow but the G15 feels faster. I missed some shots of the children due to the AF performance on my P7100 - especially indoors. After trying one of the Sony compacts I saw that AF performance on a compact can be fast enough for moving subjects like children.

Many of the JPEGs that I have seen of the P7700 look very flat to me - for example the shot of Lars in the dpreview group test. This may be something that I can fix in PP but as I primarily use JPEGs this isn't something that I have much inclination to do or the skill to achieve. Overall the JPEGs of the G15 look far more attractive to me than thos of the P7700 - even if they may not be quite as realistic. The XZ2 has the best JPEGs that I have seen.

The P7700 and the XZ2 both seem to produce slightly sharper shots than the G15. However, I can only really see much of a difference when pixel peeping at 100%. (As in the examples in this thread.) So this is not a significant difference to me.

The loss of the viewfinder doesn't bother me - so was not a factor for me.

The articulating screen of the P7700 (and XZ2) is a slight advantage and is useful when shooting video. Also having a Nikon DSLR the P7700 would have worked with my existing flash.

I have only just got the G15 and initial impressions are good. It is too early to say whether the G15 is a keeper. Possibly the XZ2 may have been a better choice. That seems to be an even more overlooked camera than the P7700.

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Shotcents said:

Shotcents wrote:

I agree with the G15 owner's comments.

The G15 does not just "feel" faster. It IS faster and the AF is most of what's making that work.

Yes, the Canon's JPEG engine is doing more with the files. This is typical of Canon and if you don't plan to get more from the files and stick with JPEG the Canon may be a better pick.

But if you want files that are available for more user control, the Nikon is absolutely superior even in RAW. In this respect the P7700 does act more like a Nikon DSLR, allowing the shooter to carefully regulate the image in post. You can also use picture controls to get more dynamic shots out of camera with the P7700, but this defeats the point. I was able to get a bit more done with the P7700 RAW files.

Both cameras have their strengths. After using both I decided that the P7700 was a stronger companion to my DSLRs than the G15, but I would not have been unhappy with he Canon. They're both very good. Anyone can make a case for the 200mm reach of the Nikon or the faster AF of the Canon. There's no knockout winner here, both are really nice!

Robert

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Altruisto said:

Altruisto wrote:

Altruisto said:

Shotcents wrote:

I agree with the G15 owner's comments.

The G15 does not just "feel" faster. It IS faster and the AF is most of what's making that work.

Yes, the Canon's JPEG engine is doing more with the files. This is typical of Canon and if you don't plan to get more from the files and stick with JPEG the Canon may be a better pick.

But if you want files that are available for more user control, the Nikon is absolutely superior even in RAW. In this respect the P7700 does act more like a Nikon DSLR, allowing the shooter to carefully regulate the image in post. You can also use picture controls to get more dynamic shots out of camera with the P7700, but this defeats the point. I was able to get a bit more done with the P7700 RAW files.

Both cameras have their strengths. After using both I decided that the P7700 was a stronger companion to my DSLRs than the G15, but I would not have been unhappy with he Canon. They're both very good. Anyone can make a case for the 200mm reach of the Nikon or the faster AF of the Canon. There's no knockout winner here, both are really nice!

Robert

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G15 is not that faster, it's only in low light that the gap widens.

G15 performance (lesnumeriques.com)

P7700 performance

The P7700 is snappier in start-up, it's a toss-up for daytime, and G15 is quicker to focus in low-light. So it's not that in favour of Canon model.

I used both side by side, the only time I felt G15 is snappier was in RAW burst mode, P7700 freezes, but not G15.

--
Photography has to remain a pleasure, keep PP minimal!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/altruisto/
https://twitter.com/#!/tarekmrad
http://www.facebook.com/tarekmradrtci
owning a Nikon D90, and a Nikon J1

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Altruisto said:

Altruisto wrote:

Many people are claiming in the forum that in Dpreview studio samples, G15 is better than P7700, and that Imaging-Resource are not rigorous in their technic. But nothing can beat field samples. So I'm going to use the wide angle shots provided by Dpreview themselves in the Enthusiast zoom compact round-up to compare P7700 to G15. You're going to be shocked.

Near the center of the frame


P7700 left, G15 right

From the lower right corner


P7700 left- G15 right

From the left border of the frame.


P7700 left- G15 right

The lens in P7700 is a lot more even at wide angle.

--
Photography has to remain a pleasure, keep PP minimal!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/altruisto/
https://twitter.com/#!/tarekmrad
http://www.facebook.com/tarekmradrtci
owning a Nikon D90, and a Nikon J1

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Shotcents said:

Shotcents wrote:

Shotcents said:

Altruisto wrote:

Shotcents said:

Shotcents wrote:

I agree with the G15 owner's comments.

The G15 does not just "feel" faster. It IS faster and the AF is most of what's making that work.

Yes, the Canon's JPEG engine is doing more with the files. This is typical of Canon and if you don't plan to get more from the files and stick with JPEG the Canon may be a better pick.

But if you want files that are available for more user control, the Nikon is absolutely superior even in RAW. In this respect the P7700 does act more like a Nikon DSLR, allowing the shooter to carefully regulate the image in post. You can also use picture controls to get more dynamic shots out of camera with the P7700, but this defeats the point. I was able to get a bit more done with the P7700 RAW files.

Both cameras have their strengths. After using both I decided that the P7700 was a stronger companion to my DSLRs than the G15, but I would not have been unhappy with he Canon. They're both very good. Anyone can make a case for the 200mm reach of the Nikon or the faster AF of the Canon. There's no knockout winner here, both are really nice!

Robert

Click to expand...

G15 is not that faster, it's only in low light that the gap widens.

G15 performance (lesnumeriques.com)

P7700 performance

The P7700 is snappier in start-up, it's a toss-up for daytime, and G15 is quicker to focus in low-light. So it's not that in favour of Canon model.

I used both side by side, the only time I felt G15 is snappier was in RAW burst mode, P7700 freezes, but not G15.

--
Photography has to remain a pleasure, keep PP minimal!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/altruisto/
https://twitter.com/#!/tarekmrad
http://www.facebook.com/tarekmradrtci
owning a Nikon D90, and a Nikon J1

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The differences in AF are significant, on par with what I've experienced. I also had both cameras side-by-side. I chose the P7700, but indoors the G15 was ALWAYS quicker to acquire focus. That momentary hunt with the P7700 can cost a shot. As you can see by the graph the P7700 can take 75% longer to acquire focus. It's slower in every respect in regard to AF. Since others have reported this, we know that it's easily perceptible.

While the numbers you show above may look small, they are quite significant for AF times. In low light the G15, as you noted, does even better with AF.

That said, I think the P7700 focuses fine. But it is NOT class leading. I believe it's important to remain realistic about what the P7700 excels at and what it does worse so as not to mislead buyers.

Robert

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Nikonworks said:

Nikonworks wrote:

Thank you for the info and a documented clarification of the G15 vs P7700 AF.

Based on your post the AF of the G15 vs the P7700 is not as dramatically different as others have suggested here.

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Nikonworks said:

Nikonworks wrote:

If one is happy with a Canon, fine, go tell the Canon Forum.

His comments here in the Coolpix Forum make him appear a bit trollish.

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