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A tad over exposed, maybe.
But then again, maybe that is the effect you were after :)

One thing I've learned from being an E20 owner, lighting is everything!

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Any day you wake up,
and find yourself alive,
is a good day!
:-)
 
I'm in love- oh that was not the question- looks pretty good to me- I like the light reflecting from the eyes, while not beeing in the center- the pupil is completely like it should be- very good!
The chin to neck ratio might have been slightly harder though.

The light in the eye might look better if it was devided once or twice( 2 or 4 quadrants)- but I realy like it, just tried to find some improvements.
 
I like the nice, even lighting without overdue shadows on the face.
But it's severely overexposed and blown out. She looks like a ghost.
Just my two cents.
Russell said:
One of my first studio shots and first shot with my E-10

Click to expand...
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Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
 
I rarely post replies to "critique" requests as I rarely have anything nice to say when people are after critiques.

I like the overexposure.

I dont like the composition. Was this cropped from a larger image? If so I'd like to see it to see how I would have cropped it.

It's too cramped, or something. The eyes are too close to center, its chopped a bit too close to the chin... it's just too tight.

Maybe something closer to this: (It's be easier to have a larger to crop from - it's hard to add)



Anyway, aside from that, I like it.

-GageFX
Russell said:
One of my first studio shots and first shot with my E-10

Click to expand...
 
These aren't "RULES" that I am trying to get at here. It is feelings. Sure there are "rules" and yes, rules are meant to be broken ONCE YOU HAVE LEARNED THEM, but I'm not trying to reinforce rules here. This is just why the photo doesnt work for me,not how it doesnt fit the rules.

Make sense?

-GageFX
GageFX133521 said:
I dont like the composition. Was this cropped from a larger image?
If so I'd like to see it to see how I would have cropped it.

It's too cramped, or something. The eyes are too close to center,
its chopped a bit too close to the chin... it's just too tight.

Maybe something closer to this: (It's be easier to have a larger to
crop from - it's hard to add)
Click to expand...
 
That is fine, I love all comments good or bad :-) Well with this shot I was trying to do a high key one. This was actually used for a headshot for my girlfriend when she tried out for the Houston Texans Cheerleaders. She wanted a shot that would kind of look different and stand out from all the others.

This was actually the original image with out being cropped. I was trying to get the up close in your face look.

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming I love to hear what other people think.
GageFX said:
Make sense?

-GageFX
GageFX133521 said:
I dont like the composition. Was this cropped from a larger image?
If so I'd like to see it to see how I would have cropped it.

It's too cramped, or something. The eyes are too close to center,
its chopped a bit too close to the chin... it's just too tight.

Maybe something closer to this: (It's be easier to have a larger to
crop from - it's hard to add)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
GageFX said:
These aren't "RULES" that I am trying to get at here. It is
feelings.
Click to expand...
GageFX133521 said:
GageFX133521 said:
It's too cramped, or something. The eyes are too close to center,
its chopped a bit too close to the chin... it's just too tight.

Maybe something closer to this: (It's be easier to have a larger to
crop from - it's hard to add)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
But Gage, didn't you actually use a rule here ("rule of thirds") by adding to the bottom and thus bringing here eyes upwards in the photo?

I imagined pretty much the same "recomposition" before I even saw yours. I think it brings the eyes back into a better position and better balance.

To someone who has their eyes trained for "proper" composition, it think it BECOMES a feeling that is not always consciously acknowledged.

--
markE
pbase supporter

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke/natural_world
 
markE59102 said:
But Gage, didn't you actually use a rule here ("rule of thirds")
by adding to the bottom and thus bringing here eyes upwards in the
photo?
Click to expand...
Didnt use any rules, but interesting howa more pleasing composition happens to follow one of the rules. THink that might be why they're rules? :)

You have to remember that you can break rules, but you have to have a reason for doing so. Breaking a rule without a good reason just produces substandard photography. INterestingly, breaking rules WITH good reason produces PHENOMINAL photography. While I can break rules to good effect, I am certainly not to the point at which I can break them with phenominal effect. Some day.

-GageFX
 
GageFX133521 said:
Didnt use any rules, but interesting howa more pleasing composition
happens to follow one of the rules. THink that might be why they're
rules? :)
Click to expand...
I just wanted to add one other thing, practices really helps. There are alot of people (usually art students, which is why I despise them so) who think they can just bypass the rules in the name of art. Ever notice the great difference between what passes as "art" these days in contrast to the old masters? I cant stress this enough - LEARN THE RULES. That's why I direct so many people to Monte's lessons. He knows the rules, he knows how to TEACH the rules and he knows how to break the rules. I dont know if you remember the uproar in the lighting forum when I posted Monte's portrait of V aand me and everyone loved it. It was the most "innovative", "original" portrait they had seen in a while. When I mentioned it was Monte, all of a sudden it was boring and just like the rest. Well, it cant be both.

I keep coming back and looking at correction to this headshot. I dont know why, exactly, I'm drawn to it, maybe it's her eyes, but I keep looking at it and then I think of your comments. And I try to remember what I was thinking when I corrected it. I cant pin it down. Then I tried to think about what I think about when I compose images in camera, and I dont think about it. I am VERY pleased to say it comes naturally and I dont follow rules - at least not consciously. A couple months ago when I posted various photos and explained the compositions - I didnt think about ANY of it when I was shooting, but it all falls into place when you break them down.

I dont know if I told this before, but it wasnt too long ago that I first really cared about composition. I swear to you that 3 years ago I couldnt take a picture to save my life. I wont post a portrait I took 3 years ago because I am so embarassed, but it was awful. The customer loved it and I thought that was what mattered. It's not. Doing it RIGHT matters and the customer will love it that much more.

So, the story is, I was at a Superbowl party about 3 years years ago and I took a snap of a friend watching the game. It was a poloroid. He saw the picture and REEMED me. HE couldn't belive I could take that bad of a photo and he wouldnt let it go. I said "It's just a cr@ppy snapshot of you watching the game. You think you can do better?" And he did. Just a simple snapshot but he actually applied compositional guidelines. NOw, it's still just a stupid photo of me watching the game, but that photo changed my life. I credit that photo and that friend for teaching me how to shoot even though I had been shooting for 15 years before that. Sad, huh?

Just the other night when I was going over prints from a recent shoot and someone else complimented me, I credited my friend for teaching me how to shoot.

What's my point? I started applying the rules and thinking about it and now, a reletively short time later, I dont have to think about it and it all falls into place. Why? I learned and followed the rules.

Same for lighting. Learn what PROPER lighting looks like, learn to know it when you see it, learn how to duplicate it, then practice, practice, practice. It will then come naturally.

Too many people trying to ignore rules and do it on their own in the name of "learning" and "art". Just put the ego aside and learn the fundamentals. Where would the Lakers be if they hadnt learned to dribble and make jump shots? Gotta learn the fundamentals - you dont start with 360 slams.

Just my rant.

-GageFX
 
You caught her expression nicely. Intriguing look she is giving you.

But the overall look of the photo is very dated and counter-productive in light of it's intended use.

I never hire models that have a book of blown out, highly over-exposed photos. And I never do comp shots this way. Rather than a unique look it's a fast route to being dropped on the discard pile. People who hire talent distrust photos like these.

I mean she's a beautiful woman. You don't need to resort to dated Darkroom Age tricks with her. (Besides, these days we've got the digital airbrush and clone tool :)

You should try it again with your exposure more under control, make life easy for yourself and drop the white top in favour of something that won't blow out, and keep Gage's rule of thirds suggestions in mind (and feel free to break the rule of thirds as well)

Doug B
Torontowide.com
 
Gage,

Great lessons in there. I have read a couple of your post where you bring it from deep down inside & this is one of them. Good job my friend.

Bill
GageFX said:
GageFX133521 said:
Didnt use any rules, but interesting howa more pleasing composition
happens to follow one of the rules. THink that might be why they're
rules? :)
Click to expand...
I just wanted to add one other thing, practices really helps. There
are alot of people (usually art students, which is why I despise
them so) who think they can just bypass the rules in the name of
art. Ever notice the great difference between what passes as "art"
these days in contrast to the old masters? I cant stress this
enough - LEARN THE RULES. That's why I direct so many people to
Monte's lessons. He knows the rules, he knows how to TEACH the
rules and he knows how to break the rules. I dont know if you
remember the uproar in the lighting forum when I posted Monte's
portrait of V aand me and everyone loved it. It was the most
"innovative", "original" portrait they had seen in a while. When I
mentioned it was Monte, all of a sudden it was boring and just like
the rest. Well, it cant be both.

I keep coming back and looking at correction to this headshot. I
dont know why, exactly, I'm drawn to it, maybe it's her eyes, but I
keep looking at it and then I think of your comments. And I try to
remember what I was thinking when I corrected it. I cant pin it
down. Then I tried to think about what I think about when I compose
images in camera, and I dont think about it. I am VERY pleased to
say it comes naturally and I dont follow rules - at least not
consciously. A couple months ago when I posted various photos and
explained the compositions - I didnt think about ANY of it when I
was shooting, but it all falls into place when you break them down.

I dont know if I told this before, but it wasnt too long ago that I
first really cared about composition. I swear to you that 3 years
ago I couldnt take a picture to save my life. I wont post a
portrait I took 3 years ago because I am so embarassed, but it was
awful. The customer loved it and I thought that was what mattered.
It's not. Doing it RIGHT matters and the customer will love it that
much more.

So, the story is, I was at a Superbowl party about 3 years years
ago and I took a snap of a friend watching the game. It was a
poloroid. He saw the picture and REEMED me. HE couldn't belive I
could take that bad of a photo and he wouldnt let it go. I said
"It's just a cr@ppy snapshot of you watching the game. You think
you can do better?" And he did. Just a simple snapshot but he
actually applied compositional guidelines. NOw, it's still just a
stupid photo of me watching the game, but that photo changed my
life. I credit that photo and that friend for teaching me how to
shoot even though I had been shooting for 15 years before that.
Sad, huh?

Just the other night when I was going over prints from a recent
shoot and someone else complimented me, I credited my friend for
teaching me how to shoot.

What's my point? I started applying the rules and thinking about it
and now, a reletively short time later, I dont have to think about
it and it all falls into place. Why? I learned and followed the
rules.

Same for lighting. Learn what PROPER lighting looks like, learn to
know it when you see it, learn how to duplicate it, then practice,
practice, practice. It will then come naturally.

Too many people trying to ignore rules and do it on their own in
the name of "learning" and "art". Just put the ego aside and learn
the fundamentals. Where would the Lakers be if they hadnt learned
to dribble and make jump shots? Gotta learn the fundamentals - you
dont start with 360 slams.

Just my rant.

-GageFX
Click to expand...
--
Oly E-20, Oly 4040Z, FL-40 pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/papa51
 
I don't take many portraits and screw them up 90% of the time I try. I know the rules (at least some) but in the heat of the moment often forget them.

Here is what I do, which I think Russel did, which I think is the big screw up that most of us do: I focus on the eyes, the most important part of the picture, and then forget to recompose. The eyes turn up in the middle of the picture and it looses something. Luckily for me I also end up with a ton of wasted space above the models head and can crop my way to a better picture.

I'm a person who can usually tell if I applied the rules correctly after the shot but sometimes forget them during the shoot. When you were getting the hang of it, how did you consciously keep them in mind?

And to Russel - I like the picture, but I like Gage's "fix" better. Your girl friend is very pretty.
 
Mark said:
GageFX133521 said:
But Gage, didn't you actually use a rule here ("rule of thirds")
by adding to the bottom and thus bringing here eyes upwards in the
photo?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Gage said:
Didnt use any rules, but interesting howa more pleasing composition
happens to follow one of the rules. THink that might be why they're
rules? :)
Click to expand...
Without getting into a "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" debate, you did use a rule, whether it came from a conscious decision or a learned skill. It's still a rule.

From my previous post:
GageFX133521 said:
To someone who has their eyes trained for "proper" composition, it think it BECOMES a feeling that is not always consciously acknowledged.
Click to expand...
I believe it became a "more pleasing composition" BECAUSE you've trained your eye to see this. I think we are talking of exactly the same thing here, Gage.

--
markE
pbase supporter

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke/natural_world
 
markE59102 said:
I believe it became a "more pleasing composition" BECAUSE you've
trained your eye to see this. I think we are talking of exactly the
same thing here, Gage.
Click to expand...
I agree, I spent my years in college working on a photo degree and trying to learn all of these rules, but I am not sure if I agree with these rules beacause that is what I have learned or if it is beacuse that is what I think makes a good picture.
 
It al depends on your subject matter. I cant really talk about landscapes - they just aren't my thing (landscapes aren't my bag, baby!).

Okay. I have my subject - a pretty girl. I decide how much I want in the shot - head to chest. I then decide what the focus point is. Wherever I focus the camera will usually be my focus point. For the "Rule of Thirds", I must now put that focus point in a thirds position. The strongest are the intersections of the tic-tac-toe board, but any will do. You have to remember balance. If you have ONE thing in your photo and you put that on an intersection, you can usually get away with not having anything else. As that moves towards the outside, you need a balancing object.

Okay, now I swear I didnt plan any of this when I changed the headshot, I just did what FELT right.



But if you'll notice, a main feature falls on 3 of the 4 intersections and a negative space falls on the fourth. NOt all necessary for good composition, but interesting. Then in the left third you have dark, in the right third you have light balancing it. It just worked out that way.

That is "proper" composition. Then we have this:



Proper? Imporoper? Certainly not "normal", but I like it and it FEELS good, so lets check it out. (I haven't done this for this image so I may be in for a surprise.)



No surprise.

Pouty lips are at an intersection. The whole face is mostly at the intersection with eyes in the top third. As usual, for me, we have the breasts on another third line with a breast at an intersection. Finally, we have the image going to black right at the right third line.

Honestly, sometimes when I shoot stuff I dont think it follows rules at all. Take this one, I was worried it would fail the test miserably, but it passed with flying colors. It doesnt SEEM right. It FEELS right but seems a bit off. It isnt very USUAL, but when you break it down, there are reasons it works.

So, to teach yourself to notice, look at your subject and look where he is in your frame. This goes back to the Superbowl photo. I placed my friend in the center because he was the subject and I didnt care about anything else. When he took the picture he put me on the right third line, the TV or glow from the TV was in the left third and it balanced. BUT, remember to see EVERYTHING that is in frame. Do you shoot firearms? A major rule is to not only see your target, but see what is BEYOND your target. What will you hit if you miss? So look at all the elements and see how they fit and make them work.

LEt me know what yu think.

-GageFX
TrentMcD said:
I don't take many portraits and screw them up 90% of the time I
try. I know the rules (at least some) but in the heat of the
moment often forget them.

Here is what I do, which I think Russel did, which I think is the
big screw up that most of us do: I focus on the eyes, the most
important part of the picture, and then forget to recompose. The
eyes turn up in the middle of the picture and it looses something.
Luckily for me I also end up with a ton of wasted space above the
models head and can crop my way to a better picture.

I'm a person who can usually tell if I applied the rules correctly
after the shot but sometimes forget them during the shoot. When
you were getting the hang of it, how did you consciously keep them
in mind?

And to Russel - I like the picture, but I like Gage's "fix" better.
Your girl friend is very pretty.
Click to expand...
 
You are ABSOLUTELY correct.

-GageFX
markE said:
Mark said:
markE59102 said:
But Gage, didn't you actually use a rule here ("rule of thirds")
by adding to the bottom and thus bringing here eyes upwards in the
photo?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Gage said:
Didnt use any rules, but interesting howa more pleasing composition
happens to follow one of the rules. THink that might be why they're
rules? :)
Click to expand...
Without getting into a "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"
debate, you did use a rule, whether it came from a conscious
decision or a learned skill. It's still a rule.

From my previous post:
markE59102 said:
To someone who has their eyes trained for "proper" composition, it think it BECOMES a feeling that is not always consciously acknowledged.
Click to expand...
I believe it became a "more pleasing composition" BECAUSE you've
trained your eye to see this. I think we are talking of exactly the
same thing here, Gage.

--
markE
pbase supporter

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke/natural_world
Click to expand...
 
GageFX said:
-GageFX
markE said:
Mark said:
GageFX133521 said:
But Gage, didn't you actually use a rule here ("rule of thirds")
by adding to the bottom and thus bringing here eyes upwards in the
photo?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Gage said:
Didnt use any rules, but interesting howa more pleasing composition
happens to follow one of the rules. THink that might be why they're
rules? :)
Click to expand...
Without getting into a "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"
debate, you did use a rule, whether it came from a conscious
decision or a learned skill. It's still a rule.

From my previous post:
GageFX133521 said:
To someone who has their eyes trained for "proper" composition, it think it BECOMES a feeling that is not always consciously acknowledged.
Click to expand...
I believe it became a "more pleasing composition" BECAUSE you've
trained your eye to see this. I think we are talking of exactly the
same thing here, Gage.

--
markE
pbase supporter

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke/natural_world
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Oly E-20, Oly 4040Z, FL-40 pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/papa51
 
GageFX said:
Honestly, sometimes when I shoot stuff I dont think it follows
rules at all. Take this one, I was worried it would fail the test
miserably, but it passed with flying colors. It doesnt SEEM right.
It FEELS right but seems a bit off. It isnt very USUAL, but when
you break it down, there are reasons it works.
Click to expand...
This is my take.

At first, when viewing this photo from a critical eye (which is what we were consciously doing), we see something out of the norm. So it might be easy to automatically react with an analytical mind, and think, "This photo is out of balance. It's breaking a well-known rule." But I think we are taking that view because when we see a headshot, we usually think of the eyes as a point of interest. So when we see the eyes out of the sweet spot, we just "know" this photo isn't right. But do we feel the same way? I didn't. Just like Gage, I felt this photo was good, or "right". So I asked myself, "Why does it feel right?" I immediately looked at what crossed the intersections and saw...the lips. Of course, it's the LIPS! This photo IS right! It's just my narrow minded view of what I EXPECT to be the point of interest.

I guess the rules can still be kept, even we it SEEMS they've been broken. That was a great example to help us understand what we don't always see (but sometimes feel) when viewing a photograph.
GageFX133521 said:
LEt me know what yu think.
Click to expand...
I think your post rocks!

--
markE
pbase supporter

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke/natural_world
 
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