d800 worth +1400$ over the 5dm2 ?

I think the D800 is a lot better than the 5d mkII. It's by far the better tool. But I doubt it will make you any more money. Maybe it will make you the same money with less effort invested though.

Either way, the clients will never know, they won't see any difference, they won't care and they might never look at any of the things where the images differ. So, it really is all up to you =)

"Is it better?" and "is it worth $1400 more?" are very subjective questions. What are the advantages:

• Higher megapixels. Do you really need 36MP? What are you going to do with it? Do you plan on regularly printing 30x45" prints that you expect people to walk up to and analyze from a couple inches away... that's where you'll see the advantage of 36MP. Keep in mind this means bigger files and you'll burn through hard drive space and memory cards a lot more quickly. If you don't plan on printing huge or cropping out a ton of your shots, 36MP will mostly just end up wasting storage space. 21MP is plenty big for most use.
• Better high ISO, probably has an extra stop or so of useable ISO, but the Mk II already has a couple stops more than the 450D. So yes the D800 is better, but how much do you need? Will the Mk II be "good enough" is the question you need to ask.
• Dynamic range keep in mind even your 450d has more dynamic range than you can put in a print or on a screen (without making it look flat or having to do some HDR type manipulation), it just gives you more room to recover screw ups, or do HDR type manipulations. How much do you need? If you need every bit you can, the D800 has a touch over stop advantage over the Mk II.
• More advanced AF. It depends on how you use it. 51 points is nice, but if you only use the center point and focus and recompose, the 5D Mk II has a really great center point focus that is very accurate and fast even in low light. Some people feel 51 points is too complex, some people won't live without it.
• Pop up flash. Now if you're someone who says "I'd never use a pop up flash" it may still be useful as a commander for an of camera flash. Nikon can wireless TTL several other speed lights using the pop-up flash. It's nice and it keeps your camera small and light. You can still do this with the 5D, but you need a flash or ST-E2 commander on the camera to control the off camera flashes. Some people also find it useful to have to just add a touch of fill light when they don't have their full kit with them.

The Mk II is a great deal now because it is a very good camera and people have been shooting weddings with them very successfully for the past several years. Of course it's older and everyone wants something new and better, and the D800 has some nice options, is it worth $1,400 it depends on who you ask. If you don't need the "best" or the "latest and greatest" it can be a camera that does what you need for a reasonable price. Keep in mind 2 years there may well be a 5D Mk IV or D900 that everyone is clamoring over, maybe then your business will be doing well and you'll want to upgrade.

One other option I'll throw out there. If I was looking for a middle of the road compromise between the D800 and the 5D Mk II, I'd probably look at the Nikon D600 instead of the Canon 6D. It seems to have specs that are better suited for your needs, the only real downside is the 1/4000th max shutter. At f/2.8 that will still give you'll 1/3200th in sunny light (sunny 16 rule) for proper exposure, but if you like to shoot at f/2.8 and under expose the ambient and fill with HSS flash, you'd need an ND filter on the lens (which isn't the end of the world).

sotirius said:

sotirius wrote:

Hi,

I shoot birthdays and other occasions with a Canon 450d+18-55 IS and a Metz flash. I have been offered by a few people to be their wedding second photographer next year, and would want to get more involved in wedding photography. My current camera gear won't be good enough for this kind of photography, and is also a bit outdated so I would like to upgrade. I know the lenses are important so I would be buying a 24-70 2.8 and 70-200f/2.8 IS/VR and once I do i will be "stuck" with a certain manufacturer. I can pick up a new 5dm2 for 1100$ or a d800 for 2550$. I am not sure if I should consider the d600 as it has 1/4000 only which isn't good enough for a bright sunny day at 2.8. What I need to know is how would the 5dm2 AF behave as a wedding camera. It has the same 9 point outdated auto focus system as my 450d but I'm not sure if it is the very same one. I haven't used my 450d in churches or places where flash isn't permitted so I wouldn't know much about it.
I have compared the noise performance of the 5dm2 and d800 at dxolabs, but I hear they downsample the images to 8MP which means the more megapixels the finer the detail we be, so I will need to hear from some of you guys that have used these cameras, how do they compare in noise performance/IQ/dynamic range.
What draws me to the d800 is that everything is almost better than the 5dm2(according to what i read) and what draws me towards the 5dm2 is the 1400$ price difference which I am willing to look over if the d800 is a twice as good camera. I would like to hear your opinions. Thanks.

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Could you please indicate where the Canon MK 2 is available with price of $1100. I checked a few USA sites and their prices are around $1600 to $1700.

Sorry that I don't have suggestions regarding the two mentioned choices but I have not owned/or used either.

Thank You....

@echelon2004 You have a good point, but I have never used a Nikon so I don't know what I will be missing out on. @kb2zuz Of course I don't plan printing at 36Mp all the time, though it would be useful if the camera had 36Mp just in case. Another reason is when offering my services to a client, it sounds much better to them when you say you have a camera with 36Mp Vs 21Mp.
-ISO- I don't know how much I need, probably a good 3200 or a useful reduced image size at 6400. My 450d allows me to shoot acceptable JPEG images at ISO 400 (however the noise in the shadows area is driving me crazy) and web resolution ISO 800 shot in RAW. I need a wedding photographer to let me know which ISO they find themselves using in low light churches, but most of the local ones won't tell you anything as they fear from competition.
-We all know Canon is the worst at DR, it is impossible to retrieve detail in the shadow's area without introducing large amounts of noise. Also night photography is a bit of a nightmare, as it is hard to fix the blown out highlights-hardly any detail in them. DR isn't a big issue for me as I usually nail the correct exposure in my JPEGS, but it always comes in handy to have a better sensor.
-AF,How sophisticated should it be? I can't comment on that one either, as I haven't used a camera with more than 9 AF points (1 cross type sensor), so I don't know how much I am missing out on. My 450d would struggle badly in low light if it wasn't for the AF light assistance.
As you say, the popup is very handy for situations when you don't have an external flash.

I wouldn't consider the d600(1800$) as it is 650$ less than the d800(2450$), and the 1/4000 would be a deal breaker, at least for me. I have found that even good ND filters reduce image quality, and i would be needing to put them on/off in situations that can't be missed.

I will try to ask a wedding photographer in this forum or anywhere else to tell me, If they think the d800 is a huge improvement over the 5dm2, based on their personal experience. I know it is a better camera, but do they find themselves never using the 5dm2 after the d800(5dm3) came out... That should have been my question(That's the answer I need)



@Vernon D Rainwater I got mine from ebay.com.au I live in Australia and there is this seller selling them by the method of highest bidder. They sell from 1300-1550$ at his store. I was lucky to win it for 1100$. My highest bid was 1200$, but probably i would be selling the camera for some profit and go with the d800.

Thank you all for you input I appreciate it.

The canon wedding shooters feel the 5dIII was made for them. With the frequent availability of it popping up for under 3000USD, why isn't it on your consideration list? I think the resolution of the D800 should be less of a factor than your nighttime concerns around DR. It's only a 27% increase in linear resolution and if you read the reviews, it takes work to achieve that gain, particularly if you're handholding at a wedding.

The first people noted that you probably won't make any more money spending more for the D800/5d3, making the $1100 buy you got on the 5d2 seem like a pretty good plan.

sotirius said:

sotirius wrote:

@echelon2004 You have a good point, but I have never used a Nikon so I don't know what I will be missing out on. @kb2zuz Of course I don't plan printing at 36Mp all the time, though it would be useful if the camera had 36Mp just in case. Another reason is when offering my services to a client, it sounds much better to them when you say you have a camera with 36Mp Vs 21Mp.

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21MP is still impressive, and many people were printing very good quality 20x30" prints from the Mk II.

sotirius said:

-ISO- I don't know how much I need, probably a good 3200 or a useful reduced image size at 6400. My 450d allows me to shoot acceptable JPEG images at ISO 400 (however the noise in the shadows area is driving me crazy) and web resolution ISO 800 shot in RAW. I need a wedding photographer to let me know which ISO they find themselves using in low light churches, but most of the local ones won't tell you anything as they fear from competition.

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If you have wide aperture lenses, if you have a camera that you are comfortable at 1600, you should be good for most situations. Of course there can always be a situation that challenges any camera (you show me a camera that works well at 12,800 ISO and I'll find you a situations where you need 50,000...)

sotirius said:

-We all know Canon is the worst at DR, it is impossible to retrieve detail in the shadow's area without introducing large amounts of noise. Also night photography is a bit of a nightmare, as it is hard to fix the blown out highlights-hardly any detail in them. DR isn't a big issue for me as I usually nail the correct exposure in my JPEGS, but it always comes in handy to have a better sensor.

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Just remember, DR will mean practically nothing if you're shooting JPG. Most of that extra information is lost if you are not shooting RAW. Nikon has an advantage with DR, but there are limits.
Best advice I can give you is to try both systems out if possible. Sometimes if you have a local dealer who also rents cameras, they might work a deal where if you rent a camera and then buy it they will refund the rental cost. Spend some time with them and see what you're comfortable with. Some people also just get very used to the way a Nikon or a Canon is laid out and dislike the way the controls are different.

sotirius said:

sotirius wrote:

@@Vernon D Rainwater I got mine from ebay.com.au I live in Australia and there is this seller selling them by the method of highest bidder. They sell from 1300-1550$ at his store. I was lucky to win it for 1100$. My highest bid was 1200$, but probably i would be selling the camera for some profit and go with the d800.
Thank you all for you input I appreciate it.

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Thanks for your feedback.

sotirius said:

sotirius wrote:

Hi,

I shoot birthdays and other occasions with a Canon 450d+18-55 IS and a Metz flash. I have been offered by a few people to be their wedding second photographer next year, and would want to get more involved in wedding photography. My current camera gear won't be good enough for this kind of photography, and is also a bit outdated so I would like to upgrade. I know the lenses are important so I would be buying a 24-70 2.8 and 70-200f/2.8 IS/VR and once I do i will be "stuck" with a certain manufacturer. I can pick up a new 5dm2 for 1100$ or a d800 for 2550$. I am not sure if I should consider the d600 as it has 1/4000 only which isn't good enough for a bright sunny day at 2.8. What I need to know is how would the 5dm2 AF behave as a wedding camera. It has the same 9 point outdated auto focus system as my 450d but I'm not sure if it is the very same one. I haven't used my 450d in churches or places where flash isn't permitted so I wouldn't know much about it.
I have compared the noise performance of the 5dm2 and d800 at dxolabs, but I hear they downsample the images to 8MP which means the more megapixels the finer the detail we be, so I will need to hear from some of you guys that have used these cameras, how do they compare in noise performance/IQ/dynamic range.
What draws me to the d800 is that everything is almost better than the 5dm2(according to what i read) and what draws me towards the 5dm2 is the 1400$ price difference which I am willing to look over if the d800 is a twice as good camera. I would like to hear your opinions. Thanks.

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We will probably have a D800 very little used for sale, probably less than 1000 actuations. Sadly I see that you are the other side of the world.

jules