My D800 is a Lemon

Luckyrice

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I have been noticing things lately on my D800 that are akin to the notorious defective batches in the early release. I bought mine in August 2012. Well, the straw that broke the camel's back is the LiveView. It's completely unusable zoomed in on all of my 7 lenses, which are the good lenses like the 50mm 1.4D, the 17mm-35mm 2.8 EF, the 85mm 1.8G, etc. It's extremely noisy and pixelated and jaggedy. They all have this issue on the camera and it's obviously the camera now that I think about it. How did I find out about this? I started taking landscape photos through LiveView on my trip to the Philippines and boom, a serious WTH moment when I tried fine-tuning my images. I thought it was just how it should be and then realized while sleeping it must be a defect (I tend to be in denial that I could have a bad camera worth $3000).

So, I have sent Nikon an email. This is how I wrote it. Excuse the typos as it was early in the morning:

Hello, I purchased my D800 brand new from Murphy's Camera and have not drop or damaged my camera which I handle meticulously and keep in a case. I have been usually using my camera through the viewfinder, until I started taking landscape photos using live view. The live view when zoomed in all the way to fine-tune focus is completely unusable and unfocusable. It is extremely noisy. I can document this issue on video and send it to you if you would like. Also when setting the WB on my camera is does not set the custom white balance when I hold the WB button etc. and the screen has a green tint. I have the latest firmware. I used these instructions for PRE Custom WB:

1.) Ensure your card or other neutral object is in the same sort of light as your subject. Changing the angle of the object often will favor one kind of a light or another in mixed light, which will greatly affect your result.

2.) Hold WB and spin the rear dial to get to PRE, and spin the front dial to select which of the four memories (d-1, d-2, d-3 or d-4) you wish to set.

3.) Release WB.

4.) Press and hold WB again for a few seconds.

5.) PRE starts to blink. (This does not happen, ever)

i understand that these are all known issues, atleast on the forums. Look, I paid $3000 plus dollars for this camera and bought a bunch of your lenses too as this was my first move to FX. This problem is found throughout all 7 lenses and I darn sure it isn't my lenses. I need to have this resolved without incurring cost to me. I highly regard your company as one of integrity and standing by one of your flagship product should be one.

However, right now I am in the Philippines and will not be arriving back in the states until the 29th of January. I do not believe I should incur extra costs to have a new camera sent to me and this particular camera refurbished and for you to do what you will with it. I do not want my camera refurbished and sent back to me. I apologize if I sound frustrated, I am because I was very excited to take landscape photos on my trip here to the philippines using liveview and have been getting nothing but unfocused photos with it using liveview.

Please reply as soon as you possibly can. Thank you.

---------End-------

I will let you all know how Nikon deals with this situation. I am very sad that I have to go through this hassle. I am fairly disappointed.
 
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I notice you just joined the forum and this is your first post. Welcome and I wish you luck.
 
The tone of your letter will not get you anywhere with Nikon or any company. Nikon Service department will want to see your camera first for evoluation. Good luck. Please let us know what was Nikon's response.



Sam
 
Welcome to the forum. It's too bad you can't enjoy your camera as you like. Here are some observations:
  • This is the first time I read of this problem with LV unless you're looking at a subject in low light as in this video . In which case your camera is working as Nikon designed it and there is no point sending it to servicing. The usual complain about LV used as focusing aid is that it skips one line out of 2 at 100% magnification. but this is noticeable only when focusing on fine print like the lettering on the side of a cereal box (there is a video on the web showing just this) but IMO is not an issue for landscapes.

  • Nikon's policy is that the user pays for shipping to a Nikon service center. That is clearly explained in their warranty. Seeing it from Nikon's point of view: it's not their responsability if you notice an issue when travelling far abroad. It would be nice if Nikon helps you out, but they're not obligated too and I wouldn't count on it.


Good luck and let us know how the repair goes.
 
I am awaiting a D800 as I type this - from what I gather, any D800 LiveView magnification over 100% is an interlaced feed from the sensor (meaning every other line is skipped) - with the resulting atrocious display.

Also, IIRC the Live Feed output reflects the actual aperture setting with no override available (which I suppose is good for pre-shot verification but poor for focus control). Google "D800 Live View problem" - tons of sites complaining about this. My friends 5D Mark III Live View performs orders of magnitude better than the D800's. :-(

I am hoping a firmware update is made available to fix this .....
 
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5 months to figure out how live view works and you think Nikon is to blame?? I would recommend looking in the mirror.

You also made a pretty basic error in your letter by not telling Nikon specifically what you want them to do to resolve the issue. It seems like you are asking them to fix your live view problem which is kind of funny if you think about... but if you're able to get that done, please let the other D800 owners know :-) .
 
Your description of the LV issue sounds normal. This is what happens when you zoom in passed 100%. I'm not sure why LV allows you to zoom in this far. I suppose a FW update that limits LV zoom to 100% would fix the issue, but it sounds like your camera is acting normally.

As for the WB issue, there is definitely something wrong if you are following the correct procedure. You should be able to hold the WB while selecting PRE and the bank, then release and hold again and it will blink. If it is not doing so, this would be some sort of software glitch. It couldn't be a hardware issue, because you are able to hold the button down to select the WB and bank.

My suggestion would be to do a hard reset of the camera by pressing and holding both the QUAL and bracketing button. These buttons both have a small green dot on them. You could also try resetting your shooting menu before you try the hard reset.

But as far as dealing with Nikon, I think you should relax. You're on vacation, and you at least have a camera that can take photos. Use it to the best of its ability and deal with Nikon when you get home.
 
Sorry, this is not in direct response to Joe. It's cumulative of what I just read.

I really appreciate your comments. I'm sure I sound pretty unhappy in my letter. But I am hardly alone in this. Btw, this does not just happy at max zoom. It happens even before half max zoom. It only gets much worse as your iso goes higher from 100 in exponential ways. How would you explain this exact thing this guy is talking about below. I understand that you find that this could be user error, but I am not the only one who has this issue. The canon 5d mark iii, can do the same thing and everything is in perfect focus in fine tuning edges. I have the same issue even in bright light. The reason I am unhappy about it is because Nikon shouldn't have had such quality issues on a $3000 camera. Usability issues are pretty bad. It's like buying a toyota and have the gas pedal get stuck. you know what I mean. You can't use it properly. I was trying to get my eye used to using the viewfinder and using my eye. Not everyone is accustomed to using liveview. It's not like I didn't use my camera. Autofocus is fine. This is a very specific problem. The Mark 3 does not suffer this type of LCD issue. read it for yourself.

http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/05/fail-nikon-d800-live-view-vs-canon-5d.html
 
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Luckyrice wrote:



So, I have sent Nikon an email. This is how I wrote it. Excuse the typos as it was early in the morning:

Hello, I purchased my D800 brand new from Murphy's Camera ...

... I do not believe I should incur extra costs to have a new camera sent to me and this particular camera refurbished and for you to do what you will with it. I do not want my camera refurbished and sent back to me.


This is a very interesting demand from Nikon to send you a new D800 since you don't want your camera to be repaired. Interesting indeed. Has Nikon responded yet? Please keep us informed.



Sam
 
Luckyrice wrote:

Sorry, this is not in direct response to Joe. It's cumulative of what I just read.

I really appreciate your comments. I'm sure I sound pretty unhappy in my letter. But I am hardly alone in this. Btw, this does not just happy at max zoom. It happens even before half max zoom. It only gets much worse as your iso goes higher from 100 in exponential ways. How would you explain this exact thing this guy is talking about below. I understand that you find that this could be user error, but I am not the only one who has this issue. The canon 5d mark iii, can do the same thing and everything is in perfect focus in fine tuning edges. I have the same issue even in bright light. The reason I am unhappy about it is because Nikon shouldn't have had such quality issues on a $3000 camera.
Yes, Nikon failed with List View on the D800 and D800E. However, they are all that way so Nikon would not and could not send you a D800 with this issue fixed. Your only remedy is to sell the D800 and buy a Canon.
Usability issues are pretty bad. It's like buying a toyota and have the gas pedal get stuck.
No it's not. Stuck gas pedals kill people. Poor quality Live View is an annoyance.
you know what I mean. You can't use it properly. I was trying to get my eye used to using the viewfinder and using my eye. Not everyone is accustomed to using liveview. It's not like I didn't use my camera. Autofocus is fine. This is a very specific problem. The Mark 3 does not suffer this type of LCD issue. read it for yourself.

http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/05/fail-nikon-d800-live-view-vs-canon-5d.html
Having read that you should know that this is a problem with all D800 cameras. So, it is very odd that you would expect Nikon to send you a replacement with this issue fixed.

Regarding WB PRE: I can't tell from your list of steps whether or not you have a timing issue. You need to release the WB button for just a brief moment before pressing it again. Some other issues that could prevent it from working:
  • Preset manual white balance can not be measured during live view (pg. 45, 59)
  • while you are shooting an HDR photograph (pg. 176) or multiple exposure (pg. 195)
  • or whenRecord movies is selected for Custom Setting g4 (Assign shutter button, (pg. 324).
 
Yes I'm afraid that this is simply how the camera performs. There is nothing "wrong" with the poster's live view.

Unfortunately Canon's are MUCH better in terms of performance with LV. What kills me is that you can't use the screen or any live view when shooting tethered with Nikons at all, which is pretty much the only way I shoot. So I basically can't use live view, even though it would be insanely useful for me. Maybe if I write a letter to Nikon explaining this they will send me a new camera?
 
It is unfortunate you are having a negative experience with the ownership of your D800.

(My goodness this does sound like the first sentence in a reply from Nikon. It was not my intention to do so.)

Most of us who are not emotionally involved with your problem think that your letter to Nikon will not achieve much.

This forum can help you to clarify how the LV function of the D800 was intended to work. It can also help you finding work arounds of any items that do not work as you expected. You can then try these and decide if you can live with it the way it is on a long term basis or not.

From what you describe it appears that all D800s work that way, and most people think it is not very good, but have been able to work with it by not zooming beyond 100%. Or not relying so much on LV at all. The implementation of LV is not a strong point of many Nikon DSLRs.

At the same time, if you thought that a particual behaviour of the LV function was critical to you, it might have been useful to check this out before you invested in your camera. I know: hind sight is an exact science ...

The notion that a particular camera should have certain features or exhibit some knd of specific behaviour purely on the basis that it cost $3000, is not a very compelling one. Price alone does not imply anything.

Technically it may be possible to improve the beaviour of LV. However, Nikon is not known for providing such upgrades. At the same time extreme market pressure and a better competition may force them to release such an upgrade. It's not impossible, but I would not hold my breath.

It certailny would not hurt to let them know what you think, but your chances of having an effect would be much better if you wrote to them in a calm and objective manner clearly outlining what you are not happy about and how you think it would be much better.

As far as the WB function is concerned, I hope it gets sorted out pretty quickly, and you can ascertain if you have a faulty unit, or missed some of the steps to complete the procedure. If it is faulty, Nikon will repair it under their warranty terms.

You also mentioned that you have a green cast on the LCD. Some (but only a few) people have had similar observations, and as far as I can tell Nikon does have a custom fix for this, which will involve setting up your LCD out of original specifications. However it can be done under warranty.

Like most manufacturers, Nikon requires you to pay for postage of your equipment to them, and they will pay for return postage.

The D800 is not a simple camera. I do not know how experienced a photographer you are, and how much of that experience has been with Nikon DSLRs. It can take some time to master all aspects of its operation, and it might give you some further frustration before you get consistently rewarding results. In my opinion it will be worth the effort.

However, if you think that the shortcomings and unexpected behaviour you have experienced are a deal breaker to you, then you could sell your D800, and buy that Canon 5D3, which is also a very capable camera. You will incur a financial loss in the process, but in the long term it will be much better for all involved. You will be a happy user, and Nikon will be able to focus on customers who do want to experience a satisfying ownership of their products (whatever thay are).

I think it would also be beneficial if you thoroughly considered what exactly you expect from your rnew camera and try it before you buy it in order to prevent a similar disappointing experience.

I wish you good luck in your DSLR endeavours.
 
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Luckyrice wrote:
coronawithlime wrote:

I notice you just joined the forum and this is your first post. Welcome and I wish you luck.
I just happen to read it without having registered.
I don't thinks so. The LiveView issue/behavior is well known (and documented) since the first D800 hit the shelfs back in January. If you had periodically visited this forum you would have known about it.

It's your own fault. Sorry.
 
Excuse me, but how is this my fault? I fail to see the reasoning behind you blaming me...
 
Hi Luckyrice,

There is nothing wrong with your camera.

The LV magnification of the D800 works exactly the same on all D800 cameras.' so on yours, on mine and on all those having one too, including the E versions.


And although zooming in to 100% gives terrible blocked noisy images (it works the same as with digitally super zooming on cheap video cameras'/telephones etc., by digitally multiplying, enlarging the image)

The good point is that LV works now exactly as in OV. It takes your aperture settings into account.


Have to say that I'm absolutely not a LV stills photographer (always use OV), but I use LV a lot in video capturing, I have no complains about that.


Michel



Luckyrice wrote:

I have been noticing things lately on my D800 that are akin to the notorious defective batches in the early release. I bought mine in August 2012. Well, the straw that broke the camel's back is the LiveView. It's completely unusable zoomed in on all of my 7 lenses, which are the good lenses like the 50mm 1.4D, the 17mm-35mm 2.8 EF, the 85mm 1.8G, etc. It's extremely noisy and pixelated and jaggedy. They all have this issue on the camera and it's obviously the camera now that I think about it. How did I find out about this? I started taking landscape photos through LiveView on my trip to the Philippines and boom, a serious WTH moment when I tried fine-tuning my images. I thought it was just how it should be and then realized while sleeping it must be a defect (I tend to be in denial that I could have a bad camera worth $3000).

So, I have sent Nikon an email. This is how I wrote it. Excuse the typos as it was early in the morning:

Hello, I purchased my D800 brand new from Murphy's Camera and have not drop or damaged my camera which I handle meticulously and keep in a case. I have been usually using my camera through the viewfinder, until I started taking landscape photos using live view. The live view when zoomed in all the way to fine-tune focus is completely unusable and unfocusable. It is extremely noisy. I can document this issue on video and send it to you if you would like. Also when setting the WB on my camera is does not set the custom white balance when I hold the WB button etc. and the screen has a green tint. I have the latest firmware. I used these instructions for PRE Custom WB:

1.) Ensure your card or other neutral object is in the same sort of light as your subject. Changing the angle of the object often will favor one kind of a light or another in mixed light, which will greatly affect your result.

2.) Hold WB and spin the rear dial to get to PRE, and spin the front dial to select which of the four memories (d-1, d-2, d-3 or d-4) you wish to set.

3.) Release WB.

4.) Press and hold WB again for a few seconds.

5.) PRE starts to blink. (This does not happen, ever)

i understand that these are all known issues, atleast on the forums. Look, I paid $3000 plus dollars for this camera and bought a bunch of your lenses too as this was my first move to FX. This problem is found throughout all 7 lenses and I darn sure it isn't my lenses. I need to have this resolved without incurring cost to me. I highly regard your company as one of integrity and standing by one of your flagship product should be one.

However, right now I am in the Philippines and will not be arriving back in the states until the 29th of January. I do not believe I should incur extra costs to have a new camera sent to me and this particular camera refurbished and for you to do what you will with it. I do not want my camera refurbished and sent back to me. I apologize if I sound frustrated, I am because I was very excited to take landscape photos on my trip here to the philippines using liveview and have been getting nothing but unfocused photos with it using liveview.

Please reply as soon as you possibly can. Thank you.

---------End-------

I will let you all know how Nikon deals with this situation. I am very sad that I have to go through this hassle. I am fairly disappointed.
 
All user error.

At least Nikon customer service will get a good laugh out of it.
 
SEND THE THING BACK IT HAS A WARRANTY YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Malangbaba wrote:

The tone of your letter will not get you anywhere with Nikon or any company. Nikon Service department will want to see your camera first for evoluation. Good luck. Please let us know what was Nikon's response.

Sam
+1. Why did you wait 5 months? Why not just return the camera in during your 30 day period if you are not happy with how it operates? Plus Nikon will do nothing until they see your camera. And when they do look at it they will still do nothing as what you are describing is normal.
 
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