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Two identical cameras in Lightroom

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Paul Graber

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My wife and I both download all of our images into LR, and have done for some years. We can always tell who took what by the info on camera, lens etc. However, I'm thinking of replacing our current (same brand but different model) DSLRs with identical Panny G5s. Two problems strike me about how LR is going to react:-

1 We won't be able to figure out who took what, except perhaps by checking on lens used for an image.

2 Both cameras will presumably use identical numbering regimes - so we are likely to have duplicated numbers for different images. (Maybe I should cross-post this in the M43 forum so that someone who knows if a G5 can be tweaked to alter the numbering can answer.)

Can any LR expert throw any light on how to get round this issue? Many thanks.
 
Paul Graber said:
Paul Graber wrote:

My wife and I both download all of our images into LR, and have done for some years. We can always tell who took what by the info on camera, lens etc. However, I'm thinking of replacing our current (same brand but different model) DSLRs with identical Panny G5s. Two problems strike me about how LR is going to react:-

1 We won't be able to figure out who took what, except perhaps by checking on lens used for an image.

2 Both cameras will presumably use identical numbering regimes - so we are likely to have duplicated numbers for different images. (Maybe I should cross-post this in the M43 forum so that someone who knows if a G5 can be tweaked to alter the numbering can answer.)

Can any LR expert throw any light on how to get round this issue? Many thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks - that's a useful idea that will help with one of the two problems above. Though I fear we won't always remember!
 
soloryb said:
soloryb wrote:
soloryb said:
Paul Graber wrote:

My wife and I both download all of our images into LR, and have done for some years. We can always tell who took what by the info on camera, lens etc. However, I'm thinking of replacing our current (same brand but different model) DSLRs with identical Panny G5s. Two problems strike me about how LR is going to react:-

1 We won't be able to figure out who took what, except perhaps by checking on lens used for an image.

2 Both cameras will presumably use identical numbering regimes - so we are likely to have duplicated numbers for different images. (Maybe I should cross-post this in the M43 forum so that someone who knows if a G5 can be tweaked to alter the numbering can answer.)

Can any LR expert throw any light on how to get round this issue? Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Why not have two logons on the computer and two catalogs , plus 2 separate root folders for your images, then there will never be a problem.




keith
 
True, but I really don't want to have to do that.
 
Paul Graber said:
Paul Graber wrote:
Paul Graber said:
soloryb wrote:
Paul Graber said:
Paul Graber wrote:

My wife and I both download all of our images into LR, and have done for some years. We can always tell who took what by the info on camera, lens etc. However, I'm thinking of replacing our current (same brand but different model) DSLRs with identical Panny G5s. Two problems strike me about how LR is going to react:-

1 We won't be able to figure out who took what, except perhaps by checking on lens used for an image.

2 Both cameras will presumably use identical numbering regimes - so we are likely to have duplicated numbers for different images. (Maybe I should cross-post this in the M43 forum so that someone who knows if a G5 can be tweaked to alter the numbering can answer.)

Can any LR expert throw any light on how to get round this issue? Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks - lots of good suggestions there. I think I will still ask in the M43 forum about the G5 numbering regime.
 
Paul Graber said:
Paul Graber wrote:

Thanks - lots of good suggestions there. I think I will still ask in the M43 forum about the G5 numbering regime.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with the camera but perhaps you can set each camera for a different file name prefix. I know that my Canon 5D3 allows the user to decide what the file names will look like. I can set the file prefix to a set of letters that I wish and, if the G5 does that, you could easily tell the images apart and they would not have a file name conflict.
 
MikeFromMesa said:
MikeFromMesa wrote:
MikeFromMesa said:
Paul Graber wrote:

Thanks - lots of good suggestions there. I think I will still ask in the M43 forum about the G5 numbering regime.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with the camera but perhaps you can set each camera for a different file name prefix. I know that my Canon 5D3 allows the user to decide what the file names will look like. I can set the file prefix to a set of letters that I wish and, if the G5 does that, you could easily tell the images apart and they would not have a file name conflict.
Click to expand...
That's one way.

Incidentally, LR does not care about a file name conflict if the two images are in different folders, and the operating system will not allow this to happen in the same folder.

Some other ideas:

You could massively increase the running image number in one camera. The way my own Panasonic camera works, if you put in a camera card with a higher number image on it than the current count, the camera ratchets up its counter and carries on from that higher figure. So you can "trick" one of the two cameras by renaming an image on a camera card and re-inserting it - to get its running counter straight up to 100000, say.

Lightroom can include special file renaming during a Copy import. Options include: use a sequence number or a date reference or a shoot prefix or whatever - and unless both cameras happen to be in the same ballpark for their image count within a given event, there's no issue.

If you really want to knock yourself out (grin) one of the auto file renaming options in LR, is to include the camera serial number. That's IMO going too far; my real point is, it is easier and more robust if a single import preset can be used for images from both cameras, mingled into the same destination. LR can later separate these out as necessary.

Even if you wanted to colour-calibrate two cameras individually, both of the same camera model, you can set your LR develop defaults to vary per serial number. In that case, each image opened can adopt slightly differently-set-up default processing depending on which camera took it - selecting one or the other calibration profile, for example.
 
richardplondon said:
richardplondon wrote:

If you really want to knock yourself out (grin) one of the auto file renaming options in LR, is to include the camera serial number. That's IMO going too far; my real point is, it is easier and more robust if a single import preset can be used for images from both cameras, mingled into the same destination. LR can later separate these out as necessary.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of what you have written but I wonder what kind of presets you are suggesting for import with LR. I have generally avoided applying any processing presets (other than the LR defaults) when I import with the assumption that I might be importing images from my own DSLR, my wife's DSLR or her point-and-shoot and I did not want to start applying presets I might just end up having to remove manually.

I understand adjusting other things like attaching keywords or gps information but why would you use image presets if you were importing different cameras? And, even with the came camera type and model, people shoot their images differently. I may favor more light and my wife may favor less light, I may setup my camera for landscape and she may use faithful. And so on.

Just wondering.
 
I don't think he meant image presets as such - just used as a mechanism for creating the differentiation via serial number or whatever. I also have no wish to apply the same image processing to every image!
 
I rename all my images after I get them on the computer - I use Photoshop CS6 and rename them in Bridge, I assume Lightroom will do something similar. My wife and I have different cameras, but my goal was to have unique file names so the images could be in the same folder and images shot at the same time would appear next to each other. I use the following for file names - YYYYMMDD-hhmm-NNN-XXX, where Y is year, M is month, D is day, h is hour, m is Minutes, N is sequence number, X is camera or initials. I reset the sequence number to 001 for each new event. You need to make sure the clock is both cameras are in sync.
 
Paul Graber said:
Paul Graber wrote:

My wife and I both download all of our images into LR, and have done for some years. We can always tell who took what by the info on camera, lens etc. However, I'm thinking of replacing our current (same brand but different model) DSLRs with identical Panny G5s. Two problems strike me about how LR is going to react:-

1 We won't be able to figure out who took what, except perhaps by checking on lens used for an image.

2 Both cameras will presumably use identical numbering regimes - so we are likely to have duplicated numbers for different images. (Maybe I should cross-post this in the M43 forum so that someone who knows if a G5 can be tweaked to alter the numbering can answer.)

Can any LR expert throw any light on how to get round this issue? Many thanks.
Click to expand...
 
b2martin_a said:
b2martin_a wrote:

I rename all my images after I get them on the computer - I use Photoshop CS6 and rename them in Bridge, I assume Lightroom will do something similar. My wife and I have different cameras, but my goal was to have unique file names so the images could be in the same folder and images shot at the same time would appear next to each other.
Click to expand...
This can be easily shown in LR (sort by capture date), either mingled together or filtered by camera, with no need to rename anything. While it it possible to rename image files automatically at import time, the specific file name and folder arrangement tends to matter less to a LR user than to a Bridge user - who typically uses these things as the main way to find and manage stuff.

In LR there are many other ways to organise images, which benefit by not requiring any move or change to the image file if something alters organisationally. These methods present multiple, fluid groupings which do not need to follow the physical rules that folders do.

Also there is less need to save separate versions when you can make virtual internal copies (with no separate filename) and less need to distinguish resized copies from the master files they have been made from (since it is common not to have these exported copies present in the Catalog). So the management inside LR may often be found both simpler, and more flexible.
b2martin_a said:
I use the following for file names - YYYYMMDD-hhmm-NNN-XXX, where Y is year, M is month, D is day, h is hour, m is Minutes, N is sequence number, X is camera or initials. I reset the sequence number to 001 for each new event. You need to make sure the clock is both cameras are in sync.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree that it is much easier if the clocks are matched (and timezones consistently set too), however it is relatively easy in LR (probably in Bridge too?) to apply a time correction after the fact if this is not done.
 
suddie1215 said:
suddie1215 wrote:

Its never a good idea to use the camera-generated filename when managing files since most DSLRs tend to reset after 9,999.
Click to expand...
Depends upon how you use the camera-generated file names. When on a trip I place every day's images in a separate folder and I have the camera reset the numbering. And, since I rarely take more than 300 or 400 images in any given day, I don't have a problem with the numbers rolling over.
 
MikeFromMesa said:
MikeFromMesa wrote:
MikeFromMesa said:
suddie1215 wrote:

Its never a good idea to use the camera-generated filename when managing files since most DSLRs tend to reset after 9,999.
Click to expand...
Depends upon how you use the camera-generated file names. When on a trip I place every day's images in a separate folder and I have the camera reset the numbering. And, since I rarely take more than 300 or 400 images in any given day, I don't have a problem with the numbers rolling over.
Click to expand...
If you are using Lightroom to the full, who then cares what the filename is - you don't need it to tell you anything, that cannot be equally or better managed another way. It doesn't need to be unique, even, in the catalog (though of course it does need to be unique within a given folder on disk).

All that really counts are the attributes of the photo, and the content of the photo. The location of the photo on disk is of some interest part of the time, and of absolutely no interest the rest of the time; provided it is not going to change its path or get disconnected.
 

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For your Panny G5 it may read your RAW images if the same as the G6 (the one in the supported list) or any format .jpg. I assume you have a card reader. This is a Win platform product.


You set up some metadata field characters in for a new folder and file name. Included is a job description metadata character and you can get prompted to fill that in before you start the download. There is a separate definition string of metadata characters for files and folders. Include the photographer's initials plus perhaps a subject description in the job description. Other metadata characters available are the date of capture and time of capture from the EXIF data, camera serial number, etc. Best to download the instruction manual.

I have a Canon so I can use the USB connection. For your camera it would require a card reader.

There is a trial version you can use to see if that workflow works for you. Price is about US $30.


I assume you and your wife use separate storage media so label them with the initials of each.

In addition when the storage media is read you will see thumbnails (if embedded in a conforming RAW file) or the .jpgs as thumbnails. You can then select the images to transfer to your pc eliminating undesirable shots and saving pc storage.

Here is the partial list of metadata tokens that can be incorporated into folder or file names:

{a} Abbreviated weekday name e.g. Fri
{A} Full weekday name e.g. Friday
{b} Abbreviated month name e.g. Jun
{B} Full month name e.g. June
{d} Date in the form YYMMDD (equivalent to {y}{m}{D}) e.g. 040611 for June 11, 2004
{D} Day of the month (01 to 31)
{H} Hour (00 to 23)
{I} Hour (01 to 12)
{j} Day of the year (001 to 366)
{m} Month (01 to 12) e.g. 06 for June
{M} Minutes (00 to 59)
{p} am/pm indicator (upper case) e.g. PM
{plc} am/pm indicator (lower case) e.g. pm
{P} Quarter: Jan-Mar=1, Apr-Jun=2, Jul-Sep=3, Oct-Dec=4 e.g. Q{P} gives Q2 for June
{s} Date/time subsecond timing (only available with some
cameras e.g. Nikon DSLRs and recent Canon DSLRs
when using a card reader e.g. 40D and 1DMk3)
e.g. 56
{S} Seconds (00 to 59)
{t} Time in the form HHMMSS (equivalent to {H}{M}{S})
{epoch} Time in seconds since January 1, 1970 (10-digit number) e.g. 1159805283 for 17:08:03 on
Oct 2, 2006
{epoch3
6}
Time in seconds since January 1, 1970 expressed in
base 36 using the characters 0-9 and A-Z (6 character
string)
e.g. J6INHF for 17:08:03 on Oct 2,
2006
{W} Week number (00 to 53)
{x} Date representation for locale e.g. 06_11_04 for June 11, 2004
{X} Time representation for locale e.g. 14_39_29
{y} Year without century e.g. 04 for 2004
{Y} Year with century e.g. 2004
{z} Time zone name e.g. GMT Standard Time
{Z} Time zone offset wrt UTC e.g. +0100 for GMT during DST
{#c} Long date/time representation for locale (IPTC data only) e.g. 29 December 2005 15:34:26
{#x} Long date representation for locale (IPTC data only) e.g. 29 December 2005
{1} Year 'now' in the form YYYY i.e. the download date e.g. 2004
{2} Month 'now' (01 to 12) i.e. the download date
{3} Day 'now' (01 to 31) i.e. the download date
{4} Year 'now' in the form YY i.e. the download date e.g. 04 for 2004

More than you'll ever need.

This list excludes the {J} job description token that you can insert and set preferences to prompt to enter contens. There is also a {T8} and {T9} token for camera name and serial number under preferences pulled from the EXIF if supported as well as the {o} token for the photographer name if applied to the EXIF.


Here's my folder name layout results:

50D 121016 sherburne swans and Canadian Geese

and a filename in it:

IMG_0061 121016 172143 IMG 0061.CR2 (I have to fix the double number) in which I do not duplicate the job description.


I note that you can insert Adobe's DNG Converter into the download/transfer workflow if you wish.

For Windows this utility will also (if selected in preferences) use the capture (EXIF) date-time stamp for the modified and created fields in the Windows file properties, not the date of transfer.

Anyway see if the trial version solves your problems and you can see if the Panny G6 RAW format works or if you are restricted to .jpgs.
 
Not sure about the Panny you are considering but many cameras allow for a user defined prefix to the file names. Set your initials as the prefix and your file names will be unique.
 
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