The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Yes, just like the other reply I posted before, a gap.

So I'm wondering, if Nikon does figure this out, and starts producing the re-designed or just change anything that is causing all the problems on the D600, will they let us know? If not, how are we suppose to fix our camera? Send it in to repair before the warrant expires?

So far no proof of this issue having a connection to dust or oil and if so I am going to assume that nikon has probably been made well aware of it. As much as they are awre of the left focus issue on the d800, 10 pin issue on d800. Also d7000/d3/d300 and d600 dust/oil issue. If you are worried about it and have the marks send in your camera if it is an issue and see what parts are replaced. Also keep in mind if it is a design flaw, you will never hear about them admiting it but rather doing what nikon does best "silent repairs". One check of Nikon usa's website and no service bulletins at all for d600, d800 or d7000. So they telling us everything is fine? No issues at all? Nothing?

I am at 900+ shutter counts and have 1 dust spot that shows up in very light areas at even f4.5 and no scratches that i see on that lower plate. I am going to leave it alone for now. Will clean the sensor if and when it becomes a real issue. Also will not send in the camera unless one day the scratches start to actually show up and also impact my images and at that point it may be upgrade time anyway. I am just not going to go nuts trying to sort this out unless it keeps me from doing my job with this camera. I also dont want my camera taken apart and sent back to me unless it is the last option I have. The camera is taking amazing images and that is all I need. Not going to go crazy over any of this.

After 660 shots, I checked my D600 and sure enough I also have scratch mentioned. I shot at F18,20,22 and see only three oil spots on top left. I've not seen any IQ degredation shooting between f1.8-f12 so Im not going to worry about it or should I? I purchased from Amazon and my 30-day window to return will be up next Tuesday.

NikonShoot3r said:

bocajrs wrote:




After 660 shots, I checked my D600 and sure enough I also have scratch mentioned. I shot at F18,20,22 and see only three oil spots on top left. I've not seen any IQ degredation shooting between f1.8-f12 so Im not going to worry about it or should I? I purchased from Amazon and my 30-day window to return will be up next Tuesday.

Click to expand...

Mine has very very very very faint marks along that edge too but they are actually not even noticeable unless you really look for them. You can send it in but please keep in mind you will end up with probably a camera that has the same thing more or less and lets not forget you may end up with a more dirty sensor. I personally would leave this alone. I know some people want to send the camera in because of this but to me it is asking for trouble. You may be without your camera for a long time and add to that the repair history on these forums for nikon is questionable at best. I say if it works and takes amazing photos to wait it out. I don’t see this issue as an end all be all and am waiting to see what nikon does for the people that sent the camera in and only time will tell if the "repair" will actually cause other long term issues.

Nikonfan99 said:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

Nikonfan99 said:

bocajrs wrote:




After 660 shots, I checked my D600 and sure enough I also have scratch mentioned. I shot at F18,20,22 and see only three oil spots on top left. I've not seen any IQ degredation shooting between f1.8-f12 so Im not going to worry about it or should I? I purchased from Amazon and my 30-day window to return will be up next Tuesday.

Click to expand...

Mine has very very very very faint marks along that edge too but they are actually not even noticeable unless you really look for them. You can send it in but please keep in mind you will end up with probably a camera that has the same thing more or less and lets not forget you may end up with a more dirty sensor. I personally would leave this alone. I know some people want to send the camera in because of this but to me it is asking for trouble. You may be without your camera for a long time and add to that the repair history on these forums for nikon is questionable at best. I say if it works and takes amazing photos to wait it out. I don’t see this issue as an end all be all and am waiting to see what nikon does for the people that sent the camera in and only time will tell if the "repair" will actually cause other long term issues.

Click to expand...

Yeah, after careful consideration & reading this thread more closely, I dont plan on sending it in. As you've stated, the marks on mine are also very very faint and im not seeing IQ degredation at this time.

NikonShoot3r said:

bocajrs wrote:

NikonShoot3r said:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

NikonShoot3r said:

bocajrs wrote:




After 660 shots, I checked my D600 and sure enough I also have scratch mentioned. I shot at F18,20,22 and see only three oil spots on top left. I've not seen any IQ degredation shooting between f1.8-f12 so Im not going to worry about it or should I? I purchased from Amazon and my 30-day window to return will be up next Tuesday.

Click to expand...

Mine has very very very very faint marks along that edge too but they are actually not even noticeable unless you really look for them. You can send it in but please keep in mind you will end up with probably a camera that has the same thing more or less and lets not forget you may end up with a more dirty sensor. I personally would leave this alone. I know some people want to send the camera in because of this but to me it is asking for trouble. You may be without your camera for a long time and add to that the repair history on these forums for nikon is questionable at best. I say if it works and takes amazing photos to wait it out. I don’t see this issue as an end all be all and am waiting to see what nikon does for the people that sent the camera in and only time will tell if the "repair" will actually cause other long term issues.

Click to expand...

Yeah, after careful consideration & reading this thread more closely, I dont plan on sending it in. As you've stated, the marks on mine are also very very faint and im not seeing IQ degredation at this time.

Click to expand...

was just reading a blog post where this guy called nikon and they said they don’t have a known issue and deal with things on a case by case basis.....shocker huh? I have been saying this over and over. Also under the comments the reference is made that the cameras sent in had same issue repeat again. Here is the link:

http://thecoog.wordpress.com/2012/1...nikonusa-needs-to-address-the-issue/#comments

This is the D7000 dust/oil issue repeated. They may or may not replace anything and at the end you may still have the issue come back as this is a design flaw not just one faulty part. It is an overall design of the mirror box dating back to many models having dust issues. One day Nikon will find a way to resolve this in future designs but until that time, you are going to have this issue show up for a lot of people AT SOME POINT.

Indeed, the lens rental article is worth the read. Thanks for sharing.

Those gaps sound potentially menacing, but only Nikon knows, if they know. .... As I have been reading about this dust / oil spot issue, something else occurred to me - chassis flex. I'm not saying this is in anyway real, but a musing. The front plate is polycarbonate. If that front plate is a structural piece of the camera and if the forces of the shutter and mirror are causing some kind of flex in side of the camera, perhaps that may be causing some unintended friction that is generating the dust. BUT, this is noting more than pure speculation. This could be nothing more than hogwash.

With regard to this dust issue, it seems that something is going on with this camera that disconcerting to say the least. And, the problem appears to require regular attention to keep from spoiling photos. That is disappointing that we should have to be so attentive to the camera, but it begs the question: "Is the camera reliable and will it last a reasonable period of time?" If the answer to the question is yes, then can we live with the problem? ..... Your thoughts?

thejohnnerparty said:

thejohnnerparty wrote:

With regard to this dust issue, it seems that something is going on with this camera that disconcerting to say the least. And, the problem appears to require regular attention to keep from spoiling photos. That is disappointing that we should have to be so attentive to the camera, but it begs the question: "Is the camera reliable and will it last a reasonable period of time?" If the answer to the question is yes, then can we live with the problem? ..... Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

+1. That really is the question in a nutshell. There appears to be variation in the number of shots taken before the sensor once again has spots on it and also in the type and size of the spotting. I think the tolerance level of the users will be determinned by their application; socker dad, professional portrait and event photographer, or landscape artist etc., and their willingness to monitor and fix the spotting in post processing. Honestly I don't think anyone shooting professionally will touch the D600 until the problem is eliminated completely. Who wants to spend time monitoring and spotting images when they could be out making money instead. I may be wrong.

Thank-you for asking the question. I'm very interesting in hearing peoples honest opinions based on their own needs and expectations.

In that case, no professional would buy the D800 or D800e with all the focus problems either. I think professionals will be busy shooting & enjoying the wonderful files this camera produces. Cleaning their sensors when needed instead of sitting at home staring at the inside of the their camera or taking pictures of white walls to sees if they have a spot or not.

We have people speculating that the shutter can cause enough torque to twist the poly-carbonet structure? Like this is the first camera made from these materials. I can't tell if this is a gear forum or a mental ward...

Prairie Pal said:

Prairie Pal wrote:

Prairie Pal said:

thejohnnerparty wrote:

With regard to this dust issue, it seems that something is going on with this camera that disconcerting to say the least. And, the problem appears to require regular attention to keep from spoiling photos. That is disappointing that we should have to be so attentive to the camera, but it begs the question: "Is the camera reliable and will it last a reasonable period of time?" If the answer to the question is yes, then can we live with the problem? ..... Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

+1. That really is the question in a nutshell. There appears to be variation in the number of shots taken before the sensor once again has spots on it and also in the type and size of the spotting. I think the tolerance level of the users will be determinned by their application; socker dad, professional portrait and event photographer, or landscape artist etc., and their willingness to monitor and fix the spotting in post processing. Honestly I don't think anyone shooting professionally will touch the D600 until the problem is eliminated completely. Who wants to spend time monitoring and spotting images when they could be out making money instead. I may be wrong.

Thank-you for asking the question. I'm very interesting in hearing peoples honest opinions based on their own needs and expectations.

Click to expand...

"Honestly I don't think anyone shooting professionally will touch the D600 until the problem is eliminated completely"

Prairie, I actually feel the complete opposite. I think most of the people that shoot professionally (like myself) are not upset to have to clean a sensor often and have already either became comfortable with doing it or will be more open to learning it. It is the people that shoot JPEG and don’t want to spend time in front of the computer editing (which we pros have to do already) that are more prone to complain.

As a pro this camera offers me:

-The benefit of having smaller files (less storage space required compared to the d800) is important when shooting a wedding (think 1000-1700 images per event)

-Has no left focus issue like the d800

-24 mega pix for cropping when needed

-Amazing DR

-Amazing high ISO for low light weddings

-FX that can use the old nikon glass

So all in all if you need this camera you will buy it and clean it if the need comes up.

Now I honestly think the pros are the ones that respond here with things like "clean your sensor big deal". Most of them have been using cameras that are dust prone so this is nothing new to them. Also to me this camera is paid for in one event and I usually change cameras every 1-2 years so by the time this issue is fixed fully it will be time to upgrade again.

mrjpack said:

mrjpack wrote:

In that case, no professional would buy the D800 or D800e with all the focus problems either. I think professionals will be busy shooting & enjoying the wonderful files this camera produces. Cleaning their sensors when needed instead of sitting at home staring at the inside of the their camera or taking pictures of white walls to sees if they have a spot or not.

We have people speculating that the shutter can cause enough torque to twist the poly-carbonet structure? Like this is the first camera made from these materials. I can't tell if this is a gear forum or a mental ward...

Click to expand...

Thank you this is just what I said.

Nikonfan99 said:

Nikonfan99 wrote:
Now I honestly think the pros are the ones that respond here with things like "clean your sensor big deal". Most of them have been using cameras that are dust prone so this is nothing new to them. Also to me this camera is paid for in one event and I usually change cameras every 1-2 years so by the time this issue is fixed fully it will be time to upgrade again.

Click to expand...

Just so I understand you correctly let me ask you to answer this truthfully.

1. Suppose you owned and were about to use the D600 and you were aware of its spotting issue, would you check and clean the sensor before each job?
2. Would you be happy with cleaning/rechecking/cleaning/rechecking before you start that job?
3. During the job would you feel the need to take a precaution by chimping for spots on your sensor, and if you saw spots appearing on the face or other critical areas would you stop and go through the whole cleaning routine again while the client waited?
4. How much time do you think is reasonable to spend patching a spot where it falls on a difficult texture?
5. Why are you so passionate to minimize discussion about this problem? How do you or anyone else benefit from keeping the truth from people who definately do not wish to be continously cleaning and spotting and who appreciate the opportunity to navigtate away from such issues? EDIT...I should add that I think these "issue" threads contain alot of unsubstantiated rumors and rearfull speculation and we should stick to only well documented facts and pictures.

Prairie Pal said:

Prairie Pal wrote:

Prairie Pal said:

Nikonfan99 wrote:
Now I honestly think the pros are the ones that respond here with things like "clean your sensor big deal". Most of them have been using cameras that are dust prone so this is nothing new to them. Also to me this camera is paid for in one event and I usually change cameras every 1-2 years so by the time this issue is fixed fully it will be time to upgrade again.

Click to expand...

Just so I understand you correctly let me ask you to answer this truthfully.

1. Suppose you owned and were about to use the D600 and you were aware of its spotting issue, would you check and clean the sensor before each job?
2. Would you be happy with cleaning/rechecking/cleaning/rechecking before you start that job?
3. During the job would you feel the need to take a precaution by chimping for spots on your sensor, and if you saw spots appearing on the face or other critical areas would you stop and go through the whole cleaning routine again while the client waited?
4. How much time do you think is reasonable to spend patching a spot where it falls on a difficult texture?
5. Why are you so passionate to minimize discussion about this problem? How do you or anyone else benefit from keeping the truth from people who definately do not wish to be continously cleaning and spotting and who appreciate the opportunity to navigtate away from such issues? EDIT...I should add that I think these "issue" threads contain alot of unsubstantiated rumors and rearfull speculation and we should stick to only well documented facts and pictures.

Click to expand...

1. I actually always check my equipment prior to a shoot. This is what most pros do. I have now had this camera for over a month and still have the same three spots that showed up. Only one spot shows up below f16 and is very faint at f5 and shows up in a solid light colored spot top left only. I just did a 300 image shoot and the spot could not be found under the closest inspection. Camera is at 900+ shots and still same three spots.

2. I don’t think that this is to this extent. You clean the sensor and check as I often did even with my d7000 which is a dust/oil magnet. That has dust too you know but as a wedding photographer I am usually shooting 2.8-f8 and using a b+w ND filters when it is really bright out and to add contrast so it drops my F stop anyway.

3. I think as a pro you would not ask this question. What would be on your sensor as a pro to make you stop a shoot? A DIME SIZE SPOT?

4.Well first off I have 1 spot that is of any concern and that has already proven not to show up on skin and that is before it is even cleaned. Secondly as a wedding pro, I spend more time fixing bad skin and yellow teeth/eyes on the shots that matter that one spot that is not even a concern is no issue to me.

5.Well I am actually fascinated with some peoples concerns with this issue. I honestly feel that this camera is the first semi affordable FF camera and that is bringing a whole new crowd of people to the scene and with this crowd comes people that don’t know or understand full frame or this issue. You are dealing with a bigger sensor and probably a whole new design put into a d7000 body. The issue of dust is something that a lot of pros have dealt with for a long time and when you move from a d40, d60, d80 or d90 to a d600, you are going to a different system and need to understand that it comes with new ways of technique and care. How people think this is a new issue is beyond me. I can take a photo at this exact moment with my d7000 and d600 and you could see spots in the same exact area.... Upper left. D7000 has 4 spots 1 really dark. The D600 has 3 spots....one really dark. Read up on the D3 and D300... you will see same thing. I think people read these forums and go from shooting with a great camera and feeling great to shooting walls and sky and looking for scratches. This trend of worry is what is of concern. Pros either are going to buy this camera and make the best of it or not. Advanced users moving to this camera are going to buy it and need this adjustment period to accept how nikon has been doing things for a long time. This is nothing new...NOTHING NEW. Issues come up and they fix it on some and not on others and the fix is often not long term. These forums are full of people finding faults and issues and that is okay but how many came as a moment of "hey what is wrong here?" and how many came from “I read about left focus issue...lets see if I have this” or “I know my shots look good but lets see it at f16 like they talk about on these forums”. Do you know how many people have been shooting with Nikon dslrs but because they are at or around f5 most of the time, they never know about dust issues? I just spent 1 hour in penn camera today talking with my camera guy and we discussed this issue and he brought up how people show up in the store with a list of printed serial numbers from these types of forums and want him to bring out D800 after D800 looking for one that supposedly matches the ones with no left AF issue. This has not been proven to be tied to one specific serial number. He says they will sometime return the camera saying they found the same issue. Some are chronic buy and return people. He said do some cameras have issues? YES but people come in looking for issues and will pick on things that even the in store tech tries to show them is fine and they cant replicate in a image for them. It is a syndrome and not normal. At what point do you start enjoying your camera and at what point do you keep returning and shipping cameras to nikon for dust and expect a full fix? History says I am right in how nikon takes care of dust issues. I have been shooting nikon from the film days and trust me the customer no service is real but they always come thru with amazing images. Now if you are a PRO landscape photographer and live at f16 and the sky is your main subject and you hate touching up images, by all means buy something else but know and I promise you one day you will need to fork out to have a person clean the sensor or learn to clean it.

First of all, the topic started with the scratches. These scratches may or may not cause debri on the sensor/mirror (or get trapped in the mirror mechanism). If so, this devri may be more dangerous when wet cleaning, because it may cause more damage than regular dust.

The other thing that comes onto the discussion is oil anddust. Even without the scratches there are complaints about dust and oil. YMMV. And you may or may not be willing to clean it time and after time. Pro or no pro.

I'm not concerned about the dust and oil. I'm concerned about the scratches. It's either a poor paint job leading to more paint coming off, or it's a mechanical issue that is likely to cause more damage. Either way, this is not something to happen in a 2000 euro camera. Maybe some people are less sensitive to such sums of money, but I refuse to accept it. Period.

I measured the width of the scratch on my camera. I was almost 8 mm wide. That is hardly something to neglect. There is no other choise than to send it in.

What has been said above, about Nikon solving the issue, those are my thoughts too. Nikon Japan will never admit there is a real issue. And if they do anything, they will do a silent repair with or without a lasting success. The good thing is, if it happens again, I will get my money back.

Nikonfan99 said:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

The issue of dust is something that a lot of pros have dealt with for a long time and when you move from a d40, d60, d80 or d90 to a d600, you are going to a different system and need to understand that it comes with new ways of technique and care. How people think this is a new issue is beyond me.

Click to expand...

You don't understand what the issue is all about. It's not about presence of dust or oil spots on the sensor. It's about the abnormal intensity of their presence. It's not about the nature of the issue, but its degree, as explained by LensRental here, where they clearly acknowledge that all DSLRs will end up with a few spots on their sensor, but that their sample of D600s requires constant cleaning and has more dust / oil spots than usual : http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/10/d600-sensor-dust-issues

Nikonfan99 said:

Nikonfan99 wrote:


1. I actually always check my equipment prior to a shoot. This is what most pros do. I have now had this camera for over a month and still have the same three spots that showed up. Only one spot shows up below f16 and is very faint at f5 and shows up in a solid light colored spot top left only. I just did a 300 image shoot and the spot could not be found under the closest inspection. Camera is at 900+ shots and still same three spots.

Click to expand...

Nikonfan99, any specific reason why haven't you cleaned your stained sensor after 900+ shots?


Leo

Technically it's more like a rub, its not a scratch. Something is rubbing against the mirror box and causing the paint to flake off, not really a scratch...JMO, Don't know why this has been bothering me.... I guess because I am away at work for 2 weeks & I did not bring the 600 with me & I',m dying to see if I have the "Rub"...

MayaTlab0 said:

MayaTlab0 wrote:

MayaTlab0 said:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

The issue of dust is something that a lot of pros have dealt with for a long time and when you move from a d40, d60, d80 or d90 to a d600, you are going to a different system and need to understand that it comes with new ways of technique and care. How people think this is a new issue is beyond me.

Click to expand...

You don't understand what the issue is all about. It's not about presence of dust or oil spots on the sensor. It's about the abnormal intensity of their presence. It's not about the nature of the issue, but its degree, as explained by LensRental here, where they clearly acknowledge that all DSLRs will end up with a few spots on their sensor, but that their sample of D600s requires constant cleaning and has more dust / oil spots than usual : http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/10/d600-sensor-dust-issues

Click to expand...

I actually do understand. I speak english just fine and referencing lensrentals does nothing for this. They also dont do wet cleanings. If you watch the video that talks about how they deal with the sensors. They call wet cleaning "a pain in the ass" instead they use all the tools that nikon would not use. The wet clean method is the suggested method for professional shops to ensure you are starting out with a really clean sensor. I also dont put a lot of weight on what they are saying because my d7000 is the same way and if you read up on the d3 and d300 you would find the same thing. Can you explain now how these previous units do the same thing? This is nothing new and these boards are what keeps this issue growing and making it bigger.