I looked through an optical viewfinder

Ken Johnes · Jan 2, 2013

Evildogofdoom said:
GalaxyIII wrote:

Many old dogs are reluctant to give up the past, when it comes to OVF vs. EVF. Some of those old dogs are Canon and Nikon, not to mention their fan base. Some of those very people are hanging on to their Beta Max recorder, 8 track tape player, and Laser disk recorder, and bell bottom pants, and disco music.

it´s unfortunately the Young Dogs and it´s fan base , who are in denial. kids who cant and dont want to learn the basics and experience the enjoyment which comes with the mechanical stuff and knowing how to work with it, all they want are stuff which does everything on it´s own, what fun is there in such a boring way of doing things.

by the way no wonder sony dosent have much to offer for working pros, mainly Studio based.

ever tried to work with a sony EVF in a studio ?, yes for snap shooters it makes the life easier cos they dont even need to know anything about aperture , s speed , lighting ratios,etc etc.

i can imagine you being proud of and enjoy the crappy quality MP3 signal coming out of your mobile phone. try the laser disk or a turntable for a change, it´s like going to good ol restaurant and order something which tastes like food instead of filling your throat with your fav Mcdonald , burger king stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile . some food for thought . enjoy.

hpeter · Jan 2, 2013

tbcass said:
tbcass wrote:

tbcass said:

WaltKnapp wrote:

tbcass said:

hpeter wrote:
You got that right. That was my feeling, I just couldn't put it in words. It felt a bit old-ish...

Click to expand...

And for me the EVF feels ineffective with anything that moves, which is a lot of my shooting. Feels like a P&S that can't keep up. OVF, on the other hand does keep up exactly with what I'm photographing, a critical and necessary value in a viewfinder.

Enjoy your static shooting

Click to expand...

I don't understand you Walt. Despite countless examples of people successfully shooting rapidly moving subjects, myself included, you keep repeating this fallacy. I have no trouble keeping up with the fastest moving subjects. I used OVFs for 40 years. I find following moving subjects just as easy with an EVF. There are reasons for preferring OVFs but tracking moving subjects for single to 3 FPS shooting is not among them.

underxposed59 · Jan 2, 2013

phiri said:
phiri wrote:

phiri said:

GalaxyIII wrote:

Many old dogs are reluctant to give up the past, when it comes to OVF vs. EVF. Some of those old dogs are Canon and Nikon, not to mention their fan base. Some of those very people are hanging on to their Beta Max recorder, 8 track tape player, and Laser disk recorder, and bell bottom pants, and disco music.

Click to expand...

I can tell you that there are many first time DSLR buyers today that are buying into the OVFs.

First time DSLR buyers are not buying into OVF's they are buying into CANIKON

Guess what? CaNikon only make OVF DSLR's

CaNikon is a duopoly in the DSLR market and first time buyers buy what the salesman/Ashton Kutcher pushes and their friends use.

Sonyshine · Jan 2, 2013

All taken easily with an EVF on an A55:

Greg Lovern · Jan 2, 2013

hpeter said:
hpeter wrote:

hpeter said:

I never had problems tracking fast moving subjects. I'm not a bird photographer, but I've shot an osprey carrying a fish, and was also able to follow a seagull when I tried, and it never occurred to me that it was difficult to track "becuase of the EVF".

Click to expand...

What about fast-moving subjects in dim light?

I know that someday we'll have EVFs that are just as good as OVFs for very fast-moving subjects in very dim light, but are we there now already?

Just curious.

Greg

EinsteinsGhost · Jan 2, 2013

Greg Lovern said:
Greg Lovern wrote:

Greg Lovern said:

hpeter wrote:

Greg Lovern said:

I never had problems tracking fast moving subjects. I'm not a bird photographer, but I've shot an osprey carrying a fish, and was also able to follow a seagull when I tried, and it never occurred to me that it was difficult to track "becuase of the EVF".

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

What about fast-moving subjects in dim light?

I know that someday we'll have EVFs that are just as good as OVFs for very fast-moving subjects in very dim light, but are we there now already?

Just curious.

Greg

El Profe · Jan 2, 2013

Some of the FILM cameras that I still have, although I no longer use them since they are film cameras are: Pentax 645, Nikon F2, Olympus OM1, Canon AE-1 Program, and Minolta 600si.

And I agree with you regarding either one of them have a nicer OVF view than the one in either one of my DSLR cameras. But still insist the Sony A900 (100% with 0.74x magnification) has the best OVF of any other DSLR except for the one in the Canon 1Ds (100% with 0.76x magnification) which cost much MUCH more.

Greg Lovern · Jan 2, 2013

EinsteinsGhost said:
EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

Greg Lovern wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

hpeter wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

I never had problems tracking fast moving subjects. I'm not a bird photographer, but I've shot an osprey carrying a fish, and was also able to follow a seagull when I tried, and it never occurred to me that it was difficult to track "becuase of the EVF".

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

What about fast-moving subjects in dim light?

I know that someday we'll have EVFs that are just as good as OVFs for very fast-moving subjects in very dim light, but are we there now already?

Just curious.

Greg

Click to expand...

Draek · Jan 2, 2013

Somewhat better than OVFs due to being able to boost brightness of the EVF, but still not quite there. The biggest problem is who the hell allows their children to run around in very dim light, if you can't see well with your naked eye you shouldn't be allowing small kids to run around carelessly.

tbcass · Jan 2, 2013

Greg Lovern said:
Greg Lovern wrote:
I'm not sure because my DSLR won't go there without flash. I have the most powerful shoe-mounted flash available for my DSLR and I use it often with my young kids running around in very dim indoor lighting. Of course I bounce it whenever possible. So -- how are today's EVFs for small children running around in very dim indoor lighting?

I do that type of photography all the time with my grandchildren with no problem so to answer your question, EVFs work just fine tracking fast objects in dim light (A55 & A65).

Greg Lovern · Jan 2, 2013

Draek said:
Draek wrote:

who the hell allows their children to run around in very dim light, if you can't see well with your naked eye you shouldn't be allowing small kids to run around carelessly.

Funny how young childless people always seem to know the most about child raising.

Draek said:
if you can't see well with your naked eye

Who said anything about not being able to see well with my naked eye? My eyes adjust to dim light; don't yours?

Greg

PerL · Jan 2, 2013

GalaxyIII said:
GalaxyIII wrote:

Many old dogs are reluctant to give up the past, when it comes to OVF vs. EVF. Some of those old dogs are Canon and Nikon, not to mention their fan base. Some of those very people are hanging on to their Beta Max recorder, 8 track tape player, and Laser disk recorder, and bell bottom pants, and disco music.

--

http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

EinsteinsGhost · Jan 2, 2013

Greg Lovern said:
Greg Lovern wrote:

Greg Lovern said:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Greg Lovern said:

Greg Lovern wrote:

Greg Lovern said:

hpeter wrote:

Greg Lovern said:

I never had problems tracking fast moving subjects. I'm not a bird photographer, but I've shot an osprey carrying a fish, and was also able to follow a seagull when I tried, and it never occurred to me that it was difficult to track "becuase of the EVF".

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

What about fast-moving subjects in dim light?

I know that someday we'll have EVFs that are just as good as OVFs for very fast-moving subjects in very dim light, but are we there now already?

Just curious.

Greg

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

Click to expand...

What would you consider dim light for action? We can discuss it using brightness value if exif includes it or calculate it using iso, aperture and shutter speed. Would brightness value of 1 suffice or do we need to go into negative territory?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure because my DSLR won't go there without flash. I have the most powerful shoe-mounted flash available for my DSLR and I use it often with my young kids running around in very dim indoor lighting. Of course I bounce it whenever possible. So -- how are today's EVFs for small children running around in very dim indoor lighting?

Greg

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

That doesn't mean much because flash may be required over a variety of situations, for various reasons. What matters in this case is what kind of brightness of the scene you're alluding to. With EVF, I regularly shoot in near dark conditions, usually with manual focus (which is more my style). I'm extremely picky about using flash and will use only if absolutely necessary.

Here's an example of near dark shooting (Brightness Value: -2.38):

--
Sony A55, Sony NEX-3, Sony F828

Takuya · Jan 2, 2013

WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp wrote:

And for me the EVF feels ineffective with anything that moves, which is a lot of my shooting. Feels like a P&S that can't keep up. OVF, on the other hand does keep up exactly with what I'm photographing, a critical and necessary value in a viewfinder.

Enjoy your static shooting

As far as exposure, color balance and so on I don't need a viewfinder to find out if I set the camera correctly. Experience counts a lot.

So, just because YOU can't take pics of moving objects with an EVF, nobody else can either? I love my A77 and A99 and all the features of EVF. I've done some BIF with limited results, but mainly because I've only gone out once twice; autosports (moving cars) and most of all, my kids (moving human beings). Taking pics of kids running around a park is hardly 'static shooting' and the EVF on both of my cameras works just fine and in no way limits my photography.

Walt, while I have no arguments that you have experience with cameras, or that you are entitled to your opinion and often learn from some of what you have to say, it's the comments like these (in bold) that offend me (and others) because they come across as arrogant and pompous and that you think you are better than the rest of us because you use an OVF. It's not difficult to be tactful in criticism of a product and even people or their opinions when so desired, but the comment 'Enjoy your static shooting' simply because YOU don't enjoy shooting 'anything that moves' with an EVF lacks all kinds of tact and really turns people off to listening to anything you have to say. Are you are telling the OP that he/she is only going to be able to take landscape and still photography? Is that why you said it? Because to me, that is certainly what it sounds like.

The second comment in bold up there...well, I guess that we all can't be quite as awesome.

You should have stopped with the first part of your reply and left it at that. You would have come off much better and also, people really won't mind that and would be more likely to see your point.

Draek · Jan 2, 2013

Greg Lovern said:
Greg Lovern wrote:

Funny how young childless people always seem to know the most about child raising.

You know what they say about assumptions.

Greg Lovern said:
Who said anything about not being able to see well with my naked eye? My eyes adjust to dim light; don't yours?

They do, to a point. And if you can see well under it, it's no longer "very dim"---think "moonlight" or "starlight", not "40w bulb".

Greg Lovern · Jan 2, 2013

EinsteinsGhost said:
EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

Greg Lovern wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

Greg Lovern wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

hpeter wrote:

EinsteinsGhost said:

I never had problems tracking fast moving subjects. I'm not a bird photographer, but I've shot an osprey carrying a fish, and was also able to follow a seagull when I tried, and it never occurred to me that it was difficult to track "becuase of the EVF".

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

What about fast-moving subjects in dim light?

I know that someday we'll have EVFs that are just as good as OVFs for very fast-moving subjects in very dim light, but are we there now already?

Just curious.

Greg

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

Click to expand...

What would you consider dim light for action? We can discuss it using brightness value if exif includes it or calculate it using iso, aperture and shutter speed. Would brightness value of 1 suffice or do we need to go into negative territory?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure because my DSLR won't go there without flash. I have the most powerful shoe-mounted flash available for my DSLR and I use it often with my young kids running around in very dim indoor lighting. Of course I bounce it whenever possible. So -- how are today's EVFs for small children running around in very dim indoor lighting?

Greg

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

Click to expand...

That doesn't mean much because flash may be required over a variety of situations, for various reasons. What matters in this case is what kind of brightness of the scene you're alluding to. With EVF, I regularly shoot in near dark conditions, usually with manual focus (which is more my style). I'm extremely picky about using flash and will use only if absolutely necessary.

Here's an example of near dark shooting (Brightness Value: -2.38):

That's an interesting shot; what are those things?

EinsteinsGhost said:
I regularly shoot in near dark conditions

When you do that, how well does the EVF keep up with fast-moving subjects?

If today's EVFs can keep up with fast-moving subjects in near-dark, maybe it's time for me to start saving my pennies to get one. With my DSLR, in the dark I can't see my subjects well but AF still works fine so I can get a shot, but can't really capture the moment as well as I'd like because I can't see facial expressions. But with an EVF I'd be able to see facial expressions no matter how dark the scene was -- correct?

Greg

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

Greg Lovern · Jan 2, 2013

Draek said:
Draek wrote:

Draek said:

Greg Lovern wrote:

Who said anything about not being able to see well with my naked eye? My eyes adjust to dim light; don't yours?

Click to expand...

They do, to a point. And if you can see well under it, it's no longer "very dim"---think "moonlight" or "starlight", not "40w bulb".

very adjective \ˈver-ē, ˈve-rē\
1. Check with Draek at dpreview for the meaning of "very". He is the authority. We here at Merriam-Webster have no authority to comment.

Draek · Jan 3, 2013

Wrong, you should've checked the definition for dim instead. Note how all definitions involve being unable to distinguish details, even those unrelated to light levels.

Jeadm · Jan 3, 2013

I happened to give this a lot of thought around the turn of the new year. Having used an EVF virtually exclusively for most of the last year, I by chance had to use an OVF recently. I'm not new to this game, I've used OVF for many years. But I have to say, having used OVFs for years I too was...concerned...about the transition to EVF. But at the same time, getting on the OVF for the first time in a while I found it a little disconcerting. Long story short I didn't miss it as much as I thought I would when I first switched. Each has its pros and cons to be sure. But I've found the EVF tech has improved enough that it has virtually no bearing at all on whether or not I get a good shot. The biggest limiting factor has always been (and continues to be) myself.

Oh yes, that and my ability to secure nicer toys with the wife's blessing. But honey, I must have it to capture precious memories of the kids. Haha.

perry rhodan · Jan 3, 2013

Made my ingnore list much longer, hehe.

This E/OVF paranoia is not getting better. Lots of opinions, very few facts. Some seem to have the crystal ball we are all looking for, hehe

Now goin to take a Knapppp.

Regards Perry

I looked through an optical viewfinder

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