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E-M5, E-PL5, E-PM2... or wait?

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sigala1 said:
sigala1 wrote:
When you add in the cost of a viewfinder to the E-PL5, then the prices are pretty close.

And I really don't think that Olympus is losing business because they don't have enough models. Three is enough. The EP model has always been the elite high-end model for people willing to pay a lot extra without really getting that much more. The OMD now fills those shoes, and the OMD actually does deliver more such as the weather sealing, the built-in EVF and the 5-axis IBIS.
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Yes E-PL5 + VF2 is closer to the OMD price than it should be - but that's why a Pen with built in evf makes more sense - in the same way the Nex 6 with built in evf is not more expensive than the Nex 5R + Sony add on EVF - it's cheaper. Add on evfs are expensive in relation to the cost of the bodies.

Of course there is the advantage of add on evfs - that they are 'modular' - buy once and then add them to your next body (as long as it's an Olympus and not a Panasonic) for no additional costs, but the add on evfs are also bulky and fragile vs built in ones and some may find them more awkward to use.

I think where Olympus does have too much model similarity is in the EPM1/EPL3 and EPM2/EPL5 - only a couple of buttons and a tilt screen separate them. Makes more sense to me for them to have something more radically different in terms of a rangefinder body with built in evf (which no m43 camera yet offers while the Nex line now does).

The OMD doesn't really fill the EPX gap as it's a different style of body (retro slr) although I agree the EP models never offered that much more for the higher price - but if they had an evf plus a few more control dials that would perhaps be a more compelling proposition and still be lower enough in price (and different enough) than the OMD to fit in the Olympus line-up?
 
Mellowmark said:
Mellowmark wrote:
Mellowmark said:
sigala1 wrote:
When you add in the cost of a viewfinder to the E-PL5, then the prices are pretty close.

And I really don't think that Olympus is losing business because they don't have enough models. Three is enough. The EP model has always been the elite high-end model for people willing to pay a lot extra without really getting that much more. The OMD now fills those shoes, and the OMD actually does deliver more such as the weather sealing, the built-in EVF and the 5-axis IBIS.
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Yes E-PL5 + VF2 is closer to the OMD price than it should be - but that's why a Pen with built in evf makes more sense - in the same way the Nex 6 with built in evf is not more expensive than the Nex 5R + Sony add on EVF - it's cheaper. Add on evfs are expensive in relation to the cost of the bodies.

Of course there is the advantage of add on evfs - that they are 'modular' - buy once and then add them to your next body (as long as it's an Olympus and not a Panasonic) for no additional costs, but the add on evfs are also bulky and fragile vs built in ones and some may find them more awkward to use.

I think where Olympus does have too much model similarity is in the EPM1/EPL3 and EPM2/EPL5 - only a couple of buttons and a tilt screen separate them. Makes more sense to me for them to have something more radically different in terms of a rangefinder body with built in evf (which no m43 camera yet offers while the Nex line now does).

The OMD doesn't really fill the EPX gap as it's a different style of body (retro slr) although I agree the EP models never offered that much more for the higher price - but if they had an evf plus a few more control dials that would perhaps be a more compelling proposition and still be lower enough in price (and different enough) than the OMD to fit in the Olympus line-up?
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Check Amazon. The NEX_6 costs $200 more than the NEX_5R. The EVR plus other features are much more valuable than a touch-screen. Likewise an E-PL5 with a built-in EVF would be outrageously expensive.
 
sigala1 said:
sigala1 wrote:
sigala1 said:
djst wrote:

The new PEN cameras underwhelmed me in a way, but I've been waiting so long for them to be announced that I now hesitate to buy the E-M5 since it will likely see a price drop in just a month or so. To make things even worse we will likely see an E-P5 in february.

The screen of the new PENs sucks. The OMD is heavy and is waiting for a price drop. I can't decide if I really need an EVF built in or if a detachable is better due to smaller body when not needed. Nextopia makes me curious about the E-P5. Aaarrgghh!
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Super high quality Sony sensor. More than 1 EV of high ISO ability and say goodbye to noisy shadows. And 4 extra megapixels to boot.

Touchscreen.

Extra function button.

Change focus point size.

Able to use OIS with Panasonic lens.

Maybe they even fixed the IBIS/vibration bug which made IBIS useless on the E-PM1.

I am DROOLING over the new PEN. The E-PM2 is better than ANY camera Olympus has ever made in the history of the company with the exception of the E-PL5 and E-M5
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I am sort of drooling too: just because of the sensor the E_PL5 would be worth an upgrade from the Pana G2.

But handlig of the G2 is much superior and without an in body EVF, I still have to wait, because 80% of my photos are made using the EVF.

Peter.

PS: I can't bring myself to like the E-M5. It's simply ugly. And it does NOT look like the OM film cameras! Well, looks count.
 
sigala1 said:
sigala1 wrote:
sigala1 said:
If you want an E-PL5 with an EVF, then just buy a VF-2 or VF-3. And if you want more than that, like weather sealing, twin control dials, and the ability to use an EVF and a flash at the same time, then buy an E-M5.''
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what i want is an e-pl5 with a buit-in flash. i already have a vf-2 that i use with my e-pl1.
 
i can wait a few more months to see what pans out. my e-pl1 works fine enough for most of the stuff that i use it for. i guess i'll invest in a lens in the meantime.

--
Photography - It's not what you look at that matters; it's what you see.

Galleries: http://www.photo.net/photos/teru
 
Teru Kage said:
Teru Rinshou wrote:

i can wait a few more months to see what pans out. my e-pl1 works fine enough for most of the stuff that i use it for. i guess i'll invest in a lens in the meantime.

--
Photography - It's not what you look at that matters; it's what you see.
Galleries: http://www.photo.net/photos/teru
http://www.fotop.net/teruphoto
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I agree. My cams (E-620/510 and E-PM1) all work just fine, what's a few more months?

Based on rumors Olympus is up to something good in early '13, and a rangefinder styled E-P5 with E-M5 sensor/processor/5-axis IBIS, corner EVF, built-in flash, tilt/touch 3" usable area OLED, sleek/light body (no weathersealing to save weight?) seems too obvious to be ignored.

They'll overprice it at intro to harvest early adopters in the Olympus tradition, but then let it settle to its true market value over 6 months or so, at which time I'll be tempted. That is if I don't first fall for an E-PM2 once the price drops to $500, or an E-M5 discounted to $850 for the holidays.

This is based on personal experience, never having purchased an Olympus digital camera with less than a 15% discount (E-PM1 three months after release), and more frequently a discount of 30-35% (both DSLR's purchased within a year of release).

I'm in it for the long haul, typically using my digital cameras for 3-5 years after purchase (as compared to 15+ years with my OM-2S), so a bit of patience pays dividends. It also allows time for any bugs to be worked out.

But you never know, there's always a first time! If an E-P5 featured as above and priced around $750 body-only (dreaming I'm sure) was released, I could just fall for it. Come on, Olympus, call my bluff ;-)!
 
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Ulfric M Douglas said:
Ulfric M Douglas wrote:

Yes, that is the proper successor to the e-pL1 ... I'm waiting for one too.
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Ditto, the E-PL1 is OK for me until it's proper successor comes along. Might just sort out my lens collection before something really better comes along that suits me.
Ulfric M Douglas said:
But ... you just know they'll cripple it in some way by not knowing what their customers actually require.
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They do know what people want, a useful, near perfect camera - but no way it will be made as then you might not buy another camera.

The camera companies are just like the drug companies where anti-biotics are unpopular to develop because the patient may take just one dose then buy no more. They need ailments that cause you to keep buying their expensive product forever.

Regards...... Guy
 
Mellowmark said:
Mellowmark wrote:
Mellowmark said:
captura wrote:
Check Amazon. The NEX_6 costs $200 more than the NEX_5R. The EVR plus other features are much more valuable than a touch-screen. Likewise an E-PL5 with a built-in EVF would be outrageously expensive.
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It shouldn't be "outrageously expensive":

Alpha NEX-5R + 18-55mm lens = £611.48 + Sony EVF: (£200) = £811.48

Alpha NEX-6 Body £699.00

Alpha NEX-6 + 16-50mm Lens £749.99

So the Nex 6 with built in evf and more controls is cheaper than buying the 5R + external evf.

So if you want an evf (almost essential for bright sunshine, macro, manual focus etc etc) then the 6 is a 'no brainer'. If you don't want an evf there is the slightly cheaper option of the 5R. Something for everyone. :)

I don't see why Olympus cannot come up with similar pricing for an EP5 (with EVF) compared to the EPL5 (without EVF).

The Sony EVF on amazon US is $257.00, so if the 6 is $200 more than the 5r, the 6 is still slightly cheaper than buying the 5r + evf. If you don't need/want an evf there is the choice of buying the cheaper 5R without and if you do want an evf then you can buy the 6.

All I am asking for is a similar choice from m43.
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Why did you choose such a difficult approach to a simple question???

Amazon, Sony NEX-5R/B 16.1 MP Compact, BODY ONLY, $648.00


Loading…

www.amazon.com

vs

Amazon, Sony NEX-6/B 16.1 MP Compact, BODY ONLY, $848.00

Loading…

www.amazon.com


---the difference is $200. Furthermore the NEX_6 has a number of additional features not present on the 5R. It is indeed, much closer to the NEX_7. You are using a falacious apples-and-oranges argument.
 
photobeans said:
photobeans wrote:

omd is pricey with a sensor you should not clean by yourself
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Why not? I've not had any problems with sensor cleaning on my OMD. Do you say this because of the floating sensor?
 
Mellowmark said:
Mellowmark wrote:
Mellowmark said:
captura wrote:
Why did you choose such a difficult approach to a simple question???

Amazon, Sony NEX-5R/B 16.1 MP Compact, BODY ONLY, $648.00


Loading…

www.amazon.com

vs

Amazon, Sony NEX-6/B 16.1 MP Compact, BODY ONLY, $848.00

Loading…

www.amazon.com


---the difference is $200. Furthermore the NEX_6 has a number of additional features not present on the 5R. It is indeed, much closer to the NEX_7. You are using a falacious apples-and-oranges argument.
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? Well I simply took the UK prices from a UK price comparison site (as that's where I live) - there is no body only price for the 5R in the UK.

I am not sure what is falacious /deceptive about that or what point you are trying to make? I was simply saying Nex 6 which has additional features and an evf is not "outrageously expensive" when compared to the 5R - so there is no reason for an EP5 to be so when compared to the EPL5.
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Well, an EPL-5 equivalent with a built-in EVF could be $200 more expensive, bringing it into OMD territory.
 
tedolf said:
tedolf wrote:
tedolf said:
djst wrote:

Follow-up: I went ahead and ordered the E-M5 yesterday. I've been going back and forth for such a long time now, and I even read yesterday on 43rumors.com that there will likely be a new PEN E-P5 announced in early 2013 that I will probably want badly once I've seen it. But ultimately I decided that I want a camera today, not in a year from now, so I went with what I think seems like the best options.

This will give me a chance to evaluate the usefulness (for me) of having a built-in EVF, plus I'll get to enjoy the supposedly amazing 5-axis stabilization. And ultimately, if I sell it within a few months from now in Sweden (picking this up from the US), I probably won't make much of a loss either since they currently sell for the equiv of 1350 USD (body only).

Bottom line: it felt like it was worth it in the end -- but I might still "upgrade" (sidegrade?) to the E-P5 if it's essentially an E-M5 in a more compact rangefinder-styled body.
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Mellowmark said:
Mellowmark wrote:
Mellowmark said:
captura wrote:
Well, an EPL-5 equivalent with a built-in EVF could be $200 more expensive, bringing it into OMD territory.
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Ah, okay fair point. I see what you mean - apologies for any misunderstanding.

Of course for those who buy an EPL5 + an add on evf they will be spending an extra $200 or more anyway, but that option does at least mean they can transfer the evf to another body.

Perhaps then the E-PL5 is somewhat overpriced - given how much less it offers compared to the OMD. :) Would still love to see a rangefinder body with built in evf though as I prefer that style and am not a big fan of an add on evf - as said before personally not too bothered if it's an EP5 or GX2 or something else. Can only wait and see what announcements are made over the next few weeks and months though...
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Assuming that Olympus doesn't change their excellent EVF almost every time they announce a new camera body, like Panasonic was fond of doing.

Did you mention that the EPL-5 has a touch screen?


The EPL-5 looks like an excellent model and being a new model, they've priced it high. Prices will come down a bit in a year.

Maybe Olympus needs a new PEN model in competition with the NEX-6, (with a built-in EFV and no touchscreen.) It could be that same $200 more than the EPL-5.
 
Guy Parsons said:
Guy Parsons wrote:
Guy Parsons said:
Ulfric M Douglas wrote:

Yes, that is the proper successor to the e-pL1 ... I'm waiting for one too.
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Ditto, the E-PL1 is OK for me until it's proper successor comes along. Might just sort out my lens collection before something really better comes along that suits me.
Guy Parsons said:
But ... you just know they'll cripple it in some way by not knowing what their customers actually require.
Click to expand...
They do know what people want, a useful, near perfect camera - but no way it will be made as then you might not buy another camera.

The camera companies are just like the drug companies where anti-biotics are unpopular to develop because the patient may take just one dose then buy no more. They need ailments that cause you to keep buying their expensive product forever.

Regards...... Guy
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But taking this another step in another direction, what if the drugs contain a secret ingredient which can cause a new set of symptoms to appear, down the road, as some people claim. Good for business! Is there a camera analogy?

Guy, I picked up an EPL-1 body and a GF-2 body for about $150, a few months apart. Now I have littl;e to lose with experiments, and so on. You would agree that one doesn't need to have the latest and the greatest. I know you favor the EPL-1 but how would you rate the GF-2 in comparison? (I know this is boring for some members.)

Steve
 
Mellowmark said:
Mellowmark wrote:
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Mellowmark said:
Mellowmark said:
sigala1 wrote:
Mellowmark said:
Right now I have a hard time figuring out why Olympus would even need an E-P5 as there isn't much space between the E-PL5 and the E-M5 for another camera. If you want an E-PL5 with an EVF, then just buy a VF-2 or VF-3. And if you want more than that, like weather sealing, twin control dials, and the ability to use an EVF and a flash at the same time, then buy an E-M5.
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Because there is probably demand for a m43 version of the Nex 6 and a built in evf is a lot less hassle and less bulky than a VF2 /3. Not everyone likes the form factor, looks and ergonomics of the OMD. If Nex has space in their range for the Nex 7 and 6 plus the 5 series and 3 series, then it make sense for Olympus to do similar if the demand is there.

So the equivalents would be: Nex 7 (OMD) Nex 6 (EP5) Nex 5R (EPL5) Nex 3F (EPM2).

There is still no m43 camera with a rangefinder style body and a built in evf, only modern (G,GH) or retro (OMD) dslr/slr style bodies. I think a camera which offered this would be very popular, wether it's Panasonic with a GX2 or Olympus with an EP5.
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I think Olympus recognizes that their strategy of holding out on producing a full-featured mFT body until buyers were like a pack of starved dogs worked well for E-M5 sales, so they're now doing the same for a full-featured rangefinder model. And, again like the E-M5, don't expect the price to be cheap when it magically appears early next year.

Once that happens they'll have created two other niches crying to be filled, affordable full-featured mFT's in DSLR and rangefinder style bodies. No weathersealing, no alloy chassis, just the usual Olympus quality polycarbonate as formerly found in their E-xxx DSLR's.

Throw in a built-in flash (which should have been there all along), IBIS and a flip screen at a price range of $700-750 and they'd sell them all day long.
 
Guy Parsons said:
Guy Parsons wrote:
Guy Parsons said:
captura wrote: ....... but how would you rate the GF-2 in comparison? (I know this is boring for some members.)
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My final Panasonic was the LX3, after that they seemed to favour chipped batteries which annoys me intensely. Plus I'm used to the way Olympus does things so will stick with them. Oly have more configurable settings ability via the menus and better flash control so I'll stick with that. The Panasonic offerings leave me a bit cold but obviously they do work for folks that use them. Just a matter of tuning them to get the output they want.

I'm not sure how to sum up the situation but maybe Panasonic is for folks who want to take photos, Olympus is for folks who want to take photos and also like to fiddle with their cameras.

Regards......... Guy
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I still have my LX3.
 
sderdiarian said:
sderdiarian wrote:
sderdiarian said:
Mellowmark wrote:
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sderdiarian said:
sderdiarian said:
sigala1 wrote:
sderdiarian said:
Right now I have a hard time figuring out why Olympus would even need an E-P5 as there isn't much space between the E-PL5 and the E-M5 for another camera. If you want an E-PL5 with an EVF, then just buy a VF-2 or VF-3. And if you want more than that, like weather sealing, twin control dials, and the ability to use an EVF and a flash at the same time, then buy an E-M5.
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Because there is probably demand for a m43 version of the Nex 6 and a built in evf is a lot less hassle and less bulky than a VF2 /3. Not everyone likes the form factor, looks and ergonomics of the OMD. If Nex has space in their range for the Nex 7 and 6 plus the 5 series and 3 series, then it make sense for Olympus to do similar if the demand is there.

So the equivalents would be: Nex 7 (OMD) Nex 6 (EP5) Nex 5R (EPL5) Nex 3F (EPM2).

There is still no m43 camera with a rangefinder style body and a built in evf, only modern (G,GH) or retro (OMD) dslr/slr style bodies. I think a camera which offered this would be very popular, wether it's Panasonic with a GX2 or Olympus with an EP5.
Click to expand...
I think Olympus recognizes that their strategy of holding out on producing a full-featured mFT body until buyers were like a pack of starved dogs worked well for E-M5 sales, so they're now doing the same for a full-featured rangefinder model. And, again like the E-M5, don't expect the price to be cheap when it magically appears early next year.

Once that happens they'll have created two other niches crying to be filled, affordable full-featured mFT's in DSLR and rangefinder style bodies. No weathersealing, no alloy chassis, just the usual Olympus quality polycarbonate as formerly found in their E-xxx DSLR's.

Throw in a built-in flash (which should have been there all along), IBIS and a flip screen at a price range of $700-750 and they'd sell them all day long.
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Have gone through some lenses and E-PL1 => E-PL2 => to my current E-P3 setup with 20/2, 25/1.4, 45/1.8, 14-42, 9-18 & 14-140.

Basically happy with E-P3 except for dynamic range and noise. I like the size and built-in flash.

Have been contemplating OM-D or even E-PM2 on and off.

---

I'll wait a while longer and see whats on the horizon. I've also kept some of my Canon FF gear (5D II, 24/1.4 II, 50/1.2, 24-85, 70-200/2.8 IS I), have a really hard time letting those things go and especially the 50 and 70-200 even though I use m4/3 most of the time and increasingly so.
 
Well I'm in the same boat, but if it really comes down to it, I might go for the NEX-6 because it checks all the boxes on what I need in a camera... Don't get me wrong I have been an Oly loyal since the OM1n days and the rangefinder SP and used the awesome C-8080 for YEARS!!!! I have a few really good MF Oly glass as well. SO yeah I love the way Olympus glass renders images and the out of camera jpegs their DSLR camera produces. Then when Olympus gets something that fits my shooting needs then I'll let go of the NEX-6.

I figured the companies are merging anyway and will be sharing the same technology and R&D so hopefully getting a Sony and or Olympus will just be a matter of personal preference... In my opinion... :)
 
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