I looked through an optical viewfinder

hpeter · Dec 31, 2012

After owning the a57 for about 4 months (and the A700 before that for 3 years), I went down to our video department and grabbed one of their Nikon D800 and looked through it.

Hah! Good old days...

I felt neutral in the EVF vs OVF debate. It looks nice and clean and all that, but I was missing the instant view of color balance and exposure feedback.

As a side-note, I also find it funny that there is no eye-sensor on the D800 and every time you take a shot, it either always shows you a preview or never, depending on settings. I don't own the D800 and never shot with it, so I'm just guessing this point, so correct me if I'm wrong. But on the A700 there is no preview if you don't move your eye away from the viewfinder, and on the a57 you see (or don't) a picture that was just taken, depending on your selection.

Anyhow. I don't feel like I'm missing OVF. I think for me EVF works out just fine. Everybody has their own preferences and I'm perfectly happy with the a57.

Just felt like sharing my feelings about it.

Happy new year to all!

danny006 · Dec 31, 2012

Whenever I look through an OVF it always feels like its broken and feels like technology from the previous century. I don't say an EVF is superior in every way - for instance - photo journalists who rely on that one second to take a picture, the slight delay with an EVF can be problematic. But I like my A77 EVF and it would feel strange if I got back to an OVF.

hpeter · Dec 31, 2012

danny006 said:
danny006 wrote:

Whenever I look through an OVF it always feels like its broken and feels like technology from the previous century. I don't say an EVF is superior in every way - for instance - photo journalists who rely on that one second to take a picture, the slight delay with an EVF can be problematic. But I like my A77 EVF and it would feel strange if I got back to an OVF.

WaltKnapp · Dec 31, 2012

hpeter said:
hpeter wrote:
You got that right. That was my feeling, I just couldn't put it in words. It felt a bit old-ish...

And for me the EVF feels ineffective with anything that moves, which is a lot of my shooting. Feels like a P&S that can't keep up. OVF, on the other hand does keep up exactly with what I'm photographing, a critical and necessary value in a viewfinder.

Enjoy your static shooting

As far as exposure, color balance and so on I don't need a viewfinder to find out if I set the camera correctly. Experience counts a lot.

Filterless Sensor · Dec 31, 2012

hpeter said:
hpeter wrote:

hpeter said:

danny006 wrote:

Whenever I look through an OVF it always feels like its broken and feels like technology from the previous century. I don't say an EVF is superior in every way - for instance - photo journalists who rely on that one second to take a picture, the slight delay with an EVF can be problematic. But I like my A77 EVF and it would feel strange if I got back to an OVF.

Click to expand...

EinsteinsGhost · Dec 31, 2012

WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp wrote:

WaltKnapp said:

hpeter wrote:
You got that right. That was my feeling, I just couldn't put it in words. It felt a bit old-ish...

Click to expand...

And for me the EVF feels ineffective with anything that moves, which is a lot of my shooting. Feels like a P&S that can't keep up. OVF, on the other hand does keep up exactly with what I'm photographing, a critical and necessary value in a viewfinder.

Enjoy your static shooting

As far as exposure, color balance and so on I don't need a viewfinder to find out if I set the camera correctly. Experience counts a lot.

The last camera I had with OVF was a P&S (Canon A20).

There's been no going back, since 2003.

GalaxyIII · Dec 31, 2012

Many old dogs are reluctant to give up the past, when it comes to OVF vs. EVF. Some of those old dogs are Canon and Nikon, not to mention their fan base. Some of those very people are hanging on to their Beta Max recorder, 8 track tape player, and Laser disk recorder, and bell bottom pants, and disco music.

Steve West · Dec 31, 2012

Filterless Sensor said:
Filterless Sensor wrote:

Funny, I thought exactly the opposite when I realized an EVF cannot even display the full DR of a measly 8bit jpeg file, let alone the 14bit raws I shoot on my IIs. NO THANKS!

At first this bothered me too. With the EVF implementation on the current Sonys, the bottom 25-30% of the image (shadows) go black and are essentially missing from view.

But just like when I am looking through a beautiful pentaprism viewfinder, I count on my settings and the camera to get the image right. With the EVF, I am at least seeing the upper 2/3 in close to WYSIWYG format, and I count on my settings and the camera to get the rest right.

So I don't really understand your objections. With the pentaprism, you don't get to see what the camera is doing at all, but with the EVF, you get to see a lot [but certainly not all] of the outcome. IN each case, you count on your settings and the camera performance to get the rest right. But then there are things like focus peaking which are a fantastic use of the EVF.

No question in my mind is that the world looks better through a wonderful pentaprism, but the EVF provides more functionality.

Eric Perez · Dec 31, 2012

GalaxyIII said:
GalaxyIII wrote:

Many old dogs are reluctant to give up the past, when it comes to OVF vs. EVF. Some of those old dogs are Canon and Nikon, not to mention their fan base. Some of those very people are hanging on to their Beta Max recorder, 8 track tape player, and Laser disk recorder, and bell bottom pants, and disco music.

This kind of reasoning is flawed though. I started with a SLT camera, used 2 others along the way, and finally settled on a different brand with a pentaprism. I think it's irresponsible and actually insulting to accuse another person you don't know (your words were "their fan base") of using an OVF because they are stuck in the past. I am proof that is not the case, I am in my 30s, have only been shooting for a few years, and tried EVFs first. There are other reasons people prefer OVF besides mental issues, some of us actually base it on actual reasons, as odd as that may sound.

EinsteinsGhost · Dec 31, 2012

Eric Perez said:
Eric Perez wrote:

Eric Perez said:

GalaxyIII wrote:

Many old dogs are reluctant to give up the past, when it comes to OVF vs. EVF. Some of those old dogs are Canon and Nikon, not to mention their fan base. Some of those very people are hanging on to their Beta Max recorder, 8 track tape player, and Laser disk recorder, and bell bottom pants, and disco music.

Click to expand...

This kind of reasoning is flawed though. I started with a SLT camera, used 2 others along the way, and finally settled on a different brand with a pentaprism. I think it's irresponsible and actually insulting to accuse another person you don't know (your words were "their fan base") of using an OVF because they are stuck in the past. I am proof that is not the case, I am in my 30s, have only been shooting for a few years, and tried EVFs first. There are other reasons people prefer OVF besides mental issues, some of us actually base it on actual reasons, as odd as that may sound.

You could have made this argument to the person you came back to support but you didn't. Like I said, for me, there is no going back. The person I responded to earlier, assumed that people with EVF only care to shoot static objects. That was a rather poor assumption, no?

davemj98 · Dec 31, 2012

:-( When I am using my viewfinder to follow a motorcycle flying through the air at 60+ mph, I am not going to be able to keep him in the frame with the EVF. When I am getting him in the air 5 to 8 times before he hits the ground, those are my 'money' shots. No can do with the EVF.

Dave

El Profe · Dec 31, 2012

You said: "every time you take a shot, it either always shows you a preview or never, depending on settings. I don't own the D800 and never shot with it, so I'm just guessing this point, so correct me if I'm wrong. But on the A700 there is no preview if you don't move your eye away from the viewfinder, and on the a57 you see (or don't) a picture that was just taken, depending on your selection".

I suppose you are talking about live view (something I have never used with anyone of my DSLR cameras only with my P&S and only because I have no other option) because in regular photos an OVF camera always shows you exactly what you are looking except for the micro second that it goes black when taking the photo (due to the change of position of the mirror). And that's really a very small amount of time speially if shooting at 1/500 sec or faster. The EVF cameras are the ones that continue showing an image even when you are taking the photos, although not really of image that you are capturing while pressing the shutter button, but of the last "video image" that she was able to capture before you actually pushed the shutter button.

Filterless Sensor · Dec 31, 2012

Steve West said:
Steve West wrote:

Steve West said:

Filterless Sensor wrote:

Funny, I thought exactly the opposite when I realized an EVF cannot even display the full DR of a measly 8bit jpeg file, let alone the 14bit raws I shoot on my IIs. NO THANKS!

Click to expand...

So I don't really understand your objections. With the pentaprism, you don't get to see what the camera is doing at all, but with the EVF, you get to see a lot [but certainly not all] of the outcome. IN each case, you count on your settings and the camera performance to get the rest right. But then there are things like focus peaking which are a fantastic use of the EVF.

I agree that neither give you 100% of what the photo will show, one doesn't show you enough and the other shows too much. If we are honest with ourselves and admit no matter which we have we still have to rely on camera settings (not sure most EVF users can do this with the WYSIWYG craze and all), then what are we left with? Neither VF is superior with exposure judgement, but OVF has none of the issues of lag, low light framerate issues while panning, added power drain, ect. I'm glad to see you have the maturity to admit that the EVF WYSIWYG idea is false, but this is what OVF users already know.

Steve West said:
No question in my mind is that the world looks better through a wonderful pentaprism, but the EVF provides more functionality.

Yes, but If I really need electronic functions, I still have my LCD. Even pentax is including peaking into their models, likely in every new model from here on out. Canon users have it with ML hacks as well. The difference is when I really need peaking, or live histo, I can have it without giving up my OVF advantages. With EVF you are forcing yourself to go down one road only.

EinsteinsGhost · Dec 31, 2012

davemj98 said:
davemj98 wrote:

:-( When I am using my viewfinder to follow a motorcycle flying through the air at 60+ mph, I am not going to be able to keep him in the frame with the EVF. When I am getting him in the air 5 to 8 times before he hits the ground, those are my 'money' shots. No can do with the EVF.

Dave

--
davidsdigitalphotography.com

If I can track these eyes with EVF, I see no reason why a motorcycle couldn't be tracked.

Sony A55 + Sigma 18-250 HSM OS

--
Sony A55, Sony NEX-3, Sony F828

EinsteinsGhost · Dec 31, 2012

Filterless Sensor said:
Filterless Sensor wrote:

I agree that neither give you 100% of what the photo will show, one doesn't show you enough and the other shows too much. If we are honest with ourselves and admit no matter which we have we still have to rely on camera settings (not sure most EVF users can do this with the WYSIWYG craze and all), then what are we left with? Neither VF is superior with exposure judgement, but OVF has none of the issues of lag, low light framerate issues while panning, added power drain, ect. I'm glad to see you have the maturity to admit that the EVF WYSIWYG idea is false, but this is what OVF users already know.

Low light framerate is more useful than a relatively dark OVF. It is also more useful when I'm relying on self to adjust exposure rather than relying entirely on the camera via adapted lenses. It is more useful with information without having to take my eyes from VF.

Filterless Sensor said:
Filterless Sensor said:

No question in my mind is that the world looks better through a wonderful pentaprism, but the EVF provides more functionality.

Click to expand...

Yes, but If I really need electronic functions, I still have my LCD.

With CDAF and fixed LCD, I'm assuming.

Steve West · Dec 31, 2012

I think we are on the same page here. Many years ago, after using the KM A2 camera for a couple of years (with an EVF), I remember looking through the KM D7's big pentaprism. I bought the D7 and swore that I would never use an EVF again. Now that I have over a year of experience with the new EVFs, I'm not so cold on them anymore. I tried to hate the EVF, but I knew if I was staying with Sony, it was going to be my only option. I'm glad I tried them, and they should just get better and better. Still I miss the OVF which is why I still pull out my A700 and use it now and again

Filterless Sensor said:
Filterless Sensor wrote:

Filterless Sensor said:

Steve West wrote:

Filterless Sensor said:

Filterless Sensor wrote:

Funny, I thought exactly the opposite when I realized an EVF cannot even display the full DR of a measly 8bit jpeg file, let alone the 14bit raws I shoot on my IIs. NO THANKS!

Click to expand...

So I don't really understand your objections. With the pentaprism, you don't get to see what the camera is doing at all, but with the EVF, you get to see a lot [but certainly not all] of the outcome. IN each case, you count on your settings and the camera performance to get the rest right. But then there are things like focus peaking which are a fantastic use of the EVF.

Click to expand...

I agree that neither give you 100% of what the photo will show, one doesn't show you enough and the other shows too much. If we are honest with ourselves and admit no matter which we have we still have to rely on camera settings (not sure most EVF users can do this with the WYSIWYG craze and all), then what are we left with? Neither VF is superior with exposure judgement, but OVF has none of the issues of lag, low light framerate issues while panning, added power drain, ect. I'm glad to see you have the maturity to admit that the EVF WYSIWYG idea is false, but this is what OVF users already know.

Filterless Sensor said:

No question in my mind is that the world looks better through a wonderful pentaprism, but the EVF provides more functionality.

Click to expand...

Yes, but If I really need electronic functions, I still have my LCD. Even pentax is including peaking into their models, likely in every new model from here on out. Canon users have it with ML hacks as well. The difference is when I really need peaking, or live histo, I can have it without giving up my OVF advantages. With EVF you are forcing yourself to go down one road only.

WaltKnapp · Dec 31, 2012

EinsteinsGhost said:
EinsteinsGhost wrote:You could have made this argument to the person you came back to support but you didn't. Like I said, for me, there is no going back. The person I responded to earlier, assumed that people with EVF only care to shoot static objects. That was a rather poor assumption, no?

Not when they don't even notice or mention the problems of EVF lag when shooting moving subjects. Clearly they have no experience shooting moving subjects. You display what you know and do show that in what you say.

And as one who uses both EVF and OVF (and have used and experienced quite a few other types) I'm in the majority and fully understand both. You are in the minority of one small brand, Sony.

Samsolar · Dec 31, 2012

danny006 said:
danny006 wrote:

Whenever I look through an OVF it always feels like its broken and feels like technology from the previous century. I don't say an EVF is superior in every way - for instance - photo journalists who rely on that one second to take a picture, the slight delay with an EVF can be problematic. But I like my A77 EVF and it would feel strange if I got back to an OVF.

WaltKnapp · Dec 31, 2012

EinsteinsGhost said:
EinsteinsGhost wrote:

If I can track these eyes with EVF, I see no reason why a motorcycle couldn't be tracked.

That is a bird gliding relatively slowly along a very easily predictable path. It's possible to shoot shots like that with a view camera on a tripod. Or even no viewfinder at all.

There are a lot of things much, much harder to track than even a motorcycle. But also seeing the critical moment to fire the shutter at the same time makes it harder. What you see in the EVF is not the critical moment, which often passes before the EVF even manages to display it, let alone allow time to react.

GalaxyIII · Dec 31, 2012

Eric Perez said:
Eric Perez wrote:

Eric Perez said:

GalaxyIII wrote:

Many old dogs are reluctant to give up the past, when it comes to OVF vs. EVF. "Some" of those old dogs are Canon and Nikon, not to mention their fan base. "Some" of those very people are hanging on to their Beta Max recorder, 8 track tape player, and Laser disk recorder, and bell bottom pants, and disco music.

Click to expand...

This kind of reasoning is flawed though. I started with a SLT camera, used 2 others along the way, and finally settled on a different brand with a pentaprism. I think it's irresponsible and actually insulting to accuse another person you don't know (your words were "their fan base") of using an OVF because they are stuck in the past. I am proof that is not the case, I am in my 30s, have only been shooting for a few years, and tried EVFs first. There are other reasons people prefer OVF besides mental issues, some of us actually base it on actual reasons, as odd as that may sound.

I said " SOME" and I did not single out a single person or even elude to anyone specific. I made general statement about general people, you are trying to escalate my generalized statement to include specific people

You said: "accuse another person that you don't even know" , as if I was singling out a specific person.. which is not true.

6 months ago Canon ands Nikon ( I guess they were stuck in the past )were saying that the Sony's EVF was a toy. Now Nikon and Canon are adding " toys " to their line up as well. ( Guess they have seen that their past is Not their future.)

Flawed as my Hypothesis might be, I think the only thing irresponsible and rude was your post to me. IM new here and you are the only person who has lived up to the reputation this forum has developed out in the real world. I have been pleasantly surprised that this has not been the case since Ive been here. At Least not until your comments. Calling me rude and irresponsible without foundation is what my friends were eluding too about this forum. I'm happy you are in the minority.

I looked through an optical viewfinder

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Forum Pro

Well-known member

Forum Pro

Active member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Active member

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts