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New camera for 10-year old?

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If you want to go the interchangeable lens route, I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Olympus E-PL1. You can get it from Cameta right now for $140 (they also get refurbished units for $120). Spending a just little more can get you a more contemporary camera like the E-PM1 or E-PL2.

Then you just need a lens on top of that. An additional $100-120 will get you a basic kit lens from the same vendor. Or buy both at once, I see a refurb E-PL2 kit with 14-42 lens for $260. There are a lot of options.

You'll end up with a better picture taking machine than just about any compact on the market, at half the price of the premium models. Then when you feel comfortable you can start looking at other lens options. If it doesn't work out, you can probably resell it for the same price you bought it for.
 
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tedolf said:
tedolf wrote:
tedolf said:
Lights wrote:

A used manual focus film camera...It will teach her to consider her shots. It will teach her about DOF control. It will teach her to study what it's all about...when successful a great feeling, when not...more study. The anticipation and patience involved...and the time between to consider. This is just my view, I know others will disagree.

Other than that I'd say a ZX1...199.00 on Amazon.
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I wouls suggest the XZ-1.

It is a great camera, best deal in compact cameras at the moment.

It offers full manual controls making it a great learning tool without having to worry about interchangeable lenses.




$200 on Amazon
 
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Roelandt said:
Roelandt wrote:

Hi all,

I have been lurking for quite some time, soaking up the combined wisdom in the hope of honing my skills a bit more.

But when we went out foto-hunting for mushrooms in the nearby woods, a couple of weeks ago, my 10-year old daughter grabbed my slr (450D + 50 1.8) and shot some really nice things. Like, I'm thinking she ha a better eye than I do.

So her current Oly p&s simply won't do anymore. But she finds the slr too heavy. No surprise given the grip and double batteries, even with the 50 mounted.

Reading made we wonder whether a m43 might be something for her: light first and foremost but with enough quality to see where she might go with this.

My current thinking is to try and find a Oly E-PL2 with the type II kit-lens: full auto possible, on-board flash, but no touchscreen and no viewfinder. Then again, these youngsters take to iPads like fish in water....

What would think or advise me? Any models I've missed? What would be a nice camera for her? Would m43 fit? Or stick to things like a Canon G?
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Using the insight of hindsight I can look back to my early photographic days and the influence of my father and grandmother, both of whom were keen photographers. My grandmother gave me my first Kodak Box Brownie in 1957 and showed me how to use it. She knew I was an inquisitive kid, so trusted me to discover how to get the best from it. Even today my favourite word is 'why' closely followed by 'how'.

My father only ever used a fixed focal length rangefinder camera, and turned a blind eye every time I borrowed it. It was only as a teenager that I discovered the photographic flexibility of interchangeable lens cameras with my first film SLR.

What you buy for your daughter depends on her photographic interests and desires. If you buy her an interchangeable lens camera she may be put off photography by the seeming complexity and cost of it all. In which case a small quality compact such as an Olympus XZ1 or Panasonic LX7 may be better for her. We don't know either your daughter or your budget!

Both my daughters are very intelligent and inquisitive girls - attributes they get from their mother. As teenagers I bought them simple point and shoot film cameras, and now when my elder daughter wants to borrow one of my cameras for holiday/vacation snaps she invariably selects my Panasonic TZ7 (ZS3) as it is small, light, and has a versatile zoom range with an excellent Leica lens. She only ever prints at small sizes or views images on screen or on the web, so it is more than good enough for her. And this is a girl with a first class Honours degree from a leading Canadian university!

My wife probably has a better photographic eye than I do, yet she is perfectly content to stay with her Canon Digital Ixus, despite her comments as to the better image quality that comes from my cameras. She only ever shows her images on theTV and had a Scottish mother , which makes her unwilling to spend money freely if you believe in racial stereotypes.
 
I have an E-PL1, and while it has good IQ and perfectly usable for someone who is interested in photography, I'd advise against it for a 10 year old.

Instead, get a used GF1 - they might be a bit more expensive at around $250, but shutter and aperture settings are quickly accessible.

A learner's camera should handle like a camera instead of like a computer - having to fiddle with direction buttons to get at these settings is a distraction. It might even make the process too frustrating for a kid - at this stage you probably want to keep the interest high instead of letting things get in the way.

Another good learner's camera is a used D70 you can get for $120. It's not m4/3, but the way it can be controlled is infinitely better than an E-PL1.
Klarno said:
Klarno wrote:

If you want to go the interchangeable lens route, I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Olympus E-PL1. You can get it from Cameta right now for $140 (they also get refurbished units for $120). Spending a just little more can get you a more contemporary camera like the E-PM1 or E-PL2.

Then you just need a lens on top of that. An additional $100-120 will get you a basic kit lens from the same vendor. Or buy both at once, I see a refurb E-PL2 kit with 14-42 lens for $260. There are a lot of options.

You'll end up with a better picture taking machine than just about any compact on the market, at half the price of the premium models. Then when you feel comfortable you can start looking at other lens options. If it doesn't work out, you can probably resell it for the same price you bought it for.

--
http://www.photoklarno.com
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rrr_hhh said:
rrr_hhh wrote:
rrr_hhh said:
Kuppenbender wrote:
rrr_hhh said:
rrr_hhh wrote:
rrr_hhh said:
Kuppenbender wrote:

That deal on an Olympus ep1 sounds too good to pass up. At double the price the Panasonic G3 may have lost the best-bang-for-the-buck crown, but functionally I'd say the built-in viewfinder and articulating screen make it the better choice for a ten year-old.
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The only mft camera one should really avoid is the E-P1 ! at here is a reason why they cost so much less :
  • They are slow to focus, especially with the first 14-42mm kitzoom they come with,
  • They have a low fps,
  • They have a bad LCD, which is almost impossible to use in bright sun,
  • Yet, they lacks the accessory plug which would allow you to use an E-VF,
  • The button layout is not as good as on the later model.
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wy2lam said:
wy2lam wrote:

I have an E-PL1, and while it has good IQ and perfectly usable for someone who is interested in photography, I'd advise against it for a 10 year old.

Instead, get a used GF1 - they might be a bit more expensive at around $250, but shutter and aperture settings are quickly accessible.

A learner's camera should handle like a camera instead of like a computer - having to fiddle with direction buttons to get at these settings is a distraction. It might even make the process too frustrating for a kid - at this stage you probably want to keep the interest high instead of letting things get in the way.

Another good learner's camera is a used D70 you can get for $120. It's not m4/3, but the way it can be controlled is infinitely better than an E-PL1.
wy2lam said:
Klarno wrote:

If you want to go the interchangeable lens route, I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Olympus E-PL1. You can get it from Cameta right now for $140 (they also get refurbished units for $120). Spending a just little more can get you a more contemporary camera like the E-PM1 or E-PL2.

Then you just need a lens on top of that. An additional $100-120 will get you a basic kit lens from the same vendor. Or buy both at once, I see a refurb E-PL2 kit with 14-42 lens for $260. There are a lot of options.

You'll end up with a better picture taking machine than just about any compact on the market, at half the price of the premium models. Then when you feel comfortable you can start looking at other lens options. If it doesn't work out, you can probably resell it for the same price you bought it for.

--
http://www.photoklarno.com
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With a manual lens, you really don't need to click any buttons at all.

399372




Tedolph
 
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tedolf said:
tedolf wrote:
tedolf said:
wy2lam wrote:

I have an E-PL1, and while it has good IQ and perfectly usable for someone who is interested in photography, I'd advise against it for a 10 year old.

Instead, get a used GF1 - they might be a bit more expensive at around $250, but shutter and aperture settings are quickly accessible.

A learner's camera should handle like a camera instead of like a computer - having to fiddle with direction buttons to get at these settings is a distraction. It might even make the process too frustrating for a kid - at this stage you probably want to keep the interest high instead of letting things get in the way.

Another good learner's camera is a used D70 you can get for $120. It's not m4/3, but the way it can be controlled is infinitely better than an E-PL1.
tedolf said:
Klarno wrote:

If you want to go the interchangeable lens route, I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Olympus E-PL1. You can get it from Cameta right now for $140 (they also get refurbished units for $120). Spending a just little more can get you a more contemporary camera like the E-PM1 or E-PL2.

Then you just need a lens on top of that. An additional $100-120 will get you a basic kit lens from the same vendor. Or buy both at once, I see a refurb E-PL2 kit with 14-42 lens for $260. There are a lot of options.

You'll end up with a better picture taking machine than just about any compact on the market, at half the price of the premium models. Then when you feel comfortable you can start looking at other lens options. If it doesn't work out, you can probably resell it for the same price you bought it for.

--
http://www.photoklarno.com
Click to expand...
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With a manual lens, you really don't need to click any buttons at all.

399372


Tedolph
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Only operates well in Av mode. For full manual mode, or EC, or ISO, the shutter speed still needs to be controlled through fiddling with buttons like operating a computer. It would be best if the camera can be operated like a digital K-1000: direct control on aperture and shutter (for a digicam, while offering quick access to ISO and EC controls).

Old, used DSLRs are a cheap option, so is an old GF1 (albeit the lack of a finder makes it impossible to properly brace a camera). Of course, if you can afford it, a digital body with direct shutter dial is also good, like a X100.

The E-PL1 is good if you want something cheap - as long as your 10 year old does not bump the camera around or drop it, they'll be ready for a non-crippled camera - how about your backup body? How about your previous digital body?

Sometimes bargains can be found. My daughter is using a 4MP, fixed focal length Samsung P&S that takes real SD cards and with a flash. She's 2 years old and the camera cost us $5 brand new. We're all having fun.
 
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wy2lam said:
wy2lam wrote:
wy2lam said:
tedolf wrote:
wy2lam said:
wy2lam wrote:

I have an E-PL1, and while it has good IQ and perfectly usable for someone who is interested in photography, I'd advise against it for a 10 year old.

Instead, get a used GF1 - they might be a bit more expensive at around $250, but shutter and aperture settings are quickly accessible.

A learner's camera should handle like a camera instead of like a computer - having to fiddle with direction buttons to get at these settings is a distraction. It might even make the process too frustrating for a kid - at this stage you probably want to keep the interest high instead of letting things get in the way.

Another good learner's camera is a used D70 you can get for $120. It's not m4/3, but the way it can be controlled is infinitely better than an E-PL1.
wy2lam said:
Klarno wrote:

If you want to go the interchangeable lens route, I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Olympus E-PL1. You can get it from Cameta right now for $140 (they also get refurbished units for $120). Spending a just little more can get you a more contemporary camera like the E-PM1 or E-PL2.

Then you just need a lens on top of that. An additional $100-120 will get you a basic kit lens from the same vendor. Or buy both at once, I see a refurb E-PL2 kit with 14-42 lens for $260. There are a lot of options.

You'll end up with a better picture taking machine than just about any compact on the market, at half the price of the premium models. Then when you feel comfortable you can start looking at other lens options. If it doesn't work out, you can probably resell it for the same price you bought it for.

--
http://www.photoklarno.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
With a manual lens, you really don't need to click any buttons at all.

399372


Tedolph
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I have never understood this argument. I you are in P mode (which works like A with a manual lens) you are relying on auto exposure. It's not like it is going to be off by more than one stop-two button presses at most! Most of the time exposure is going to be spot on and no button pressing needed. In M, you set a reasonable shutter speed and then turn the aperute dial while watching the meter-no button pushing needed. If you want, set ISO to auto. Again, how far off is the meter going to be, one F stop?


wy2lam said:
Old, used DSLRs are a cheap option, so is an old GF1 (albeit the lack of a finder makes it impossible to properly brace a camera). Of course, if you can afford it, a digital body with direct shutter dial is also good, like a X100.
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Epl1 has IBIS for the manual lens-GF-1 doesn't.




wy2lam said:
The E-PL1 is good if you want something cheap - as long as your 10 year old does not bump the camera around or drop it, they'll be ready for a non-crippled camera - how about your backup body? How about your previous digital body?
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Huh?



Why does a ten year old need a backup body?


wy2lam said:
Sometimes bargains can be found. My daughter is using a 4MP, fixed focal length Samsung P&S that takes real SD cards and with a flash. She's 2 years old and the camera cost us $5 brand new. We're all having fun.
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now $5.00 I approve!

edolph
 
A few weeks ago I saw a E-PM1 including 14-42 for 199 Euro. I think that would be good for your daughter.
 
tedolf said:
tedolf wrote:

I have never understood this argument. I you are in P mode (which works like A with a manual lens) you are relying on auto exposure. It's not like it is going to be off by more than one stop-two button presses at most! Most of the time exposure is going to be spot on and no button pressing needed. In M, you set a reasonable shutter speed and then turn the aperute dial while watching the meter-no button pushing needed. If you want, set ISO to auto. Again, how far off is the meter going to be, one F stop?
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"In M, you set a reasonable shutter speed". It's where the button fiddling I'm talking about. How many F stops it is not going to matter. A quick way to control the shutter does not distract the eye from the scene.


tedolf said:
tedolf said:
Old, used DSLRs are a cheap option, so is an old GF1 (albeit the lack of a finder makes it impossible to properly brace a camera). Of course, if you can afford it, a digital body with direct shutter dial is also good, like a X100.
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Epl1 has IBIS for the manual lens-GF-1 doesn't.
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Part of learning how to shoot is to learn how to hold a camera steady. In this regard I consider stabilization a minus. It hides the relationship between movement and shutter speed behind magic. It ties the learning experience to an arbitrary implementation of IS. Stabilisation is a very useful tool once you've got past the basics - but I believe it skews basic photographic concepts when introduced right from the beginning.

Of course, to each their own.


tedolf said:
tedolf said:
The E-PL1 is good if you want something cheap - as long as your 10 year old does not bump the camera around or drop it, they'll be ready for a non-crippled camera - how about your backup body? How about your previous digital body?
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Huh?

Why does a ten year old need a backup body?
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I'm saying, let them use *your* backup body. Cost does not matter. Heck, I'd let a 10 years old that I trust use my *main* camera body. That the camera being cheap ceases to be a factor when the learner gets past the stage of throwing things around and dropping them. 9 years old sounds about right.

I'm just holding the opinion that people should generally place more trust in our kids to not do wacky things.


tedolf said:
tedolf said:
Sometimes bargains can be found. My daughter is using a 4MP, fixed focal length Samsung P&S that takes real SD cards and with a flash. She's 2 years old and the camera cost us $5 brand new. We're all having fun.
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now $5.00 I approve!
Click to expand...
:)
 
Personality matters. I run a high school photo club with 13-18 year old students. Some of my kids gravitate toward big cameras because it makes them feel serious and artistic. The most requested camera in the club is an E-1 with vertical battery grip attached. But remember these are photo club kids, so they are pretty much ready to dive in and experience something novel. Their cell phone cameras are no longer a novelty. Using a cell camera is a tool and lifestyle. They take pictures of homework assignments on the board, share pictures on FB...

In my experience, adults get more freaked out by using "real" cameras than kids do. Sure, I have some kids that are timid and just want a simple camera, but that's a minority imo.

So I think it depends on her personality. If she is adventurous and inquisitive and likes to dive in, then a full featured system camera would be great. Especially if she is intrigued by technology and not put off by it at all. It would grow with her. I've been recommending the G3 lately. It's a bargain imo and would do well as a first camera. Not too expensive, but with a recent sensor, good autofocus, touch/flip screen, EVF, video and smallish body.

If she is hesitant with new things, the ZX1 is a great deal without being too limiting in controls.

Best,

Seth
 
I have a 9-year old daughter, and ones in a while she is interested in photography. The Olympus Pen's are about the right size for her hand, and she likes to shoot with ep3 and 17mm f2.8 lens - small and handy. The longer and larger lenses are still a bit too demanding.


For you, for the same purpose the Canon EOS M would be quite a good choise: ability to use all your lenses, small size, works as a backup body and a travel camera for you... Size and easiness mean everything!


Anyway, as far as she takes the camera out with her friends, I'd like to give her something simpler. Right now we have an old Ricoh ps, and it has survived quite a lot, but I'm thinking about Oly TG-1 - it would also be a great camera on beaches and swimming pools etc, filling some potographic needs that way. Besides water, it can survive from drops, hits and cold...


Cheers!


Jouko

'The best camera in the world is the one you have with you when you need it'

lehtokukka.smugmug.com

Kuva-Lehto & Lehtokukka photography

Lehtokukka on pieni, henkilökohtaisesti palveleva Nokialla toimiva valokuvausyritys. Pääasiassa teemme muoto- ja lapsikuvauksia sekä perhejuhlien kuvauksia. Lehtokukka is a small, personally serving photography company, working at Noki
lehtokukka.smugmug.com lehtokukka.smugmug.com
 
This pic reminds me of a webvideo of kid baffled by a regular magazine as it does not scroll and the pictures didn't open larger when being 'tapped'.....

But it does show the young's natural aptitude to learn for more quickly than us 'older folk' do.
 
Brilliant thread. So many different opinions, we are an intereseting species for our differences. I hope we are going to get the end of the story.
 
All those different opinions aren't making my lige any easier..?

And to make matters a bit worse: we spent last wekeend in Paris touring the usual tourist traps and paying Mickey Mouse a visit. When up on the first deck of the Eiffel tower the eldest grabbed my 450D and started shooting. Nothing decent this time due to foggy weather, but she found the weight bearable. She won't lug one around for a whole day though.... Even when I left the grip at home.

Disneyland was marred by daylong drizzle so the camera's stayed in the car and we made do with a cheapo P&S and phonecamera's.

The funny thing was, though, while waiting for the closing spectacle (brilliant this time!) I was toying with my Samsung Galaxy S2 to try and get a shot of the castle all lit up. She practically snatched the thing from my hands and 'dug in': it took her about 40 shots, but finally she got the hang of stabelising it on a lamppost and got some decent pics. Nothing to brag about, but she showed perseverance..



to her new tool: I've been looking at some used items, since it wouldn't 'hurt' so much if she accidentally broke that one.

Currently my shortlist is something like this:
  • Oly XZ-1 (white, brand new): € 170
  • Oly E-PL2, 14-42 II: € 250 - 300, refurbs a bit less
  • Pana G1: € 200
  • Pana G2 : € 300
  • Pana GF2: € 200
The XZ-1 seems a steal but is 'only' a P&S. The Pana's seem to be a bit less pocketable and the reviews find the jpeg-output a bit behind Olympus. Articulating LCD's are a bonus though.

I'm slowly gravitating towards the E-PL2, mainly because of IBIS. I know it's no magical helper, but it won't hurt her.


So the story continues....


"Please tune in next time, when you'll hear doctor Bob say: ......."
 

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Roelandt said:
Roelandt wrote:

All those different opinions aren't making my lige any easier..?

And to make matters a bit worse: we spent last wekeend in Paris touring the usual tourist traps and paying Mickey Mouse a visit. When up on the first deck of the Eiffel tower the eldest grabbed my 450D and started shooting. Nothing decent this time due to foggy weather, but she found the weight bearable. She won't lug one around for a whole day though.... Even when I left the grip at home.

Disneyland was marred by daylong drizzle so the camera's stayed in the car and we made do with a cheapo P&S and phonecamera's.

The funny thing was, though, while waiting for the closing spectacle (brilliant this time!) I was toying with my Samsung Galaxy S2 to try and get a shot of the castle all lit up. She practically snatched the thing from my hands and 'dug in': it took her about 40 shots, but finally she got the hang of stabelising it on a lamppost and got some decent pics. Nothing to brag about, but she showed perseverance..



to her new tool: I've been looking at some used items, since it wouldn't 'hurt' so much if she accidentally broke that one.

Currently my shortlist is something like this:
  • Oly XZ-1 (white, brand new): € 170
  • Oly E-PL2, 14-42 II: € 250 - 300, refurbs a bit less
  • Pana G1: € 200
  • Pana G2 : € 300
  • Pana GF2: € 200
The XZ-1 seems a steal but is 'only' a P&S. The Pana's seem to be a bit less pocketable and the reviews find the jpeg-output a bit behind Olympus. Articulating LCD's are a bonus though.

I'm slowly gravitating towards the E-PL2, mainly because of IBIS. I know it's no magical helper, but it won't hurt her.

So the story continues....

"Please tune in next time, when you'll hear doctor Bob say: ......."
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Get her the E-pl2 and a legacy rangefinder 50mm.

She will have a ball and learn a ton!

I watched my own daughter go through this transition at 16. Years with a Nikon point n shoot prior to that. She took my E-pl1 and the learning curve was incredibly fast. Within three months she was shooting a wedding!

It was a combination of the IQ mesmerizing her, and the instantaneous feedback loop of seeing the Live View photo as she changes settings. This rapidly accelerates the leaning curve. The E-pl1/2 is perfect for this.

Tedolph

Tedolh
 
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I suggest you get a new Canon APS-C body/kit lens for her, or give her the 450D and get the new one for yourself. Any of the 450D's successors.


I think it would make sense because you have the lenses. I think having the same size sensor would help too, so any given focal length is the same on both.


Similarly I've kept my 350D to pass on to my daughter, it's simple with no frills, a good starter camera in my opinion.

That's not to say a MFT camera would be suitable, I just think it would be an advantage to both use the same system.
 
vin 13 said:
vin 13 wrote:

I suggest you get a new Canon APS-C body/kit lens for her, or give her the 450D and get the new one for yourself. Any of the 450D's successors.

I think it would make sense because you have the lenses. I think having the same size sensor would help too, so any given focal length is the same on both.

Similarly I've kept my 350D to pass on to my daughter, it's simple with no frills, a good starter camera in my opinion.

That's not to say a MFT camera would be suitable, I just think it would be an advantage to both use the same system.
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That should be 'wouldn't be suitable'!
 
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