Inigo Montoya
Forum Pro
Odd that nit-pickers would be spouting off about a camera that can't even get out of the way of its own viewfinder.
From Phil's review:
And that's with no add-on lens tube or anything
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Phil's c-/d-50 review and pro canon-ism
- Thread starter DenisKlim
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From Phil's review:
And that's with no add-on lens tube or anything
P
Phil Askey
Guest
Changing settings brings too many variables. I always consider this though, most of the time there's little point increasing or decreasing sharpening, tone, color etc. to affect the results of a test, you'll simply confuse and anger the loser.
If both cameras in a comparison have similar features (aperture priority, manual WB) we will use them to avoid lens sharpness or color cast. We always provide samples of what effect the parameters have on images.
Basically there's more than enough information in the reviews for you to make up your own mind, that's the idea. I can't comment for other reviewers.
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com
If both cameras in a comparison have similar features (aperture priority, manual WB) we will use them to avoid lens sharpness or color cast. We always provide samples of what effect the parameters have on images.
Basically there's more than enough information in the reviews for you to make up your own mind, that's the idea. I can't comment for other reviewers.
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Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com
I think using your and Phil's logic even the 330 is probably a better choice than just about anything else.
Well, Phill does this for living (hence obvious biases here and there) and are you being reimbursed too or just being dillusional?
Well, Phill does this for living (hence obvious biases here and there) and are you being reimbursed too or just being dillusional?
My point is the same.
--The S400 is indeed a better choice than the C-50, I'm sure
according to most people. It's smaller than the C-50, uses CF, and
the most important thing - it has better image quality.
And one needs not make this seem like it is only a "Phil" thing.
Just look at the posts on the forum, all forums, not just the Canon
or Oly form. The S400 is clearly the more popular and more wanted
camera and you see various posts about it and and you see various
comparison posts about the S400 and other cameras.
--Meanwhile, Phil goes out of his way in the Canon S400 review to
point out that the value of the Canon will be better if its price
drops $50, "as it may well be in six months time"!
Just unbelievable! At least, it seems like that Olympus cameras
sell pretty well, despite Phil's reviews (and sometimes, lack of
reviews).
In fact, i like the OLY c-40 better than Canon s400; out of many
advantages of OLY c-40 (aa batteries, more flexible feature set,
etc etc) the Pixel Mapping feature that most digicam owners will
inevitably need one or two years down the road puts any of the
olies ahead of the competition!
we rest our case now
Well, let me pile on!
I suspect we'll get more fuel on the fire once Phil's Canon S400
review is released. (He had the S400's battery performance listed
in the battery performance table in the C-50z review, so I am
guessing that he has a S400 under review right now.)
The S400 and C-50z are selling for roughly the same price ($450 for
S400 and $435 for C-50z at buydig; and comparable prices elsewhere
if you shop around). Phil said he couldn't recommend the C-50z
because of the value for the money and the features of the camera.
It'll be very interesting to see if he recommends the S400 even
though the S400 has almost the same price as the C-50z and less
features than the C-50z (no shutter priority, no aperture priority,
no manual exposure, no User Mode, no wireless remote, only 4MP vs.
5MP). I just have a feeling that Phil will find something in the
S400 that will make it a "recommended" or "highly recommended"
product. We'll see.
http://www/pbase.com/agent2099
http://www/pbase.com/agent2099
Alien
Leading Member
1. No, not all reviewers shoot the pics only at default settings. An example would be imaging-resource.com, where series of pics are published, and more important tweaks that give the best possible pic are shown.
2. I think, that shooting at default settings only, cannot show a cameras true potential.
3. In the C-50 review at one point there is commented that the C-50's resolution is the best. Then in another test pic, again as commented, probably due to the noise level at 1/4th seconds shutter speed the C-50 didn't resolve as good as the others. OK, at 1/4th it didn't perform well, but what about 1/60, 1/125, 1/250 etc. The latter speeds are more likely to be used. There are two resolution testing parts in the review which indicate the contrary. This type of testing and resulting the material cannot convince me.
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Alien
Keith Schmidt
Veteran Member
If not, you probably shouldn't be commenting on the validity of the review. I originally bought the C50 (upgrading from a Canon S100) right after Xmas. It took beautiful pictures in bright daylight, but was basically unusable in normal indoor conditions. I found it nearly impossible to hold it perfectly still - if you didn't, nearly every picture was out of focus. Not sure if this is from shutter lag (tests in reviews indicate it's not) or from the difficulty in pushing the button all the way after pre-focus. I then bought an S45 to compare to it, and lo and behold, almost all of my pictures are in focus. I returned the C50 and I wouln't use the C50 again if you gave it to me for free.
Read the user comments in this very forum - you'll find very few people who prefer it over the older D40, and these are pro-Olympus people.
I don't know whether Phil has a bias one way or the other, but I'd suggest actually using a camera before you go off on a rant about a review for a particular brand.
Just because Phil doesn't like the C50, doesn't mean you're particular model of Olympus is bad. Why do you need Phil to justify your purchase anyway - find a camera that works well for you and be happy with it. End of story.
Just my 2 cents!
--
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
Read the user comments in this very forum - you'll find very few people who prefer it over the older D40, and these are pro-Olympus people.
I don't know whether Phil has a bias one way or the other, but I'd suggest actually using a camera before you go off on a rant about a review for a particular brand.
Just because Phil doesn't like the C50, doesn't mean you're particular model of Olympus is bad. Why do you need Phil to justify your purchase anyway - find a camera that works well for you and be happy with it. End of story.
Just my 2 cents!
--
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
LOL! Missed that in his review. That is good!Odd that nit-pickers would be spouting off about a camera that
can't even get out of the way of its own viewfinder.
From Phil's review:
And that's with no add-on lens tube or anything
--
Keith Schmidt
Veteran Member
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/olympus/c50z-review/index.html
"The closest competition is probably the Canon PowerShot S45 -- a camera which I'd probably rank a little higher than the C-50Z despite having a lower resolution -- but both are worth a close look."
--
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
"The closest competition is probably the Canon PowerShot S45 -- a camera which I'd probably rank a little higher than the C-50Z despite having a lower resolution -- but both are worth a close look."
--
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
Gene Miller77510
Senior Member
I'm sorry, I don't see the bias on dcresource as I do in Phil's conclusions, at least that is my perception. Both review sites are good, but Phil's bias in favor of Canon and against Olympus shows up in his conclusions to his reviews, at least that is the way I see it.
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
Gene Miller77510
Senior Member
I was in this thread commenting back to him within this thread and it disappeared, missing without a trace. I will still post my remarks here since I cannot find his denial of bias against Olympus.
Phil,
This is a quote from the conclusion on your last review of the C50:
"A few niggles remained however, these included the demosaic / jagged diagonal artifacts we have seen on other Olympus digital cameras, a lack of manual white balance and a tendency for auto white balance to drift slightly."
When you say "we have seen on other Olympus digital cameras", I wonder why you haven't seen that problem on other digicams and why only on Olympus. Another point you made reviewing the Canon was the soft forcus and yet you gave it it a "Highly Recommended". I just don't understand that based on your Cons.
Phil, don't get me wrong, you have a right to have whatever bias you desire. You also have the right to deny your bias, but I read it in your conclusions. My bias is toward Olympus. I own three of them and think their performance is fantastic. Once I bought a Nikon and didn't like it and took it back, so I tend to have a bias against Nikon (of course I'm talking about their consumer digital cameras).
With the C5050, if one learns to use the camera correctly things like the demosaic / jagged diagonal artifacts are not there. All digital cameras have problems under certain circumstances with artifacts at this stage of this wonder technology we call digicams.
You put a lot of effort into your reviews and the non techy people mainly read your conclusions, which at times I feel are not in accordance with your good reporting of details in your reviews. That is why I feel you have your bias and in saying that, we all have our bias. Take care.
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
Phil,
This is a quote from the conclusion on your last review of the C50:
"A few niggles remained however, these included the demosaic / jagged diagonal artifacts we have seen on other Olympus digital cameras, a lack of manual white balance and a tendency for auto white balance to drift slightly."
When you say "we have seen on other Olympus digital cameras", I wonder why you haven't seen that problem on other digicams and why only on Olympus. Another point you made reviewing the Canon was the soft forcus and yet you gave it it a "Highly Recommended". I just don't understand that based on your Cons.
Phil, don't get me wrong, you have a right to have whatever bias you desire. You also have the right to deny your bias, but I read it in your conclusions. My bias is toward Olympus. I own three of them and think their performance is fantastic. Once I bought a Nikon and didn't like it and took it back, so I tend to have a bias against Nikon (of course I'm talking about their consumer digital cameras).
With the C5050, if one learns to use the camera correctly things like the demosaic / jagged diagonal artifacts are not there. All digital cameras have problems under certain circumstances with artifacts at this stage of this wonder technology we call digicams.
You put a lot of effort into your reviews and the non techy people mainly read your conclusions, which at times I feel are not in accordance with your good reporting of details in your reviews. That is why I feel you have your bias and in saying that, we all have our bias. Take care.
--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
Keith Schmidt
Veteran Member
Gene,
I don't really think DCResource is biased either. It was my attempt at sarcasm. I don't think the C50 is that great of a camera. I just found it amusing that DCResource says the S45 is a better camera than the C50, despite being 4 mp vs 5 on the C50. In one of the earlier posts in this thread, someone was mentioning that the C50 must be better because it has more mp.
Keith
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
I don't really think DCResource is biased either. It was my attempt at sarcasm. I don't think the C50 is that great of a camera. I just found it amusing that DCResource says the S45 is a better camera than the C50, despite being 4 mp vs 5 on the C50. In one of the earlier posts in this thread, someone was mentioning that the C50 must be better because it has more mp.
Keith
--
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
Gene Miller77510
Senior Member
I can understand that. But some consideration should be mentioned that some of the cons can be somewhat corrected with additional tweaking by the user. A lot of people do not know that.
You do a fair job in that respect.
I agree with you there, it is just that some of your conclusions to me seems bias at times in favor of Canon and against Olympus, at least that is my perception. Take care.
--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
Keith Schmidt
Veteran Member
The C50's only advantages from a spec standpoint are @ 1/2 inch shorter, slightly lighter and 5 Mp. (and the remote - that was definitely a cool thing) Having owned both, the images from the 4 Mp S45 are much better and contain far less noise than the C50. Megapixels are absolutely not the most important aspect of a high quality image. The S45 has far more manual controls and is definitely much closer to a Pro-SLR than the C50 (although I don't personally place it in that category).
I was originally turned off by the s45 because of it's looks - for some reason it looks huge compared to the C50. Get them side by side, and you'll see they are identical in size with the exception of the extra 1/2 inch of length on the s45. So my point is, if you don't consider the S45 an ultra-compact, then neither is the C50!
As far as battery life, having used both, I honestly can't see any real differnce.
Keith
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
I was originally turned off by the s45 because of it's looks - for some reason it looks huge compared to the C50. Get them side by side, and you'll see they are identical in size with the exception of the extra 1/2 inch of length on the s45. So my point is, if you don't consider the S45 an ultra-compact, then neither is the C50!
As far as battery life, having used both, I honestly can't see any real differnce.
Keith
--
Canon Powershot S45
http://www.pbase.com/themitty
Gene Miller77510
Senior Member
The only great cameras are the ones I own because I don't use the ones I don't have. I don't have the C50, but I think it is a decent camera if one is looking for small size and a lot of manual features. The S45 has some advantages over the C50 and the C50 has some advantages over the S45. Neither cameras are great, but both are good. My bias towards cameras have been in favor of Olympus because I like the way they handle the color. It is like buying one kind of film over another type of film. Now in this digital world we have to decide which camera favors our taste and decide if the quality matches our taste. It is all bias. Take care.
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
Alfred Molon
Senior Member
Phil seems to have a problem with Olympus. He waited for ages before reviewing the C2000, never reviewed the C4040 and was the last of the major sites to review the 5050.
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus4040_5050/
http://www.molon.de/4040.html
http://www.molon.de/5050.html
Gene Miller77510
Senior Member
I cannot comment on his timing when reviewing Olympus cameras. A reviewer waits until a company sends the equipment before they can evaluate and make a review. That may be Olympus' fault and not Phil. But even though Phil denies his bias toward Olympus, my perception of his conclusions shows me he has a bias against Olympus and in favor of Canon. It is hard for any of us to see our own biases. But all of us can see the great photos that Olympus cameras can produce in the hands of so many great photographers. Other makes of cameras do well also, but my bias is toward Olympus and heavily in favor of the C5050 even though I just bought the Stylus 300 and not the C5050. BTW, I always enjoy your comments. Take care.
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!
How honest are you Keith? The fact is that c-50 is almost a third smaller and a third lighter! The interesting part is that in order tro avoid comparing them side by side Phil stuck the clunky Canons in to PRO-SLR category, although we know they dont belong there for second and we know whose specs are better (and which camera lasts 1,5 times longer too!): its that of oly c-50! It has better resolution, and more features (with several minor exceptions), so all of which tells me its a better deal too. less money, better quality, better features and more convenience = better product, no?
canon is not terribly bad after all, its just a total mediocrity being very aggressive about its marketing, thats all. so, its client base feels a bit touchy feely and usually VERY defensive instead of being objective.
relax-- you will understand what we meant when you'll get some hot pixels on your canon and the only thing they will able to offer is to have it serviced--whereas any oly owner can just take advantage of the applet built into their cameras called "pixel mapping"! I would also suggest to go back to your Canon forum and read about missallignemnt problems of G3's and G2's--it would not hurt to test yours to--you may be up for another discovery.
canon is not terribly bad after all, its just a total mediocrity being very aggressive about its marketing, thats all. so, its client base feels a bit touchy feely and usually VERY defensive instead of being objective.
relax-- you will understand what we meant when you'll get some hot pixels on your canon and the only thing they will able to offer is to have it serviced--whereas any oly owner can just take advantage of the applet built into their cameras called "pixel mapping"! I would also suggest to go back to your Canon forum and read about missallignemnt problems of G3's and G2's--it would not hurt to test yours to--you may be up for another discovery.
thanks Phil. Agreed to disagree. As long as you know its clear and apparent to some of your readers, thats all. After all, most people reading this will be the so-called COME-BACK customers, folks who tested the waters with digicams by now and want to upgrade. Thank goodness it wasn't only Canon that they played with, so since they too have an idea of whats what in digicam world your bias towards canon will be more apparent to them as well. Just a thought, mate. Good work otherwise!
P
Phil Askey
Guest
Bottom of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong3/page18.asp
Bottom of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/hp850/page12.asp
Other issues, bottom of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagef100/page11.asp
Other issues, bottom of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp5700/page18.asp
Need I go on?
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong3/page18.asp
Bottom of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/hp850/page12.asp
Other issues, bottom of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagef100/page11.asp
Other issues, bottom of this page:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp5700/page18.asp
Need I go on?
--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com
P
Phil Askey
Guest
When I post an 'average' review of any camera I get the same response from the relevant forum... Apparently I am anti-Nikon, anti-Canon, anti-Olympus, anti-Minolta, anti-Sony etc. etc.
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com
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Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com
the data is always there, in the reviews. Look through the reviews of the Olympus and Canon cameras. You'll see mentions of CA, noise, jaggies in both camera lines. Yet, when the final subjective judgment is rendered on the significance of these problems, it is amazing to see that the Canon cameras ALWAYS meet the hurdle, whereas the Olympus cameras just isn't quite up to par.
Look through the last five Olympus camera reviews and the last five Canon camera reviews, and I am sure that they all mentioned problems in the images from both Canon and Olympus cameras. Yet, look at how many Olympus cameras are "recommended" or "highly recommended". I haven't check yet, but I think that maybe the last five Canon reviews were ALL "highly recommended".
The bias is not in mentioning the flaws, but in the conclusions on them. IMO.
Look through the last five Olympus camera reviews and the last five Canon camera reviews, and I am sure that they all mentioned problems in the images from both Canon and Olympus cameras. Yet, look at how many Olympus cameras are "recommended" or "highly recommended". I haven't check yet, but I think that maybe the last five Canon reviews were ALL "highly recommended".
The bias is not in mentioning the flaws, but in the conclusions on them. IMO.
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