Installing OS on SSD from HDD

jamesdak · Dec 16, 2012

Ok, I keep seeing these instructions and references about doing from the USB or DVD. I used Dell's recovery program to make my recovery DVDs. First off it needed 3 DVDs because it was over 11 GB. Then once I changed the boot sequence to the DVD drive and put in the first DVD all I get is an error stating "No bootable device available"

So what I am doing wrong. Sucks to have this computer just waiting to go and to be running into problems with what is supposed to be so simple. Has anyone actually did this off of DVD's?

And why can others get by with an 8GB USB Drive when it needed 11 GB when I created the recovery?

jamesdak · Dec 16, 2012

SO on top of the problem mentioned right above the computer is not recognizing the SSD. When I go into explorer all it shows is the C drive and the DVD. No sign of the SSD.

What a pain in the butt this is turning out to be. On top of everything come trying to figure out what the heck I am doing in freaking crap windows 8. No I am not in a good mood.

Jim Cockfield · Dec 16, 2012

jamesdak said:
jamesdak wrote:

Ok, I keep seeing these instructions and references about doing from the USB or DVD. I used Dell's recovery program to make my recovery DVDs. First off it needed 3 DVDs because it was over 11 GB. Then once I changed the boot sequence to the DVD drive and put in the first DVD all I get is an error stating "No bootable device available"

So what I am doing wrong. Sucks to have this computer just waiting to go and to be running into problems with what is supposed to be so simple. Has anyone actually did this off of DVD's?

And why can others get by with an 8GB USB Drive when it needed 11 GB when I created the recovery?

They probably just have more in the recovery partition now.

Anyway, make sure you're using the first DVD in the set (as that's probably the only one that's actually bootable).

If so, then you probably have a newer machine with Secure Boot enabled by default.

That's a feature Microsoft implemented in Windows 8, and it's going to prevent you from booting into anything other than a properly installed and signed Operating System using a key from Microsoft.

More about Secure boot here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8#Secure_boot

But, you can disable it in BIOS (which is what you'll probably need to do in order to boot into the Dell Datasafe Recovery disks). You'll also need to disable it to boot into other third party backup and restore programs, virus scanners with boot disks, linux distros, etc. Basically, it's a "pain in the rear" and a lot of people are upset about it.

See pages 363 and 364 of this guide for how to disable Secure Boot in your BIOS

http://eilo7a.bay.livefilestore.com...sUi4Me1y0Rdw/Wikies Beta2.pdf?download&psid=1

Jim Cockfield · Dec 16, 2012

jamesdak said:
jamesdak wrote:

SO on top of the problem mentioned right above the computer is not recognizing the SSD. When I go into explorer all it shows is the C drive and the DVD. No sign of the SSD.

A new drive wouldn't have any partition table on it yet. So, it's probably not going to show up in Windows Explorer until then. The same thing applies to Win 7.

But, it should show up under Microsoft Disk Management; and after it's partitioned and formatted, you should also see it under Windows Explorer (and if you use your Dell Datasafe Restore disks, it should handle that part for you, partitioning the drive and formatting those partitions for you).

IOW, it doesn't have anything on it yet (no partition table, no file systems). So, until then, you're probably not going to see it in Windows Explorer.

jamesdak · Dec 16, 2012

Thanks Jim.

I'll check all of this tomorrow. Probably shouldn't have started messing with this tonight. All ready in a bad mood from locking myself out of the house while snowblowing. Time for some leaded eggnog vs playing with the computer.

The first disk is the bootable one and it does show on the disk. I'll check everything else tomorrow.

My kids gave me CS6 extended so I really want to get this up and running.

malch · Dec 16, 2012

Member said:
Jim Cockfield wrote:

A new drive wouldn't have any partition table on it yet. So, it's probably not going to show up in Windows Explorer until then. The same thing applies to Win 7.

But, it should show up under Microsoft Disk Management; and after it's partitioned and formatted, you should also see it under Windows Explorer (and if you use your Dell Datasafe Restore disks, it should handle that part for you, partitioning the drive and formatting those partitions for you).

First, check the BIOS settings. Does it show up there? And is that SATA port enabled?

If the port is disabled, it won't even show up under Disk Management.

So...

1. Check the BIOS settings.

2. Check Disk Management and create/format a partition.

3. Finally, check from Explorer.

Jim Cockfield · Dec 16, 2012

Member said:
Jim Cockfield wrote:

Member said:

jamesdak wrote:

Ok, I keep seeing these instructions and references about doing from the USB or DVD. I used Dell's recovery program to make my recovery DVDs. First off it needed 3 DVDs because it was over 11 GB. Then once I changed the boot sequence to the DVD drive and put in the first DVD all I get is an error stating "No bootable device available"

So what I am doing wrong. Sucks to have this computer just waiting to go and to be running into problems with what is supposed to be so simple. Has anyone actually did this off of DVD's?

And why can others get by with an 8GB USB Drive when it needed 11 GB when I created the recovery?

Click to expand...

They probably just have more in the recovery partition now.

P.S.

Someone else mentioned in a recent post here about doing the same thing with an XP:S 8500 that an 8GB USB stick wouldn't work, and they needed to use a 16GB stick instead. So, the amount of data they have on the Recovery Partition that they're saving to DVD or USB Flash Drives probably just increased with Win 8.

Anyway, Disable Secure Boot in your BIOS (see my last post) and then see if you can boot into the DVD OK (use the first one in the set, as the others won't be bootable).

I think they're shipping the newer machines with it enabled now, and that's going to prevent you from booting into backup and restore disks (or anything else other than Microsoft Windows 8).

I'd unplug your hard drive while using the Recovery DVDs. It should find the mSATA drive OK (as long as it's not set to SRT in your BIOS, as you don't want to use it for cache, and want to use it as a separate drive instead), and let you install Windows to it.

If it doesn't boot OK after you finish the install (for example, you get a NTLDR error), renable secure boot and try it that way after Windows is installed on the SSD.

Member said:
Anyway, make sure you're using the first DVD in the set (as that's probably the only one that's actually bootable).

If so, then you probably have a newer machine with Secure Boot enabled by default.

That's a feature Microsoft implemented in Windows 8, and it's going to prevent you from booting into anything other than a properly installed and signed Operating System using a key from Microsoft.

More about Secure boot here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8#Secure_boot

But, you can disable it in BIOS (which is what you'll probably need to do in order to boot into the Dell Datasafe Recovery disks). You'll also need to disable it to boot into other third party backup and restore programs, virus scanners with boot disks, linux distros, etc. Basically, it's a "pain in the rear" and a lot of people are upset about it.

See pages 363 and 364 of this guide for how to disable Secure Boot in your BIOS

http://eilo7a.bay.livefilestore.com...sUi4Me1y0Rdw/Wikies Beta2.pdf?download&psid=1

Jim Cockfield · Dec 16, 2012

Member said:
malch wrote:

Member said:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

A new drive wouldn't have any partition table on it yet. So, it's probably not going to show up in Windows Explorer until then. The same thing applies to Win 7.

But, it should show up under Microsoft Disk Management; and after it's partitioned and formatted, you should also see it under Windows Explorer (and if you use your Dell Datasafe Restore disks, it should handle that part for you, partitioning the drive and formatting those partitions for you).

Click to expand...

First, check the BIOS settings. Does it show up there? And is that SATA port enabled?

If the port is disabled, it won't even show up under Disk Management.

So...

1. Check the BIOS settings.

2. Check Disk Management and create/format a partition.

3. Finally, check from Explorer.

Make sure it's not set for Intel SRT (Smart Response Technology) in your BIOS, too (where it's being used for Cache purposes versus a separate drive). You want to use it as a separate drive, not for SRT.

abelits · Dec 17, 2012

I have just converted my Thinkpad X220 from using its original hard drive (Hitachi, 320G) to SSD (Intel 330 Series, 240G). The most problematic part was that Lenovo for some reason insisted on using 7mm drives on rails, and this is a 9.5mm drive (as high as rails would be), so I had to remove the keyboard and palm rest to push the drive into the cage past the bumps at the opening (and have the option to push it out if necessary), then close the case before I could do anything with software.

Since I am running Kubuntu, OS and data transfer between drives was very uneventful, I have attached the original drive through USB to SATA adapter, and external USB CD drive with bootable Kubuntu CD, booted from the CD, ran fdisk to create the partition table on the SSD (it is smaller than the original drive), created file system and swap space, mounted SSD with "discard" option (so TRIM will be issued), mounted the original drive, and copied everything with "cp -a".

Once the new drive was ready, I have updated /etc/fstab entries on it with UUIDs taken from "blkid" output and modified mount options to include "discard", mounted /sys, /proc and /dev with "bind" option (from the original locations on ramdisk to their counterparts on SSD), and entered chroot'ed environment on SSD. From that environment I re-generated initial ramdisk files and GRUB configuration, and installed GRUB, then exited from chroot, unmounted everything, halted the system and removed all external devices.

When I turned the laptop on again, it booted from SSD to the exact copy of my original environment. Boot now takes 6 seconds after BIOS POST completes.

jamesdak · Dec 17, 2012

Ok secure boot was disabled already in the BIOS.

The SSD showed up on like Sata Port 5 or something like that.

When I go into Disk Management it is showing up as Disk 1 and properly identified as Md 128 GB drive.

Disk Management says it is Basic for a type and shows 119.24 GB as Unallocated.

Ok so today when I changed the Bios to boot off the DVD it actually did. That is the only change from last night were it kept erroring out. Then the Dell recovery program runs. I pick to boot of the DVd and it checks the machine and returns a no error found. But then when it goes to load the OS it gives me an error saying I need a hard drive with XXXX space on it and quits.

So, now what. This is pretty frustrating for what everyone claims is such an easy process.

Oh and I am disconnecting the standard HD before booting it up.

jamesdak · Dec 17, 2012

Ok so what it says is this "Your hard drive size is not supported for this process. Please use a hard drive at least 1863 GB in size. I am pretty sure that is the size of the main partition on the original 2 TB Hard drive. Did I do something wrong when I made the recovery disk?

Jim Cockfield · Dec 17, 2012

I'd go ahead and create an NTFS partition using the entire SSD and format it using MS disk management (just "right click" on the unallocated space in the graphics you should find and use the build in Wizards for that purpose), and see if it behaves differently that way. But, I thought the recovery program would automatically handle that kind of thing for you.

jamesdak · Dec 17, 2012

Hi Jim

but what about the program asking for a 1800 GB hard drive, can't get that out of 128 GB SSD.

Jim Cockfield · Dec 17, 2012

jamesdak said:
jamesdak wrote:

Ok so what it says is this "Your hard drive size is not supported for this process. Please use a hard drive at least 1863 GB in size. I am pretty sure that is the size of the main partition on the original 2 TB Hard drive. Did I do something wrong when I made the recovery disk?

jamesdak · Dec 17, 2012

Ok creating the partition did the trick Jim, Thanks!

Now it pops up an error box "error 0x40001100200000100a"

LOL, and to think they just hired me on to work on computers. Told then I need training,

Jim Cockfield · Dec 17, 2012

I'd just shrink the last partition on your hard drive install using Microsoft Disk Management, so that all of your existing partitions fit into 128GB (leaving the rest of the existing hard drive space as unallocated).

Then, you should be able to make a backup and restore it to the SSD using either Microsoft's Built in System Image Backup, or free third party tools like Macrium Reflect.

Then, if you run Microsoft's Windows Experience Index, it should enable trim for you and disable defragment scheduling (it does that when it detects an SSD is being used).

That may be easier than trying to do it with the Dell Data Safe Program. I don't recall anyone reporting your systems with it before. So, perhaps something to do with Windows 8 is causing a problem.

If you don't have a drive you can use for backups, you may want to try the Dell Datasafe Program again (but, not creating new recovery disks until after you've resized the partitions on your hard drive so that everything fits into 128GB or less, leaving the rest of the space on the drive as unallocated).

I didn't think it worked that way though (it's very odd it's wanting a drive that's as large as the original). I don't recall anyone reporting that before. But, if you shrink the last partition on the hard drive before making the recovery disk, that would probably solve that issue if it's trying to recreate new partitions that are the same size as the originals when restoring.

jamesdak · Dec 17, 2012

Member said:
Jim Cockfield wrote:

Member said:

jamesdak wrote:

Ok so what it says is this "Your hard drive size is not supported for this process. Please use a hard drive at least 1863 GB in size. I am pretty sure that is the size of the main partition on the original 2 TB Hard drive. Did I do something wrong when I made the recovery disk?

Click to expand...

Jim Cockfield · Dec 17, 2012

jamesdak said:
jamesdak wrote:
------

This is strange, the last partition is the 12.02 GB Recovery Partition. So it is already well under 128 GB. Guess I'll try to make another set of recovery DVD's and see what happens.

--

That's an odd way of doing it. Usually, you find a diagnostic partition, then a recovery partition, then the main Windows partition with most installs. Grrrrrrr

So, you'd need to shrink the largest partition, then move the recovery partition to eliminate the used space in between the partitions to use the approach I mentioned.

IOW, the unallocated space would need to be at the end of the drive you're backing up when moving to a smaller drive in most cases; where you're only using 128GB or less of the first part of the drive in order to backup and restore it to a 128GB SSD with most software.

That would depend on the way the backup and restore software works (if it's trying to reproduce the identical partition table structure or not). But, I suspect that most of it is going to work that way (require the unallocated space to be at the end of the drive, since it's going to restore a partition table with the same start and stop offsets as the original drive was using).

Do you have a 16GB memory card and card reader? If so, you may want to try it as your recovery media instead of using DVDs and see if that works. You can use a memory card in a card reader the same way as you can use a 16GB USB Flash Drive.

I'd look at the choices carefully when making the recovery media; as it sounds like you may be making a full backup (not just a recovery disk).

Otherwise, I would not expect to see the symptoms you're reporting (a recovery disk should not care about drive sizes).

Jim Cockfield · Dec 17, 2012

What you're reporting sounds like you used the Data Safe Software to make a full backup, not a recovery disk (and if you didn't have a lot of data, a backup might have been able to fit on a few DVDs if it was compressed).

So, look at the options carefully.

You want to tell it to create Recovery Media. You do *not* want to tell it to make a full system backup (which is what it sounds like you may have done).

Otherwise, the drive you're restoring to would have to be large enough to fit the size of the original partitions on).

So, make sure you're using the option to Create Recovery Media (not the option to make a full system backup).

Then, it shouldn't care what the original drive size was when you use it (it's just reinstalling Windows on a new drive, even if it's a different size).

Member said:
Jim Cockfield wrote:

Do you have a 16GB memory card and card reader? If so, you may want to try it as your recovery media instead of using DVDs and see if that works. You can use a memory card in a card reader the same way as you can use a 16GB USB Flash Drive.

I'd look at the choices carefully when making the recovery media; as it sounds like you may be making a full backup (not just a recovery disk).

Otherwise, I would not expect to see the symptoms you're reporting (a recovery disk should not care about drive sizes).

jamesdak · Dec 17, 2012

Jim I do appreciate the advice. I've already started making another set of DVDs so I'll see what happens with that. If they don't work I will try it with a 16Gb Cf card like you suggested...

Then it's "Miller" time if no go.

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