Thumbs down trolls

Pretty much the exact response I expected...no one told you to shut up...just perhaps to tone down your responses for awhile. I was truly trying to be helpful...but to be honest, I really don't think you belong here, maybe another type forum would be best for you. I guess being called pathetic breaks the code of not getting personal...Enjoy your day...I'm done here..it's not worth the time.

herbymel said:

herbymel wrote:

Pretty much the exact response I expected...no one told you to shut up...just perhaps to tone down your responses for awhile. I was truly trying to be helpful...but to be honest, I really don't think you belong here, maybe another type forum would be best for you. I guess being called pathetic breaks the code of not getting personal...Enjoy your day...I'm done here..it's not worth the time.

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That was my read also. I think when one reaches a certain frustration level, they may often simply be unable to read comprehensively and fail to grasp intent as emotional response now prevents it. It almost the same thing with some drunks that reach a point that what the "hear" no longer matches what was actually said. I appreciate your trying to help though. Have a great day....more pics await

herbymel said:

herbymel wrote:

Pretty much the exact response I expected...no one told you to shut up...just perhaps to tone down your responses for awhile. I was truly trying to be helpful...but to be honest, I really don't think you belong here, maybe another type forum would be best for you. I guess being called pathetic breaks the code of not getting personal...Enjoy your day...I'm done here..it's not worth the time.

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I called the response pathetic. I did not call you pathetic.

I honestly do not see the difference between being told to "tone it down" and being told to allow trolls to run unchecked without commenting ie. to shut up. And again you're telling me I probably don't belong here. Before as now you're being critical of me and giving a free pass to people who bully.

Mako2011 said:

Mako2011 wrote:

Mako2011 said:

herbymel wrote:

Pretty much the exact response I expected...no one told you to shut up...just perhaps to tone down your responses for awhile. I was truly trying to be helpful...but to be honest, I really don't think you belong here, maybe another type forum would be best for you. I guess being called pathetic breaks the code of not getting personal...Enjoy your day...I'm done here..it's not worth the time.

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That was my read also. I think when one reaches a certain frustration level, they may often simply be unable to read comprehensively and fail to grasp intent as emotional response now prevents it. It almost the same thing with some drunks that reach a point that what the "hear" no longer matches what was actually said. I appreciate your trying to help though. Have a great day....more pics await

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So now I'm being compared to a drunk. Lovely. Nah not offensive at all. I'm just being paranoid and taking it to heart. How dare I use the word pathetic.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

Mako2011 wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

herbymel wrote:

Pretty much the exact response I expected...no one told you to shut up...just perhaps to tone down your responses for awhile. I was truly trying to be helpful...but to be honest, I really don't think you belong here, maybe another type forum would be best for you. I guess being called pathetic breaks the code of not getting personal...Enjoy your day...I'm done here..it's not worth the time.

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That was my read also. I think when one reaches a certain frustration level, they may often simply be unable to read comprehensively and fail to grasp intent as emotional response now prevents it. It almost the same thing with some drunks that reach a point that what the "hear" no longer matches what was actually said. I appreciate your trying to help though. Have a great day....more pics await

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So now I'm being compared to a drunk. Lovely. Nah not offensive at all. I'm just being paranoid and taking it to heart.

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Of course not....but as you just demonstrated, you're not understanding the text as a drunk often doesn't hear the words being spoken. Drunk with frustration...as an example. That's simply a metaphor. Not sure if "paranoid" is really an accurate symptom/description. Going back I think Peter Jonas described it better than me. I'm not good at that.

RedFox88 said:

RedFox88 wrote:

DPR had a poll and the majority of the voters wanted to keep the voting system.

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Yes but ... of those who voted, the majority (53.8%) are not happy with its current form.

1640 against 1117

Keep it as it is 36.6% (1117 votes)
Get rid of it altogether 32.3% (986 votes)
Keep it, but show who voted 12.5% (380 votes)
Do whatever you want 9.6% (292 votes)
Only allow positive feedback 9.0% (274 votes)

Indeed someone is playing the TD against you but so what?
You need to trust the judgement of the majority of the people here. We are not blind. But you are going nowhere to continue to argue your case like this. You do have a point but way too strong. Just ignore it and let DPR do something about it, oh if they care.

Since2007 said:

aus4ever wrote:

Indeed someone is playing the TD against you but so what?
You need to trust the judgement of the majority of the people here. We are not blind. But you are going nowhere to continue to argue your case like this. You do have a point but way too strong. Just ignore it and let DPR do something about it, oh if they care.

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Okay, I'll calmly tell you what the consequences are.

For me not a lot right now. IF they start using the TU/TD to highlight posts or push them to the top, it means if enough trolls get together I won't be heard. That hasn't happened yet, but I believe if the system is kept, it will be natural to implement this - either as an option (opt in, or opt out...who knows) or as the way the forum works - like it or lump it.

Lets look beyond the consequences to myself. People will be put of posting. Lurkers will continue to lurk. Those who take it to heart easily will simply stop posting after being blasted a few times. (That's why I find it funny when people say I'm getting all worked up and it's all about me. If it were I'd have taken my proverbial bat and ball home long ago). Negative feedback is very harmful, especially where people are putting their knowledge and skill out there to be judged.

Don't believe me? Take a look at some of the complaints about the challenges. I personally wouldn't do that. I think it's poor form to ask to be judged, then complain that the judging is unfair. But at the same time I totally understand that something a person thinks is great comes in the bottom 10% of a vote. Others call the ranking system broken with rampant cheating. Whole other discussion though. In the context of this discussion I'm just saying I do believe it will hurt egos and in turn hurt the board.
So what happens in the long term. A bunch of self proclaimed and very rude experts are the only ones willing to post. Only a "groupthink" mentality prevails. No variety. New users are quickly shouted down and put in their place. The board stagnates and when these people are done patting each other on the back it dies. I've seen this happen to other communities. They limp along for a year or two and eventually just wither.

By the way I timed myself writing this reply. 7 minutes. End of a long day and I'm tired. Usually I'm quicker.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

aus4ever wrote:

Indeed someone is playing the TD against you but so what?
You need to trust the judgement of the majority of the people here. We are not blind. But you are going nowhere to continue to argue your case like this. You do have a point but way too strong. Just ignore it and let DPR do something about it, oh if they care.

Click to expand...

Okay, I'll calmly tell you what the consequences are.

For me not a lot right now. IF they start using the TU/TD to highlight posts or push them to the top, it means if enough trolls get together I won't be heard. That hasn't happened yet, but I believe if the system is kept, it will be natural to implement this - either as an option (opt in, or opt out...who knows) or as the way the forum works - like it or lump it.

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It's not happening yet and I don't think DPR would.
I don't know what other people think; I don't judge a post by the number of TU/TD it received.

Sammy Yousef said:

Lets look beyond the consequences to myself. People will be put of posting. Lurkers will continue to lurk. Those who take it to heart easily will simply stop posting after being blasted a few times. (That's why I find it funny when people say I'm getting all worked up and it's all about me. If it were I'd have taken my proverbial bat and ball home long ago). Negative feedback is very harmful, especially where people are putting their knowledge and skill out there to be judged.

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I would focus on the positives. As long as I can learn something through these forums everyday, it is worth spending time here.

If you can, just ignore the negatives. If you need to respond, don't overreact. There are perhaps exceptions to the rule, but you don't need to be rude to make a point.

Sammy Yousef said:

Don't believe me? Take a look at some of the complaints about the challenges. I personally wouldn't do that. I think it's poor form to ask to be judged, then complain that the judging is unfair. But at the same time I totally understand that something a person thinks is great comes in the bottom 10% of a vote. Others call the ranking system broken with rampant cheating. Whole other discussion though. In the context of this discussion I'm just saying I do believe it will hurt egos and in turn hurt the board.

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If that is the case, just don't participate. I did it just for fun. I do know how good or how bad my skills are.

Sammy Yousef said:

So what happens in the long term. A bunch of self proclaimed and very rude experts are the only ones willing to post. Only a "groupthink" mentality prevails. No variety. New users are quickly shouted down and put in their place. The board stagnates and when these people are done patting each other on the back it dies. I've seen this happen to other communities. They limp along for a year or two and eventually just wither.

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If that's the case, DPR should be more worried than you.

Sammy Yousef said:

By the way I timed myself writing this reply. 7 minutes. End of a long day and I'm tired. Usually I'm quicker.

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It takes me longer to write a post. I have to check my facts and tone. Have a good night.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

aus4ever wrote:

Indeed someone is playing the TD against you but so what?
You need to trust the judgement of the majority of the people here. We are not blind. But you are going nowhere to continue to argue your case like this. You do have a point but way too strong. Just ignore it and let DPR do something about it, oh if they care.

Click to expand...

Okay, I'll calmly tell you what the consequences are.

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How can there be real personal consequences in a text only public forum?

Sammy Yousef said:

For me not a lot right now. IF they start using the TU/TD to highlight posts or push them to the top, it means if enough trolls get together I won't be heard.....

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When you say "I won't be heard"...it suggests you might be simply putting too much emphasis on the role played by the forums in everyday affairs.

Sammy Yousef said:

Negative feedback is very harmful, especially where people are putting their knowledge and skill out there to be judged.

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Negative feedback is often far more practical and useful. A world that only hands out little gold stars becomes stagnate in a very short time.

Sammy Yousef said:

Don't believe me?

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It's not that...it that some simply think you overemphasize or simply use a soapbox so tall you risk falling off.

Sammy Yousef said:

By the way I timed myself writing this reply. 7 minutes. End of a long day and I'm tired. Usually I'm quicker.

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Now your timing your own replies.....that shows a bit of fixation that might not be all that good. It might be really helpful to take a break from this place and get back to photography for a week or so. Good luck

c'mon mate, 175 TD in this post altogether can be taken as your personal best, considering the whole tread is still alive. You really care that much? Nobody else does, it's just a stupid button to push if bored to death - no harm or even serious thoughts put behind pushing it...

Mako2011 said:

Mako2011 wrote:

Mako2011 said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Mako2011 said:

aus4ever wrote:

Indeed someone is playing the TD against you but so what?
You need to trust the judgement of the majority of the people here. We are not blind. But you are going nowhere to continue to argue your case like this. You do have a point but way too strong. Just ignore it and let DPR do something about it, oh if they care.

Click to expand...

Okay, I'll calmly tell you what the consequences are.

Click to expand...

How can there be real personal consequences in a text only public forum?

Mako2011 said:

For me not a lot right now. IF they start using the TU/TD to highlight posts or push them to the top, it means if enough trolls get together I won't be heard.....

Click to expand...

When you say "I won't be heard"...it suggests you might be simply putting too much emphasis on the role played by the forums in everyday affairs.

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There's no point in writing something others will never read.

Mako2011 said:

Mako2011 said:

Negative feedback is very harmful, especially where people are putting their knowledge and skill out there to be judged.

Click to expand...

Negative feedback is often far more practical and useful. A world that only hands out little gold stars becomes stagnate in a very short time.

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And I did not ask for zero negative feedback altogether. I asked for the removal of an anonymous tool for trolls to use to attack others. I'd be much more comfortable if it wasn't anonymous....as would others be. It would quickly show who was being genuine and who was trolling.

Mako2011 said:

Mako2011 said:

Don't believe me?

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It's not that...it that some simply think you overemphasize or simply use a soapbox so tall you risk falling off.

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Again, what's the point of writing something that will immediately be censored?

Mako2011 said:

Mako2011 said:

By the way I timed myself writing this reply. 7 minutes. End of a long day and I'm tired. Usually I'm quicker.

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Now your timing your own replies.....that shows a bit of fixation that might not be all that good. It might be really helpful to take a break from this place and get back to photography for a week or so. Good luck

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Well gee, I'm still taking photographs and I REALLY am not spending that much time here at all.

Hey, welcome back to the thread (I think it missed you ) Hopefully you slept well. Big monster storm hitting the N/E USA and Canada tonight, wish us luck.

ZorSy said:

ZorSy wrote:
c'mon mate, 175 TD in this post altogether can be taken as your personal best, considering the whole tread is still alive. You really care that much? Nobody else does, it's just a stupid button to push if bored to death - no harm or even serious thoughts put behind pushing it...

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That is the key problem. People think it's no big deal if trolls run rife. The fact is we've always had flame wars and trolling, but lately people seem to be losing perspective. Trolling has become acceptable. Civilised conversation without name calling is becoming the exception rather than the rule. Not just here - the whole of the net. But here with these changes we're seeing an ever increasing acceptance of it. And 2/3rds of people using TU/TD on this thread seem to be quite content with that.

It is a disgraceful state of affairs and it can't continue without consequence, whether I choose to continue to participate or not.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:
whether I choose to continue to participate or not.

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Yep, choosing can be difficult. Good luck.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

Mako2011 wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

aus4ever wrote:

Indeed someone is playing the TD against you but so what?
You need to trust the judgement of the majority of the people here. We are not blind. But you are going nowhere to continue to argue your case like this. You do have a point but way too strong. Just ignore it and let DPR do something about it, oh if they care.

Click to expand...

Okay, I'll calmly tell you what the consequences are.

Click to expand...

How can there be real personal consequences in a text only public forum?

Sammy Yousef said:

For me not a lot right now. IF they start using the TU/TD to highlight posts or push them to the top, it means if enough trolls get together I won't be heard.....

Click to expand...

When you say "I won't be heard"...it suggests you might be simply putting too much emphasis on the role played by the forums in everyday affairs.

Click to expand...

There's no point in writing something others will never read.

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There is even less point in writing something no one wants and doesn't need to read.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef said:

Negative feedback is very harmful, especially where people are putting their knowledge and skill out there to be judged.

Click to expand...

Negative feedback is often far more practical and useful. A world that only hands out little gold stars becomes stagnate in a very short time.

Click to expand...

And I did not ask for zero negative feedback altogether. I asked for the removal of an anonymous tool for trolls to use to attack others. I'd be much more comfortable if it wasn't anonymous....as would others be. It would quickly show who was being genuine and who was trolling.

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See, it's not about the tool, it's about your comfort level. You don't like something that makes you uncomfortable and want it removed...I don't think it was ever really about trolling as your soapbox often came out even before the TU/TD system. I think when they implement the new system, you'll simply change the sign on the soapbox. No disrespect, just how I see it.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef said:

Don't believe me?

Click to expand...

It's not that...it that some simply think you overemphasize or simply use a soapbox so tall you risk falling off.

Click to expand...

Again, what's the point of writing something that will immediately be censored?

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I see no censorship here of your posts. I also see little point in many of your posts in this thread. Not the case with many of your posts in other threads though.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef said:

By the way I timed myself writing this reply. 7 minutes. End of a long day and I'm tired. Usually I'm quicker.

Click to expand...

Now your timing your own replies.....that shows a bit of fixation that might not be all that good. It might be really helpful to take a break from this place and get back to photography for a week or so. Good luck

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Well gee, I'm still taking photographs and I REALLY am not spending that much time here at all.

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Really? Is that how you see it? The count suggests otherwise. You may well be served to try to examine that in as unbiased a way as you can muster. Wish you the best.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

ZorSy wrote:
c'mon mate, 175 TD in this post altogether can be taken as your personal best, considering the whole tread is still alive. You really care that much? Nobody else does, it's just a stupid button to push if bored to death - no harm or even serious thoughts put behind pushing it...

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That is the key problem. People think it's no big deal if trolls run rife.

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You're seeing trolls were perhaps none exists. The 175 might simply be honest opinion or an attempt to give honest feedback. It might be to the point that you have developed a reputation and that is what is following you and not a troll. Just thinking out loud hoping you might ponder the implication in an honest way. No need to agree, but honest consideration might be helpful.

Sammy Yousef said:

It is a disgraceful state of affairs and it can't continue without consequence, whether I choose to continue to participate or not.

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Not everyone goes to the same church as you do ( a metaphor). Where you see disgrace some see improvement and progress.

Sammy Yousef said:

Sammy Yousef wrote:

Sammy Yousef said:

ZorSy wrote:
c'mon mate, 175 TD in this post altogether can be taken as your personal best, considering the whole tread is still alive. You really care that much? Nobody else does, it's just a stupid button to push if bored to death - no harm or even serious thoughts put behind pushing it...

Click to expand...

That is the key problem. People think it's no big deal if trolls run rife. The fact is we've always had flame wars and trolling, but lately people seem to be losing perspective. Trolling has become acceptable. Civilised conversation without name calling is becoming the exception rather than the rule. Not just here - the whole of the net. But here with these changes we're seeing an ever increasing acceptance of it. And 2/3rds of people using TU/TD on this thread seem to be quite content with that.

It is a disgraceful state of affairs and it can't continue without consequence, whether I choose to continue to participate or not.


--
Sammy.
My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.

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I think TD is way more mild alternative to direct attacks and actually prefer it that way - unciivilised arguments we saw in the past could escalate beyond acceptable. TD gives majority of people ability to vent without generating the nausea of meaningless posts, filled with nothing but stupid arguments that had nothing to do with the original post. So is similar with TU - +1 posts would just fill the space and make interesting treads quickly reach 151 posts. Though not an TU/TD user by myself (have a life to live), visits to DPR are recreational activity, light reading. Even if you take TU as "good on ya mate" and TD as "hogwash", and then ignore the whole lot, the rest may end up as a good read. You have your standpoint, you started a tread and got the message across - well, it was accepted with mixed reactions. But, didn't you expect that?

You should have - you did not ask a question on the first place. It was a statement, a comment made by you. Basically, you posted it to vent. After almost 100 replies, we could even summarize the whole thing - but why bother? When I wrote you got 175 TD at time (and some TU as well which did not offset the first by far), you keep on "predicting" the global cataclysm based upon silly thumb button. If nothing else, you proved that DPR moderators will allow the tread to go on regardless of the number of TD - it is not a loss in the popularity contest, it may as well indicate healthy "conversation" about the topic. It's not the end of the world ending up in doom and gloom, it's not that trolls win.

You are revealing the magic mate: thumb button was designed to give trolls to "power" to express themselves without spoiling the game. If only they would stay with that button only!

A while back while reading one of the treads, I suddenly experienced something I tried to put in a graphic form





I think it was an interesting discussion. Nauseating one....And Sammy, I have to tell you - this one of yours is starting to look like one, too....

all the best mate, go out and shoot something, it's beautiful out there (unlike on East Coast of USA at the moment)...


cheers and happy Tuesday!

ZorSy said:

ZorSy wrote:
!
A while back while reading one of the treads, I suddenly experienced something I tried to put in a graphic form



I think it was an interesting discussion. Nauseating one....And Sammy, I have to tell you - this one of yours is starting to look like one, too....

all the best mate, go out and shoot something, it's beautiful out there (unlike on East Coast of USA at the moment)...


cheers and happy Tuesday!

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You took text only communication and gave it a visual expression. Good on you !

Thanks!