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X20 Sensor, This is News

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rattymouse

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Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.

"Originally developed by FUJIFILM for the X20, the 2/3-inch X-Trans CMOS II sensor inherits the same architecture and features of the high performance sensor found in the acclaimed X-Pro1 flagship model. Adoption of BSI (backside illumination) technology enables the successful incorporation of phase detection pixels into the array without affecting sensitivity performance- the key to X20's high-speed AF."
 
Danielepaolo said:
Danielepaolo wrote:
Danielepaolo said:
rattymouse wrote:

Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.

Adoption of BSI (backside illumination) technology........
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BSI? That scares me after my dabble with the HS10. I am guessing though you post this news as a good thing. Just saying
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BSI has spread throughout the industry so it can't be considered a failure. I dont know how applicable your HS10 experience is as that sensor was pinhead in size.
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.
Click to expand...
I don't really see what the 'news' is here - even the X10's 'EXR' sensor was 'BSI-CMOS'.
Member said:
"Originally developed by FUJIFILM for the X20, the 2/3-inch X-Trans CMOS II sensor inherits the same architecture and features of the high performance sensor found in the acclaimed X-Pro1 flagship model. Adoption of BSI (backside illumination) technology enables the successful incorporation of phase detection pixels into the array without affecting sensitivity performance- the key to X20's high-speed AF."
Click to expand...
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.

"Originally developed by FUJIFILM for the X20, the 2/3-inch X-Trans CMOS II sensor inherits the same architecture and features of the high performance sensor found in the acclaimed X-Pro1 flagship model. Adoption of BSI (backside illumination) technology enables the successful incorporation of phase detection pixels into the array without affecting sensitivity performance- the key to X20's high-speed AF."
Click to expand...
Yawn... REALLY!

Paul.
 
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Mark H said:
Mark H wrote:
Mark H said:
rattymouse wrote:

Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.
Click to expand...
I don't really see what the 'news' is here - even the X10's 'EXR' sensor was 'BSI-CMOS'.
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That is incorrect. While it was CMOS, it was not of a BSI design.

No mention ANYWHERE in any FUJIFILM document to attest to it being BSI. And they always mention that in the cameras that do have BSI sensors.

Loading…

www.fujifilm.com


Mark H said:
Mark H said:
"Originally developed by FUJIFILM for the X20, the 2/3-inch X-Trans CMOS II sensor inherits the same architecture and features of the high performance sensor found in the acclaimed X-Pro1 flagship model. Adoption of BSI (backside illumination) technology enables the successful incorporation of phase detection pixels into the array without affecting sensitivity performance- the key to X20's high-speed AF."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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Exactly. I remember in the X10 literature Fujifilm stressed using a FSI sensor to allow for native ISO 100 support. Predictably, the X20 has a base ISO of 200 with its BSI sensor.
 
My backyard friend and I are both a bit squirrelly about all of this news, at the end of the first CES day.

9f0991c107d34d19ac473fdada1433bf.jpg
 
Really? This is old news? It was jusy announced officially. Or is thisjust another one of your negative about anything Fuji posts.





PAUL TILL said:
PAUL TILL wrote:
PAUL TILL said:
rattymouse wrote:

Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.

"Originally developed by FUJIFILM for the X20, the 2/3-inch X-Trans CMOS II sensor inherits the same architecture and features of the high performance sensor found in the acclaimed X-Pro1 flagship model. Adoption of BSI (backside illumination) technology enables the successful incorporation of phase detection pixels into the array without affecting sensitivity performance- the key to X20's high-speed AF."
Click to expand...
Yawn... REALLY!

Paul.
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The Davinator said:
Dave Luttmann wrote:

Really? This is old news? It was jusy announced officially. Or is this just another one of your negative about anything Fuji posts.
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PAUL and ratty are permanently at war. Some of the exchanges leave my ears burning. ratty fires the most shots, and tends to fire first.

Paul is not negative about the X-S1.

ratty is not positive about anything Fuji since the S5 Pro.

Who cares?
 
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Member said:
rattymouse wrote:
Member said:
Mark H wrote:
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.
Click to expand...
I don't really see what the 'news' is here - even the X10's 'EXR' sensor was 'BSI-CMOS'.
Click to expand...
That is incorrect. While it was CMOS, it was not of a BSI design.

No mention ANYWHERE in any FUJIFILM document to attest to it being BSI. And they always mention that in the cameras that do have BSI sensors.

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x10/features/page_02.html
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You might be right - although, at the bottom of that same 'x10_features_page_02', there is a link to... Learn about EXR CMOS ...which does actually describe 'BSI CMOS Technology' - although admittedly the article's title refers to '16 Megapixel Sensor' (whereas the X10 sensor is only 12MP).
 
DDWD10 said:
DDWD10 wrote:

Exactly. I remember in the X10 literature Fujifilm stressed using a FSI sensor to allow for native ISO 100 support. Predictably, the X20 has a base ISO of 200 with its BSI sensor.
Click to expand...

According to the currently listed Fuji's X20 Specifications , the X20's lowest ISO is ISO-100 (just the same as the X10).
 
Ratty,

Yes this is the first time I heard about the BSI implementation. I do not believe the original X10 sensor was BSI.

The new sensor should deliver better low light performance, and better image quality overall, but I have yet to see any sample shots from the X20.

Have you seen any?

Last year I showed my X10 to a co-worker but I could not recommend it to him because of the sensor issues. Hopefully these issues are now a thing of the past with the new X-trans BSI sensor, but the sample shots should tell the tale.

I know the X-trans sensor on my X-E1 is delivering some excellent image quality for me. A workable X-20 implementation would really be something better, in terms of portability and ease of use, even if image quality might not quite measure up to the X-E1. Hopefully in daylight conditions at low ISO it will be hard to tell the two of them apart. Now that is something to hope for!

Also, I wonder if a larger BSI sensor has ever been made by anyone. Do you know the answer to this?
 
Tom, take a look at these:

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fujifilm-x.com

Cheers

Luego
 
The specs are doubtful, since lowest ISO used is 200 not 100 in these shots:

Loading…

fujifilm-x.com

Perhaps extended ISO100 is more likely.

We'll see next month...

Cheers

Luego
 
Luego said:
Luego wrote:

The specs are doubtful, since lowest ISO used is 200 not 100 in these shots:

http://fujifilm-x.com/x20/de/gallery/

Perhaps extended ISO100 is more likely.

We'll see next month...

Cheers

Luego
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That's an interesting observation - yes, I guess only time will tell.

It would certainly seem to be something of an oddity - in that, at ISO200, the exposure is obviously only getting 50% of the light of an ISO100 exposure.

Looking at it simplistically, therefore one might expect the image signal's shot noise to be some 40% higher - which really doesn't seem like a good starting point for what is still a relatively small sensor.

Arguably the 'quantum efficiency' (efficiency of photon capture) might be better than the previous sensor - but it couldn't possibly be enough to compensate (i.e. would need to be 100% better).

One possible theory/explanation may very well be...

In the absence of the previous sensor's 'EXR-DR' dynamic range capability, it may have been deemed more desirable/necessary to lower the average sensor exposure level (by increasing base ISO) in order to provide an increased proportion of highlight headroom.
 
Member said:
rattymouse wrote:

Have not heard anyone here mention that the new sensor was of a BSI design.

"Originally developed by FUJIFILM for the X20, the 2/3-inch X-Trans CMOS II sensor inherits the same architecture and features of the high performance sensor found in the acclaimed X-Pro1 flagship model. Adoption of BSI (backside illumination) technology enables the successful incorporation of phase detection pixels into the array without affecting sensitivity performance- the key to X20's high-speed AF."
Click to expand...
 
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Yeah I too was hoping for the 24-120 F1.8-2.8 lens. Wider, longer and faster.

Whats with PDAF?
 
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