Problem with RX100 images stabilization

Hi,

I just got myself a RX100. Today was my first day shooting it. I got problems with the image stabilization and I'm not sure if it is working correctly at all.

I shot at 1/30s most of the time ( indoors ) but that shouldn't be a problem if I don't zoom in ( even without IS ). Steady shot is set to on. Maybe it needs some time to settle? There is no noise from IS. Is this correct?

I also noticed some corner softness when shooting at F1.8. I think it's normal but would like to get confirmation from other users.

Thank you!

--
Joachim
http://www.littlebigtravelingcamera.com

Hand-held. Check elbows and table-cloth for sharpness. I usually take a burst under these conditions, and at least one frame works out. I also rest the camera on my left fist rather than holding by fingers of both hands. Other people here may have better advice to increase steadiness...





--

NEX-7, Sony a900; SEL18-200mm, CZ135mm, CZ24-70mm, SAL70-300mmG, 50mm F1.4, 100mm F2.8 macro, KM17-35mm, CZ16-80mm, KM11-18mm, SAL18-250mm

Yes... f1.8 is soft but your problem may be the depth of field

1/30 is too slow for a hand held image. What you're experiencing is hand shake. Try 1/50 or 1/60 to be on the safe side. At f1.8 you can also expect soft corners..

With Canon S95 I have no problem shooting 1/15. So I think that Canon image stabilization system is more effective

With f1.8 the lens lets in so much light that in that perfect focus is only achieved for a very narrow vertical focal plane so will get a softer looking image with a sharp nose : )

Joachim Gerstl said:

Hi,

I just got myself a RX100. Today was my first day shooting it. I got problems with the image stabilization and I'm not sure if it is working correctly at all.

I shot at 1/30s most of the time ( indoors ) but that shouldn't be a problem if I don't zoom in ( even without IS ). Steady shot is set to on. Maybe it needs some time to settle? There is no noise from IS. Is this correct?

I also noticed some corner softness when shooting at F1.8. I think it's normal but would like to get confirmation from other users.

Thank you!

--
Joachim
http://www.littlebigtravelingcamera.com

Click to expand...

Thank you all. I just need some time to adapt. I should have posted a sample because it's not a DOF issue. I think it is the lens and me being to critical and to some extend I think that IS is not as effective as on my other cameras.

I've found the same issues shooting w the RX100 after being accustomed to the much more dependable handheld IS on my Canon S95, at 1/30 and even 1/20 or 1/15.


I imagine however that the much bigger sensor on the RX-100 means that camera shake or subject movement is amplified esp on closeups or when repositioning the camera after focus-locking on a particularly point. I've experienced similar on my DSLR. The image from the RX100 is nevertheless more forgiving zoomed out to sizes similar to what other cameras w smaller sensors produce.


In the meantime I've learnt to use shutter priority or simply be a little more steady at 1/30. I wish Sony would allow Auto ISO in M mode though -- it would allow us to set both a decent handheld speed and aperture while tweaking ISO to compensate for light.

This is exactly what I found out. I really would love to have an intelligent Auto ISO menu like the one on my Fuji X100 where I can set a minimum shutter speed up to 1/125s. This is the way it should be done because shooting S means that the camera will choose f1.8 in low light and shooting M means that I have to adjust to the light all the time because of the lack of Auto ISO.

MRK 2010 said:

MRK 2010 wrote:

1/30 is too slow for a hand held image. What you're experiencing is hand shake. Try 1/50 or 1/60 to be on the safe side. At f1.8 you can also expect soft corners..

Click to expand...

Look at my image a couple posts above (expand it fully). I've gone slower than than 1/30 with good, clear images, and I'm sure many others have as well

Joachim Gerstl said:

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

This is exactly what I found out. I really would love to have an intelligent Auto ISO menu like the one on my Fuji X100 where I can set a minimum shutter speed up to 1/125s. This is the way it should be done because shooting S means that the camera will choose f1.8 in low light and shooting M means that I have to adjust to the light all the time because of the lack of Auto ISO.

Click to expand...

I think I understand your pain. The stabilization on the RX100 seems to be worth barely 1 stop, if that. Shooting stable images at low zoom on 1/30 is difficult, which it shouldn't be. If you let the camera do its thing and don't use overlay shooting (like, when you want RAW), you'll have a surprising amount of images with shake blur Disappointing given the rest of the cameras performance.



To compound this problem, P mode often selects shutter speeds that the camera itself (shake icon) knows are insufficient. And as you cannot put Auto ISO to a minimum shutter speed, you're SOL there. So you must move to S mode and guess your zoom level (of all the crap that is continuously displayed, zoom level isn't one of them!). To solve the problem you get with huge apertures, I put the ISO control on the front dial. Maybe putting aperture there would also work, but ISO needs change less than aperture needs, and the back control ring is faster than the front dial.

If I compare this to my old Nikon SLR, where I would put Auto ISO with a minimum shutter speed and use P mode exclusively, I find the RX100 is far harder to use and easier to miss and mess shots up with.


And the sad part of it? This problem isn't a technological limitation of the smaller, compact size. It's bad firmware programming - the problem is entirely solvable, and has been solved by all of Sony's competitors - in software.

Docno said:

Docno wrote:

Docno said:

MRK 2010 wrote:

1/30 is too slow for a hand held image. What you're experiencing is hand shake. Try 1/50 or 1/60 to be on the safe side. At f1.8 you can also expect soft corners..

Click to expand...

Look at my image a couple posts above (expand it fully). I've gone slower than than 1/30 with good, clear images, and I'm sure many others have as well

Click to expand...

Nobody's disputing it's possible to get *a* sharp image at 1/30. But one generally wants *all* images to be sharp, and that's just very hard to do consistently at 1/30, with the RX100.

Thank you I will try that: to put ISO on the "aperture ring". But you are right: It's very easy to solve this topic with a better firmware.

just like it is done in the Fuji X100. I can select a max ISO level and also a minimum shutter speed. Normally I choose 1/60 but sometimes 1/125 to avoid blur from subject movement.

alfpang said:

alfpang wrote:

I imagine however that the much bigger sensor on the RX-100 means that camera shake or subject movement is amplified esp on closeups or when repositioning the camera after focus-locking on a particularly point.

Click to expand...

I think the effect you are describing is out of focus results due to the shallower depth of field of larger sensors.

However, in therms of camera shake per se, the opposite is true: the bigger the sensor/negative, the less evident the shake when the image is enlarged to a fixed size. All other things being equal (and they aren't) the 1" sensor on the DX100 should yield less blurry images.

Skuto said:

Skuto wrote:

Skuto said:

Docno wrote:

Skuto said:

MRK 2010 wrote:

1/30 is too slow for a hand held image. What you're experiencing is hand shake. Try 1/50 or 1/60 to be on the safe side. At f1.8 you can also expect soft corners..

Click to expand...

Look at my image a couple posts above (expand it fully). I've gone slower than than 1/30 with good, clear images, and I'm sure many others have as well

Click to expand...

Nobody's disputing it's possible to get *a* sharp image at 1/30. But one generally wants *all* images to be sharp, and that's just very hard to do consistently at 1/30, with the RX100.

Click to expand...

When I'm shooting in challenging light, I typically take bursts of shots. Even if I'm down to 1/20, a burst of 3 shots will usually give me at least one sharp shot (anti-shake doing catch up and your hands settling down and just a little luck). With digital, there's obviously no need to get every single shot perfect ... just get enough perfect shots.

Joachim Gerstl said:

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

Hi,

I just got myself a RX100. Today was my first day shooting it. I got problems with the image stabilization and I'm not sure if it is working correctly at all.

I shot at 1/30s most of the time ( indoors ) but that shouldn't be a problem if I don't zoom in ( even without IS ). Steady shot is set to on. Maybe it needs some time to settle? There is no noise from IS. Is this correct?

I also noticed some corner softness when shooting at F1.8. I think it's normal but would like to get confirmation from other users.

Thank you!

--
Joachim
http://www.littlebigtravelingcamera.com

Click to expand...

Greetings!

I have one shot here with f1.8 and 1/125s (S-Mode) used with flash of some young people...I have to say that I don't have the original jpg I made - this has already some sharpening - about 90%, 0.8 and 3 settings in PS Elements.
I don't find it that bad for fully open aperture:



Cheers,
Michael S.

Docno said:

Docno wrote:

When I'm shooting in challenging light, I typically take bursts of shots. Even if I'm down to 1/20, a burst of 3 shots will usually give me at least one sharp shot (anti-shake doing catch up and your hands settling down and just a little luck). With digital, there's obviously no need to get every single shot perfect ... just get enough perfect shots.

Click to expand...

This is fine if your subject doesn't change. I've been doing the same if there's no time to reconfigure ISO/shutter, but still, it just means the image stabilization in the RX100 isn't as good as the rest of the camera.

This doesn't happen with a DSLR and stabilizing lens. The RX100 isn't that, but it should be pointed out if it's going to be touted as a possible replacement. (And if other compacts have better IS/OS, well...)


My main complaint, made elsewhere in this thread, is that the cameras Auto ISO is selecting shutter speeds where the IS can't deliver. This is a flaw.

I'm used to shoot a full frame 5D or the Fuji X100 so I know the effect of limited DOF. The problem I got with the RX100 is that image stabilization seems to be almost non existent. It shouldn't be a problem to handheld 1/30s even without IS at 28mm. On the RX100 I got blurry shots because of camera shake. I don't want to use S-Mode because in low light the camera would choose f1.8 and the lens isn't sharp wide open in the corners.

I really hope that Sony makes a firmware update that allows to set a shutter speed in AUTO ISO and also that AUTO ISO to be used in M-Mode.

I had a Canon S90 and then a Canon S100. After the second `lens error' on the S100 I now bought the RX100. In many ways it lives up to expectations, but the IS has come as a nasty surprise.


I think I have a steady hand. On my Olympus OM-5 I can take pictures at 1/3s without problems and on the S100 perhaps at 1/4s with a little bit of luck. But I don't get anywhere close with the RX100. It's quite frustrating since I now have to check for sharpness each time I take a picture.

When I bought the RX100 I had assumed that IS was something manufacturers had figured out and was nothing to worry about. I was wrong.

Joachim, in my first day of using RX100, I also noticed the image stabilizer was not very effective when some of my 1/30 sec shots were slightly blurry. I always shoot holding the camera with both hands and as steady as possible. I could shoot 1/15 sec with my Canon G7 and S-90 and still get decently sharp pictures. So I am disappointed with the RX100 steadyshot. Also, I too noticed wide open f1.8 shots were a bit soft, but I expected that and it does not bother me as much as the surprisingly ineffective steadyshot.