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Metabones Speed Booster - Vignetting with Tele-Lenses

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Cane said:
Cane wrote:

If you read these forums enough, you'd think the photography world revolved around trying to attach telescopes to cameras. Not everything is meant to improve taking bird pics from a football field length away.
Click to expand...
You are quite right of course, but this post on the original topic is about ....... "Vignetting with Tele-Lenses"

This topic has saved me money and therefor for me, its a great post and also an interesting one. As far as the telescopes go, I use nothing under 300mm, so for those of us that do, its a darn good post. Yes I do need a good shot revolved around an image a football field length away. Hence the title of this thread is perfect.

My world revolves around it, yours might not :-) This is about Vignetting with Tele-Lenses this thread.

All the best.

Danny.
 
Last edited:
jpr2 said:
jpr2 wrote:
jpr2 said:
khaw wrote:

FW? N7?

The Exif data can be displayed for the FF images on winklers.smugmug.com.
Click to expand...
the info about FW (firmware) installed on N7 (Nex-7) is present in intact EXIF, alas SmugMug display of EXIFs from your shots doesn't contain this information :(

I've already linked earlier a long thread abt. the effects of FW 1.01 vs. FW 1.0 on color casts present in N7's RAWs

jpr2

-- ~

street candids (non-interactive): http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/ music and dance: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/ B&W: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/ wildlife & macro: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/ interactive street: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/ Comments and critique are always welcome!


~
Click to expand...
Yes but I'm not sure if that applies to MF legacy lenses though, or does it ??. I can't imagine firmware doing anything for my Canon's ??. Maybe I'm wrong.

All the best.

Danny.
 
nzmacro said:
nzmacro wrote:
nzmacro said:
jpr2 wrote:
nzmacro said:
khaw wrote:

FW? N7?

The Exif data can be displayed for the FF images on winklers.smugmug.com.
Click to expand...
the info about FW (firmware) installed on N7 (Nex-7) is present in intact EXIF, alas SmugMug display of EXIFs from your shots doesn't contain this information :(

I've already linked earlier a long thread abt. the effects of FW 1.01 vs. FW 1.0 on color casts present in N7's RAWs

jpr2
Click to expand...
Yes but I'm not sure if that applies to MF legacy lenses though, or does it ??. I can't imagine firmware doing anything for my Canon's ??. Maybe I'm wrong.

All the best.

Danny.
Click to expand...
for FD lenses, you are using "dumb" adapters, but Metabones Smart adapters uses electronic protocols to communicate with a camera, and thus involve some in-camera correction. That was discussed in the thread, Quercy linked above and it could be related to the SB too.

But rest assured that Sony does apply lot of corrections in the RAWs, so even your MF legacy lenses output can differ among firmware versions.
 
Last edited:
Hi jpr2,

Many thanks for the pointer. Indeed my NEX-7 has firmware version 1.01.

Is the problem only in RAW files or also in OOC JPGs? I have saved both files.

Here is the OOC JPG for f=4

24dac71fb3bb400987e407b1bfefe3e8.jpg


I also have an NEX-5N that I could use for these tests.

Is there a known issue with that camera?

Thanks again. With best regards, K-H.








jpr2 said:
jpr2 wrote:
jpr2 said:
khaw wrote:

FW? N7?

The Exif data can be displayed for the FF images on winklers.smugmug.com.
Click to expand...
the info about FW (firmware) installed on N7 (Nex-7) is present in intact EXIF, alas SmugMug display of EXIFs from your shots doesn't contain this information :(

I've already linked earlier a long thread abt. the effects of FW 1.01 vs. FW 1.0 on color casts present in N7's RAWs

jpr2

--
~

street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
Click to expand...
 
nzmacro said:
nzmacro wrote:
nzmacro said:
jpr2 wrote:

the info about FW (firmware) installed on N7 (Nex-7) is present in intact EXIF, alas SmugMug display of EXIFs from your shots doesn't contain this information :(

I've already linked earlier a long thread abt. the effects of FW 1.01 vs. FW 1.0 on color casts present in N7's RAWs
Click to expand...
Yes but I'm not sure if that applies to MF legacy lenses though, or does it ??. I can't imagine firmware doing anything for my Canon's ??. Maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
...described in that thread, are that FW 1.01 does apply an uniform offset biasing towards cyan (a raw guesstimate indicates something between C-0.75 to C-1.5, but offsets for AWB on N7 can be done only in full clicks, so this is very far from being precise = many more experiments should be done before a complete picture will emerge). This offset - which was clearly implemented on top of FW 1.0 as a stop-gap measure by Sony, to circumvent the infamous magenta cast problem - seems to be present in FW 1.01 when camera detects a lens presence. Which is the case for Canon EF lenses mounted through Conurus smart adapters (to which the SB also belongs). For other legacy lenses the only way to use them is through dumb adapters, without electronic contacts. And this is also the case of the SB in Leitz-R mount (although some R-lenses are ROM'ed and do have contacts, but only to report the type of the lens to R-cameras, and sometimes also the position of focusing ring to convey subject's distance info).

Therefore I've found it really surprising that the image of K-H from the Tele-Elmar 135/4:

a magenta cast in the center? with cyan cast in corners??

a magenta cast in the center? with cyan cast in corners??

seems to contain a MC in the center but CC in the corners - this is very, very odd :( . But this exactly the type of effects we've observed both in EF lenses on N7, as well as in images from the SEL 10-18 (again on N7).

Why I think it is pertaining? Because there is also an additional effect from various amounts of vignetting which further complicates an overall picture = for a long time it was dubbed "magenta corners", but IMO the explanation is different: non-uniformities in lighting, coupled with an uniform color tints, demonstrate themselves jointly as localized color casts and the "magenta corners" are just most common phenomenon observed due to prevalence of vignetting with WA/UWA lenses (now replaced quite often by the "cyan corners" effect).

K-H images show the effect for much, much longer lenses, which piqued my curiosity very much indeed = it seems like the Leitz-R SB is a 1/2-dumb adapter, telling the FW that the lens is present, yet not allowing Av control (not physically possible with R-lenses);

jpr2

--
~

street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
 
Last edited:
verybiglebowski said:
verybiglebowski wrote:
verybiglebowski said:
nzmacro wrote:
verybiglebowski said:
jpr2 wrote:
verybiglebowski said:
khaw wrote:

FW? N7?

The Exif data can be displayed for the FF images on winklers.smugmug.com.
Click to expand...
the info about FW (firmware) installed on N7 (Nex-7) is present in intact EXIF, alas SmugMug display of EXIFs from your shots doesn't contain this information :(

I've already linked earlier a long thread abt. the effects of FW 1.01 vs. FW 1.0 on color casts present in N7's RAWs

jpr2
Click to expand...
Yes but I'm not sure if that applies to MF legacy lenses though, or does it ??. I can't imagine firmware doing anything for my Canon's ??. Maybe I'm wrong.

All the best.

Danny.
Click to expand...
for FD lenses, you are using "dumb" adapters, but Metabones Smart adapters uses electronic protocols to communicate with a camera, and thus involve some in-camera correction. That was discussed in the thread, Quercy linked above and it could be related to the SB too.

But rest assured that Sony does apply lot of corrections in the RAWs, so even your MF legacy lenses output can differ among firmware versions.
Click to expand...
 
'Scuse me for butting in, but..







has anyone noticed an increase in focus breathing/changes in magnification with the adapter?
 
There are no electronic contacts on my metabones speed booster.

I decided to take pictures of the screen as one gets extremely strong moiré patterns in the viewfinder or the LCD panel when in focus. So, you really have to look at the full frame images at 100% to avoid the moiré patterns as every individual pixel of the monitor is clearly visible. At 100% view there are no color shifts.
 
khaw said:
khaw wrote:

There are no electronic contacts on my metabones speed booster.

I decided to take pictures of the screen as one gets extremely strong moiré patterns in the viewfinder or the LCD panel when in focus. So, you really have to look at the full frame images at 100% to avoid the moiré patterns as every individual pixel of the monitor is clearly visible. At 100% view there are no color shifts.
Click to expand...
the magenta cast in the center is clearly visible in the 100% view of the TeleElmar 135/4 @f/4, and still discernible at f/5.6 (while the corners in the former are a bit cyan[ish]); perhaps this might have something to do with monitor calibration? Mine is freshly calibrated with the SpyderExpress ver. 3 colorimeter (and btw. I do not see color casts at f/8-f/22 on that lens - which means some difference is there objectively). Perhaps your screen might be set a bit too bright/contrasty??


jpr2
 
The no color shifts statement applied only to the D800E images.

I agree there are some shifts in some of the images with the Speed Booster.
 
Cane said:
Cane wrote:

If you read these forums enough, you'd think the photography world revolved around trying to attach telescopes to cameras. Not everything is meant to improve taking bird pics from a football field length away.
Click to expand...



I agree to an extent, this is valuable information for someone who perhaps would rather use a longer lens with more isolation (which I'd imagine would make for more difficulties while birding, if anything).

That said, my personal interest (for the OP) is to see if they can replicate some of the tests with wide to long portrait lenses, as in 24-105mm's with it.

I'm optimistic to have a few lenses I like quite a bit be able to serve double-duty. :)
 
Hi Mark,
I have only Leica M lenses and Nikkor lenses with wide angles.
The former are not supported by any Speed Booster model.
The latter require a different Speed Booster that isn't available yet.
In principle one could use the Canon version of the Speed Booster and adapt to Nikkor lenses.
As I don't have any Canon lenses I don't want to do that.

Sorry.

I also have a Leitz Elmar 65/3.5 with Visoflex mount.
However, it came back from a recent CLA decentered and needs to be repaired first.

Best, K-H.

Mark_McD said:
Mark_McD wrote:
Mark_McD said:
Cane wrote:

If you read these forums enough, you'd think the photography world revolved around trying to attach telescopes to cameras. Not everything is meant to improve taking bird pics from a football field length away.
Click to expand...
I agree to an extent, this is valuable information for someone who perhaps would rather use a longer lens with more isolation (which I'd imagine would make for more difficulties while birding, if anything).

That said, my personal interest (for the OP) is to see if they can replicate some of the tests with wide to long portrait lenses, as in 24-105mm's with it.

I'm optimistic to have a few lenses I like quite a bit be able to serve double-duty. :)
Click to expand...
 
khaw said:
khaw wrote:

Hi Mark,
I have only Leica M lenses and Nikkor lenses with wide angles.
Click to expand...
The former are not supported by any Speed Booster model.
The latter require a different Speed Booster that isn't available yet.
In principle one could use the Canon version of the Speed Booster and adapt to Nikkor lenses.
As I don't have any Canon lenses I don't want to do that.

Sorry.

I also have a Leitz Elmar 65/3.5 with Visoflex mount.
However, it came back from a recent CLA decentered and needs to be repaired first.

Best, K-H.
khaw said:
Mark_McD wrote:
khaw said:
Cane wrote:

If you read these forums enough, you'd think the photography world revolved around trying to attach telescopes to cameras. Not everything is meant to improve taking bird pics from a football field length away.
Click to expand...
I agree to an extent, this is valuable information for someone who perhaps would rather use a longer lens with more isolation (which I'd imagine would make for more difficulties while birding, if anything).

That said, my personal interest (for the OP) is to see if they can replicate some of the tests with wide to long portrait lenses, as in 24-105mm's with it.

I'm optimistic to have a few lenses I like quite a bit be able to serve double-duty. :)
Click to expand...
 
I got mine after work from fedex facility. AF works with Canon EF 28-135mm and EF 70-300mm IS lenses though 28-135 listed as not af lens. I am surprised with Canon 70-300mm as it is not too front heavy and focused in low light at 300mm showing as f/4 @ 1/15sec shot with IS.

Other lenses Sigma 24-60mm f/2.8, Sigma 50mm f/1.4, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 100mm f/2 and Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro are working as manual lenses. Sigma 24-60mm shows more vignetting at 24mm with nex 6 compared to Canon 5d but I haven't downloaded the files for comparison. Canon 50mm 1.8 and M42 lenses matched better with their smaller sizes. However you have to be careful with lenses that goes inside the adapter. OM lenses has a back piece and I couldn't place Oly 21mm inside the adapter.


This is my first night quick testing. I see also posting at fm that lensrental will post their tests in their blog.
 
Serhan2 said:
Serhan2 wrote:

The cheapest version. L lens is also listed as working with the normal ef adapter
Click to expand...
that is very interesting - due to placement of the focusing ring the non-L 70-300 is pretty awkward to operate manually for focusing, esp. at the long end;

this means that the only DO version is a big unknown with the Conurus type of smart EF adapters :) - I'm intrigued with that one as a possible street walk-around, since it is so short barreled at 70mm :)

jpr2


PS thanks for the PM info!
 
jpr2 said:
jpr2 wrote:

Why I think it is pertaining? Because there is also an additional effect from various amounts of vignetting which further complicates an overall picture = for a long time it was dubbed "magenta corners", but IMO the explanation is different: non-uniformities in lighting, coupled with an uniform color tints, demonstrate themselves jointly as localized color casts and the "magenta corners" are just most common phenomenon observed due to prevalence of vignetting with WA/UWA lenses (now replaced quite often by the "cyan corners" effect).
Click to expand...
This is at least partly correct. Basically, it is very difficult to maintain a constant color as brightness changes using an RGB coding of the image. Small errors, on the order of a few percent, can easily be nothing more than roundoff error accumulated by piecewise-linear integer formulations of non-linear colorspace and white balance conversions. Linearly scaling directly in RGB space can cause perceptual color shifts that are significantly larger than that.

This is why people talk about Lab colorspaces, etc., and why multispectral imaging is really needed to deal well with metamerism.
 
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