M 4/3 vs NEX system

Larry251

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I have been hanging out in the Sony NEX forum and obviously most people ther love their NEX cameras. I got what I thought was a very good deal on a 5N, so I ordered one and it came today. The battery is charging and I'm getting ready to try it out over the next couple of weeks. I'm coming from a bridge camera (Panny FZ35) and an advanced P&S (Canon S90) and I'm not particularly unhappy with them, but wanted to push the IQ up a notch, especially in low light situations. I like the large sensor in the NEX, but like all cameras, nothing is perfect. The lenses are pretty big even though the body is small, the auto focus isn't supposed to be great compared to some of the m 4/3 cameras, there is no built in flash and although I can add an EVF, I couldn't use both fill flash and the EVF at the same time (the upcoming NEX 6 would solve this problem at an increased price) and I'm sure there are several other things I could point out. Nonetheless, it is a great camera.

Micro 4/3 has an appeal in that I think I could get a smaller package which is great for travel and still take a pretty good step up in IQ. My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4? I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.

Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?

Thanks for indulging me :-)
 
I printed some very nice scenes from Germany that were taken with my GF1 which was only 12 MP. Now most mFT bodies are 16 MP and getting better DR and IQ plus they are getting very fast and with contrast detection qat hey are already very accurate. I am outfitting myself with the wonderful 7-14, the better than average 100-300 plus GH2 with the soon to arrive 12-35. When the 35-70 and GH3 come out, I will have a superb travel setup. It will only get better as time goes on and with such nice lenses, the bodies will only add to the enjoyment. YMMV, of course.
 
Larry251 wrote:

I have been hanging out in the Sony NEX forum and obviously most people ther love their NEX cameras. I got what I thought was a very good deal on a 5N, so I ordered one and it came today. The battery is charging and I'm getting ready to try it out over the next couple of weeks. I'm coming from a bridge camera (Panny FZ35) and an advanced P&S (Canon S90) and I'm not particularly unhappy with them, but wanted to push the IQ up a notch, especially in low light situations. I like the large sensor in the NEX, but like all cameras, nothing is perfect. The lenses are pretty big even though the body is small, the auto focus isn't supposed to be great compared to some of the m 4/3 cameras, there is no built in flash and although I can add an EVF, I couldn't use both fill flash and the EVF at the same time (the upcoming NEX 6 would solve this problem at an increased price) and I'm sure there are several other things I could point out. Nonetheless, it is a great camera.

Micro 4/3 has an appeal in that I think I could get a smaller package which is great for travel and still take a pretty good step up in IQ. My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4? I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.

Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?

Thanks for indulging me :-)
The difference in image quality, if by that you mean sensor quality, between the NEX 5N and the E-M5 is practicallly nil. Presumably, the same is true with respect to the E-PM2 and the E-PL5 (same sensor). But the MFT lens selection is better (more to choose from, smaller lenses, better optical quality in at least some cases). On top of that, the E-M5 has a built-in EVF and in-body stabilization (works with every lens). The E-PM2 and E-PL5 have IBIS as well (though a less advanced one) and can use an add-on EVF. And as you suggest, the AF on the NEX might be slower than on current MFT cams though I haven't personally bothered to look into this issue. So it seems it might be a good idea to exchange your 5N for something better while you still have the opportunity. ;)
 
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Member said:
Larry251 wrote:

My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4?
I think in print up to A4 there will not be a noticeable difference. If you go with a less expensive, but modern body, like a G3 or later, you will see more noise on a pixel level, but at A4 and smaller size print the image is so oversampled, that the noise will average out. A G3 is probably the best value in terms of sensor quality/price ratio + built-in EVF, flash, and a fully articulated touch screen.
Member said:
I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.
I have done 16x20 prints with G3, and they look absolutely fabulous. At 16x20 you have around 200 DPI f native resolution, and that gives sharpness and noise performance good enough for close viewing.
Member said:
Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?
Olympus is has been lagging behind in sensor performance, and only since E-M5 it has a better sensor than Panasonic, but that $1000 for body only. It is often praised for very appealing color, and is often suggested for those who do not like to post process.

I have just switched from Panasonic to Olympus, and my opinion is: Panasonic G3 and later have very good color, and with a minor adjustment to Auto WB it holds its own. That's a "set and forget" kind of operation. OTOH, Olympus does not automatically correct chromatic aberration, and not being used to seeing one in Panasonic cameras, it really irritates me. It's a simple adjustment in Light Room, but you have to have Lightroom, and you would have to adjust a majority of shots. Then, Olympus produces inherently sharper images, including JPEGs, because of the lighter antialiasing filter.

So pick your poison: CA on Olympus, or slight softness on Panasonic.

Overall, for just an occasional 16x20 print, and a majority of web and A4 prints, I would recommend a G3 at the low end, and not any of the old Olympuses. At the high end E-M5 is probably the best stills µ4/3 camera at the moment, but it's outside your budget. The G3 will also leave enough money for another lens or two in addition to the kit zoom, and the 20mm pancake will make it quite small.

Here are some of my G3 shots at web sizes, although I am confident they would print large without a problem.

Vlad
















 

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Larry251 wrote:
My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4? I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.
The most recent generation of micro43 cameras can go head to head with APS (NEX) for image quality.
I have made large prints from my GX1 and even from p&s cameras. If the image is good then it should stand up very well to having a large print made.
As for posting to the web (reduced size?) and emails (also reduced size?), you would not see any difference to NEX.
To me, one of the biggest advantages of micro43 is the huge selection of native mount lenses available.
Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?

Personally, I prefer Panasonic to Olympus. But that is a personal like. There is certainly nothing wrong with Olympus, I just do not like their body styles. I prefer the body style of the GF1/GX1 cameras.

Also, if video is at all important to you, Panasonic is by far the best way to go. NEX video is crippled and the cameras overheat and will shut down if you shoot long clips.
 
Some very nice images there Vlad.
 
Agreed. Beautiful images. And thank you for the run down. Very helpful to me. I will also take a look at the preview for the G5 and see what the difference is.

The E-M5 by all accounts is a great camera. I could extend my budget, but honestly, given my level of proficiency and the difference in price to a G3, I'm not sure the extra money is justified for my purposes and I would probably be better served spending some extra money on good lenses.
 
GodSpeaks wrote:
Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?
Personally, I prefer Panasonic to Olympus. But that is a personal like. There is certainly nothing wrong with Olympus, I just do not like their body styles. I prefer the body style of the GF1/GX1 cameras.

Also, if video is at all important to you, Panasonic is by far the best way to go. NEX video is crippled and the cameras overheat and will shut down if you shoot long clips.
I actually prefer the Panasonic body styles as well, but that's a minor issue, assuming they both feel good in the hand. As I mentioned, I do have a Panasonic superzoom. Color rendition (when compared to my Canon) is the one thing that I was slightly disappointed with (but it isn't a deal breaker). Actually, I don't know what is up with the NEX. I only took a couple of pictures with it as a quick test in auto mode, but the shots I took of my wife made her skin look kind of saturated green. I took the same shot with my Canon and the colors looked much more natural, although the quality of the picture (it was indoors without flash) couldn't compare to the NEX. Anyway, it's too early to tell from that.

Video is not a major issue for me, but it is something I use from time to time and I would like it to work well when I want it. I doubt I would be doing videos long enough in length to be too concerned about overheating.

Thanks for your help/response.
 
Thanks everyone for your helpful responses. I know these sort of open-ended "compare X to Y" questions can be a bit tiresome but I find it helpful to get a balanced perspective from users and I appreciate the input.
 
Larry251 wrote:

I have been hanging out in the Sony NEX forum and obviously most people ther love their NEX cameras. I got what I thought was a very good deal on a 5N, so I ordered one and it came today. The battery is charging and I'm getting ready to try it out over the next couple of weeks. I'm coming from a bridge camera (Panny FZ35) and an advanced P&S (Canon S90) and I'm not particularly unhappy with them, but wanted to push the IQ up a notch, especially in low light situations. I like the large sensor in the NEX, but like all cameras, nothing is perfect. The lenses are pretty big even though the body is small, the auto focus isn't supposed to be great compared to some of the m 4/3 cameras, there is no built in flash and although I can add an EVF, I couldn't use both fill flash and the EVF at the same time (the upcoming NEX 6 would solve this problem at an increased price) and I'm sure there are several other things I could point out. Nonetheless, it is a great camera.

Micro 4/3 has an appeal in that I think I could get a smaller package which is great for travel and still take a pretty good step up in IQ. My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4? I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.
You would notice differences in DR and DoF control, liitle else if you mostly need small photos on the web.
Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?
Different type of camera. If you do mostly stills, Olympus is better. If you do mostly videos, Panasonic is likely the better choice.
Thanks for indulging me :-)
 
Larry251 wrote:

Agreed. Beautiful images. And thank you for the run down. Very helpful to me. I will also take a look at the preview for the G5 and see what the difference is.

The E-M5 by all accounts is a great camera. I could extend my budget, but honestly, given my level of proficiency and the difference in price to a G3, I'm not sure the extra money is justified for my purposes and I would probably be better served spending some extra money on good lenses.
 
Larry251 wrote:

I have been hanging out in the Sony NEX forum and obviously most people ther love their NEX cameras. I got what I thought was a very good deal on a 5N, so I ordered one and it came today. The battery is charging and I'm getting ready to try it out over the next couple of weeks. I'm coming from a bridge camera (Panny FZ35) and an advanced P&S (Canon S90) and I'm not particularly unhappy with them, but wanted to push the IQ up a notch, especially in low light situations. I like the large sensor in the NEX, but like all cameras, nothing is perfect. The lenses are pretty big even though the body is small, the auto focus isn't supposed to be great compared to some of the m 4/3 cameras, there is no built in flash and although I can add an EVF, I couldn't use both fill flash and the EVF at the same time (the upcoming NEX 6 would solve this problem at an increased price) and I'm sure there are several other things I could point out. Nonetheless, it is a great camera.

Micro 4/3 has an appeal in that I think I could get a smaller package which is great for travel and still take a pretty good step up in IQ. My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4? I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.

Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?

Thanks for indulging me :-)
Well,

Youalready know what what each format has on one hand, and what it has on another.

And you already got NEX 5N because deal was so good.

With NEX you've got some indispensible features like sweeping panorama, so good luck to you and enjoy your deal.
 
Wonderful photos, thanks for sharing.


Vlad S wrote:
Larry251 wrote:

My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4?
I think in print up to A4 there will not be a noticeable difference. If you go with a less expensive, but modern body, like a G3 or later, you will see more noise on a pixel level, but at A4 and smaller size print the image is so oversampled, that the noise will average out. A G3 is probably the best value in terms of sensor quality/price ratio + built-in EVF, flash, and a fully articulated touch screen.
I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.
I have done 16x20 prints with G3, and they look absolutely fabulous. At 16x20 you have around 200 DPI f native resolution, and that gives sharpness and noise performance good enough for close viewing.
Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?
Olympus is has been lagging behind in sensor performance, and only since E-M5 it has a better sensor than Panasonic, but that $1000 for body only. It is often praised for very appealing color, and is often suggested for those who do not like to post process.

I have just switched from Panasonic to Olympus, and my opinion is: Panasonic G3 and later have very good color, and with a minor adjustment to Auto WB it holds its own. That's a "set and forget" kind of operation. OTOH, Olympus does not automatically correct chromatic aberration, and not being used to seeing one in Panasonic cameras, it really irritates me. It's a simple adjustment in Light Room, but you have to have Lightroom, and you would have to adjust a majority of shots. Then, Olympus produces inherently sharper images, including JPEGs, because of the lighter antialiasing filter.

So pick your poison: CA on Olympus, or slight softness on Panasonic.

Overall, for just an occasional 16x20 print, and a majority of web and A4 prints, I would recommend a G3 at the low end, and not any of the old Olympuses. At the high end E-M5 is probably the best stills µ4/3 camera at the moment, but it's outside your budget. The G3 will also leave enough money for another lens or two in addition to the kit zoom, and the 20mm pancake will make it quite small.

Here are some of my G3 shots at web sizes, although I am confident they would print large without a problem.
 
In your price range, I would definitely look at the G5. It has a different sensor from the G3 and GX1 (it uses an updated sensor from the GH2, which is a really excellent sensor), and has much better color rendition than the GH2 (I have a GH2 and love it, but Panasonic has most definitely learned a few things about their color engines since it was introduced :) )

The advantages of staying with Panasonic vs the Olympus cameras when you are used to the Panasonic UI, are that the Oly UI tends to feel a bit complex. Oly has a deep menu system and you can customize a lot of things, but some of the basics feel more accessible and intuitive in the Panny UI, especially if you are used to the way they set things up from your current camera.

Other advantages are the built-in EVF on the G5 (and G3)....Unless you are going for the E-M5, to get a viewfinder with the Olys, you have to get an external one. I personally am intrigued by the EPL5, but as a second body with the GH2 as my primary....so I don't mind the idea of an external VF in that case. It is, however, a lot more convenient to have the VF built in to the body.....especially if you only plan on having one body :)

I really have been delighted with the results I have been getting from the M43s that I have had over the past 2 years. I've printed up to 11x14 with images from the 12MP sensored EPL1, and had detail to spare...I am quite sure I could have gone up to 16x20 with the best of my shots from it. The GH2 (G5) 16 MP sensor is worlds better than the 12MP one also, and I don't think you would have much of a problem with large prints for sure from that. BTW...I find the sensor in the GH2 to be a bit sharper than the G3 in general...I think they use a stronger AA filter on both the G3 and the GX1 than they do on the GH2 (and I suspect the G5 would be more similar to the GH2 than the G3 in that regard). Of course, these are just my own impressions from having used the G3 and the GH2 (and tried the GX1)....YMMV, as always.....

I think you will find a lot of people in this forum really love the format, just as a lot of folks in the NEX format are delighted with their cameras. I think, since you have tried the NEX and not cared for it, that it makes perfect sense to give the M43s a shot. You might be surprised at how good these little cameras really are...

-J
 
Larry251 wrote:

I have been hanging out in the Sony NEX forum and obviously most people ther love their NEX cameras. I got what I thought was a very good deal on a 5N, so I ordered one and it came today. The battery is charging and I'm getting ready to try it out over the next couple of weeks. I'm coming from a bridge camera (Panny FZ35) and an advanced P&S (Canon S90) and I'm not particularly unhappy with them, but wanted to push the IQ up a notch, especially in low light situations. I like the large sensor in the NEX, but like all cameras, nothing is perfect. The lenses are pretty big even though the body is small, the auto focus isn't supposed to be great compared to some of the m 4/3 cameras, there is no built in flash and although I can add an EVF, I couldn't use both fill flash and the EVF at the same time (the upcoming NEX 6 would solve this problem at an increased price) and I'm sure there are several other things I could point out. Nonetheless, it is a great camera.

Micro 4/3 has an appeal in that I think I could get a smaller package which is great for travel and still take a pretty good step up in IQ. My question (and I do have one), is how much of a difference in Image quality would I really likely see in day-to-day use, assuming that most of my pictures will be shared on the web or e-mail with only a small portion printed and even fewer above A4? I would however like the possibility of doing a print or 2 at say 16 x 20 if I got something great when traveling that I thought was worthy of framing.

Finally, what are the feelings re: Panasonic vs Olympus looking in the $500 - $1000 range including a kit lens?

Thanks for indulging me :-)
I'm obviously partial to M4/3, since I bought into it(Lumix G3) and am very happy with my choice, without any second thoughts. But I do want to be fair.

The NEX-6 will be a great choice. It solves the issues with the 5N body by including a great EVF and a pop up flash(not to mention a standard hot-shoe and dual control dials). AF is almost guaranteed to be better due to hybrid AF, assuming they don't suck at it like Canon. Even with just contrast detect, though NEX AF isn't as fast as M4/3, I wouldn't call it slow either. It also shoots at 10fps. And though the price is increased, it's still less than a body-only only OM-D even with kit lens.

Speaking of lenses, I have to admit that new powerzoom looks very impressive from a practicality standpoint. Yeah, it's not as long at the tele end as the panasonic 14-42X, but it's wider on the wide end, which some people may appreciate more.

My main issue sensor-wise is that I consider the current best Lumix bodies(not counting GH3) quite lacking when it comes to dynamic range compared to the NEX system or the OM-D. For the G3, that's almost two stops less, or one stop with the G5 or GH2. If highlight retention matters more to you than shadow retention, that difference will be exacerbated compared to the OM-D, since it exposes and processes for highlights.

Other than that, the GH2, G5, and G3 are a bit more than one stop behind in low light performance vs the OM-D(not counting IBIS) and NEX-5N, give or take a third of a stop. You could go for one of the new pen bodies, which look like a great compromise, but then you have the issue again of using EVF and fill slash at the same time.

But then are the inherent difference of the system. You may have a few small, jacket-pocketable combinations with NEX, but as a system, M4/3 will be much more manageable. Most M4/3 lenses are affordable and optically excellent at reasonable prices. We also just have a lot more of them at the time. But that gap will narrow over the coming months and years, so I guess it's a matter of how much that matters to you.

In my honest opinion, from an M4/3 fan, the NEX-6 is the best body you could currently buy within your budget. The arguably best-in-class EVF(I prefer the OM-D's for refresh rate and colors, but this one is larger and higher res), awesome handling(assuming similarity to NEX-7), fast burst, potentially great new AF system, features like HDR and built-in panorama, built in flash, and decent external controls add up to a great camera.

However, the best system you can buy into remains M4/3. Both its current offerings and its future lensess look excellent. I would go for the OM-D if you could afford it(there are some $150 off deals going on, so om-d and 14-42 would be in your range).

If not, and perhaps more intelligently, you could get an E-PM2($600) or Lumix G3(~$470) kit with an excellent lens like the 45mm f1.8 for 1000 bucks or less. Heck you could even throw in there that niftyy olympus body cap lens for 50 bucks =P In this case, I'd go with E-PM2 if you care more about size and/or image quality, or G3 if you care more about handling and controls.

Do note that if you don't honestly think you'll upgrade your kit lens, then I'd prolly just say NEX-6 kit.

Good luck with your choice!
 
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Assuming that you won't be buying additional lenses any time soon and will not be bothered by the big lenses on a NEX camera when you do, then I also think that the NEX-6 would be a very nice camera for you to consider. That however means you have to stretch your budget a little as this is a better camera than your 5N. When bought with the 16-50mm kit lens, this NEX-6 offers something that no M43 camera has, i.e. small size as well as a built-in EVF and also built-in flash, plus WiFi and a larger APS-C sensor for more DOF control. So, it is good if you do not want to spend any more money or have any more hassle, e.g. buying an EVF, risking losing it or not having it when you need it, putting on and taking off the flash (and not being able to use both the EVF and the flash).
 
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Buy Both...End of Debate ;-)....I did

All jokes aside, my Out-of-the-Box, thinking actually makes sense:
  1. there is no magic camera, each platform has its strength & weakness
  2. NEX has the best high iso, dynamic range, and bokeh (due to bigger sensor)
  3. but NEX control is terrible, Lens selection is pitiful, and Lens Size is bigger than I like
  4. m43 has AF speed advantage, a healthy RICH lens selections, and smaller Lens Sizes
  5. but many m43 (excluding em5) has terrible high iso
But when you buy and own both systems, you have the best of both world. This is also made possible by that fact that Refurbish m43 camera are so CHEAP I can buy a
  • $119 Olympus E-PL1 refurbish, or
  • $150-$200 Panasonic GF3 body on ebay
They are less than a price of a decent point/shoot.

I woudl keep your 5N, and add a cheapo Refurbished m43 camera to your collection.
 
Many thanks. You make a lot of helpful points for consideration.
 

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