Shockers !

Bakman_29 · Apr 27, 2003

Last night I was allowed to shoot on "Shockers" which is a major hardstyle/techno party here in Holland, although it was still a hassle to get in with my 10D and lenses.

I was confronted with extremely dark lighting conditions.

Is it possible to use the ST-E2 with the built-in flash ? It would be very convenient to focus as I don't want to use a big speedlite, as 7 hours of carrying all this stuff is already hard enough, not to mention with all these hurds of people who push you around.... ;-)

I didn't use the AF-flash assist as most people are posing and think after a flash that picture has been taken, I didn't want to spoil the moment, so I tried manual focus, ofcourse a disaster without light....obviously the AF-assist was the better option, better luck next time ;-)

Comments and constructive criticism always appreciated...!

10D - Sigma 24-70/2.8 - ISO 1600

BaKMaN
--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Marcel D. · Apr 27, 2003

Bakman_29 said:
Last night I was allowed to shoot on "Shockers" which is a major
hardstyle/techno party here in Holland, although it was still a
hassle to get in with my 10D and lenses.

What do you mean with 'hassle'? Did the doorman not believe that you had permission?

Bakman_29 said:
I was confronted with extremely dark lighting conditions.
Is it possible to use the ST-E2 with the built-in flash ? It would

Probably not. Absolutely not on the D60. You can't pop the flash when there is something in the hotshoe.

Bakman_29 said:
be very convenient to focus as I don't want to use a big speedlite,
as 7 hours of carrying all this stuff is already hard enough, not
to mention with all these hurds of people who push you around....

You should definitely get the 550ex (or 440ex). I'm not sure about the Sigma, but on my Canon 24-70 I think I can't use the internal flash because the lens is too big. With the 550EX you get a wider range AND you save your 10D battery AND you have the red beam for AF AND maybe you get less red eyes.

Marcel D.
The Netherlands
GC-S5 - 990 - G2 - D60 ( BG-ED3 - 24-70 - 28-135 - 70-200F4 - 550EX )
http://www.fotoexpo.tk

Bakman_29 · Apr 27, 2003

Marcel D. said:
What do you mean with 'hassle'? Did the doorman not believe that
you had permission?

an printed email wasn't enough (ofcourse), but managed to get in ;-)

Marcel D. said:
Marcel D. said:

I was confronted with extremely dark lighting conditions.
Is it possible to use the ST-E2 with the built-in flash ? It would

Click to expand...

Probably not. Absolutely not on the D60. You can't pop the flash
when there is something in the hotshoe.

Makes sense...

Marcel D. said:
You should definitely get the 550ex (or 440ex). I'm not sure about
the Sigma, but on my Canon 24-70 I think I can't use the internal
flash because the lens is too big. With the 550EX you get a wider
range AND you save your 10D battery AND you have the red beam for
AF AND maybe you get less red eyes.

The Sigma has the same problem

The maximum WA(??) I can do is about 35mm before "the shadow" shows up, I saw a guy (from ID&T) walking with Canon and an EX, man.. those things are big....but I might get one for these situations (expensive in NL though)....I don't like flash photography that much....I am in doubt...also I am not sure how many of these parties I will continue to shoot...

BaKMaN
--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Matt Abrew · Apr 27, 2003

I really like the first pictures. Keep up the good work.

How did you get permission? Did you approach the promoter?

Thanks
M

Bakman_29 said:
Last night I was allowed to shoot on "Shockers" which is a major
hardstyle/techno party here in Holland, although it was still a
hassle to get in with my 10D and lenses.

I was confronted with extremely dark lighting conditions.
Is it possible to use the ST-E2 with the built-in flash ? It would
be very convenient to focus as I don't want to use a big speedlite,
as 7 hours of carrying all this stuff is already hard enough, not
to mention with all these hurds of people who push you around....
;-)

I didn't use the AF-flash assist as most people are posing and
think after a flash that picture has been taken, I didn't want to
spoil the moment, so I tried manual focus, ofcourse a disaster
without light....obviously the AF-assist was the better option,
better luck next time ;-)

Comments and constructive criticism always appreciated...!

10D - Sigma 24-70/2.8 - ISO 1600

BaKMaN
--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Bakman_29 · Apr 27, 2003

Matt Abrew said:
I really like the first pictures. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, I am working on the good part ;-)

Matt Abrew said:
How did you get permission? Did you approach the promoter?

Thanks
M

I had to shoot for 2 DJ's "in action" so they can use that as promotion material. We had arranged access with the promoter via email, this was not convincing for the security guards (anyone can make up an email) so we had to get the promoter to convince the security guards that it was ok.

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Nill Toulme · Apr 27, 2003

Smaller, simpler, cheaper, but still E-TTL, still has AF-assist beam, still will clear your wide angle lens and reduce red-eye:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh6.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___121598___CA220EX___GREY___CatID=0___SID=F50C693B1D0

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Bakman_29 said:
Bakman_29 said:

What do you mean with 'hassle'? Did the doorman not believe that
you had permission?

Click to expand...

an printed email wasn't enough (ofcourse), but managed to get in ;-)

Bakman_29 said:

Bakman_29 said:

I was confronted with extremely dark lighting conditions.
Is it possible to use the ST-E2 with the built-in flash ? It would

Click to expand...

Probably not. Absolutely not on the D60. You can't pop the flash
when there is something in the hotshoe.

Click to expand...

Makes sense...

Bakman_29 said:

You should definitely get the 550ex (or 440ex). I'm not sure about
the Sigma, but on my Canon 24-70 I think I can't use the internal
flash because the lens is too big. With the 550EX you get a wider
range AND you save your 10D battery AND you have the red beam for
AF AND maybe you get less red eyes.

Click to expand...

The Sigma has the same problem
The maximum WA(??) I can do is about 35mm before "the shadow" shows
up, I saw a guy (from ID&T) walking with Canon and an EX, man..
those things are big....but I might get one for these situations
(expensive in NL though)....I don't like flash photography that
much....I am in doubt...also I am not sure how many of these
parties I will continue to shoot...

BaKMaN
--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Bakman_29 · Apr 27, 2003

Nill,

That is a good recommendation, you see I am not into flash ;-)

Should I get some kind of bouncer or softener with such an apparatus, as it can't swivel its head ?

Thanks,

BaKMaN

Nill Toulme said:
Smaller, simpler, cheaper, but still E-TTL, still has AF-assist
beam, still will clear your wide angle lens and reduce red-eye:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh6.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___121598___CA220EX___GREY___CatID=0___SID=F50C693B1D0

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Nill Toulme · Apr 27, 2003

Well now you're wanting to take the simple and make it more complicated. ;-)

I don't know how much opportunity you'd have to bounce flash in a club. (The last time I was in a club they were called discos.) But if you want something more versatile I would go with a 420ex and put a Stofen Omnibounce on it to soften it slightly. It's a bit larger but not a whole lot, still considerably smaller than the hulking 500ex. I think it's probably the best choice for most people to go with the 10D.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh6.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___206436___CA420EX___GREY___CatID=0___SID=F50C693B1D0

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh6.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___216907___STOBC420EX___REG___CatID=0___SID=F50C693B1D0

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Bakman_29 said:
Nill,

That is a good recommendation, you see I am not into flash ;-)
Should I get some kind of bouncer or softener with such an
apparatus, as it can't swivel its head ?

Nill Toulme · Apr 27, 2003

I like your shots; I think the first one is fabulous.

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Bakman_29 · Apr 27, 2003

Nill Toulme said:
Well now you're wanting to take the simple and make it more
complicated. ;-)

Now you know with what kind of person you're dealing with ;-) (messed up in my brain hahaha)

Nill Toulme said:
I don't know how much opportunity you'd have to bounce flash in a
club. (The last time I was in a club they were called discos.)

This party was not in a club though, it was a massive 30.000 people party with 4 dancehalls which they organize each year.
Clubs tend to be less crowded than what I experienced last night...

Nill Toulme said:
But if you want something more versatile I would go with a 420ex
and put a Stofen Omnibounce on it to soften it slightly. It's a
bit larger but not a whole lot, still considerably smaller than the
hulking 500ex. I think it's probably the best choice for most
people to go with the 10D.

That 420 looks like a good option as there is more flexibility to it and not so overwhemingly huge as the 550. for the 220 I was wrong, I meant something like a softbox (?) to make the flash not appear so harsh ?

Thanks,

--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Bakman_29 · Apr 27, 2003

Nill Toulme said:
I like your shots; I think the first one is fabulous.

Thanks, I like it a lot too, and actually there was no post-processing done to it other then some slight USM (laser beams don't take USM very easily)

--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Nill Toulme · Apr 27, 2003

The Stofen Omnibounce I mentioned will do that to some degree. Softboxes and bounce attachments like the Promax System actually work better for this purpose, but they also add a lot of size and complexity, something I thought you were trying to avoid.

Here's a shot taken straight on with an Omnibounce-equipped 420ex mounted on a D60:

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Bakman_29 said:
That 420 looks like a good option as there is more flexibility to
it and not so overwhemingly huge as the 550. for the 220 I was
wrong, I meant something like a softbox (?) to make the flash not
appear so harsh ?

Bakman_29 · Apr 27, 2003

I like it a lot, not flash like at all and very natural...!

I will give my mind some time to think about these options....
Thanks,

BaKMaN.

Nill Toulme said:
Here's a shot taken straight on with an Omnibounce-equipped 420ex
mounted on a D60:

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

Bakman_29 said:

That 420 looks like a good option as there is more flexibility to
it and not so overwhemingly huge as the 550. for the 220 I was
wrong, I meant something like a softbox (?) to make the flash not
appear so harsh ?

Click to expand...

--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

David Martin · Apr 27, 2003

Bakman_29 said:
Last night I was allowed to shoot on "Shockers" which is a major
hardstyle/techno party here in Holland, although it was still a
hassle to get in with my 10D and lenses.

I was confronted with extremely dark lighting conditions.
Is it possible to use the ST-E2 with the built-in flash ? It would
be very convenient to focus as I don't want to use a big speedlite,
as 7 hours of carrying all this stuff is already hard enough, not
to mention with all these hurds of people who push you around....
;-)

I didn't use the AF-flash assist as most people are posing and
think after a flash that picture has been taken, I didn't want to
spoil the moment, so I tried manual focus, ofcourse a disaster
without light....obviously the AF-assist was the better option,
better luck next time ;-)

Comments and constructive criticism always appreciated...!

10D - Sigma 24-70/2.8 - ISO 1600

BaKMaN
--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Heckuvva shots!
What NR do you use? Neat Image?

Do you mean that the STE2 will function as a focus assist? Be great if it does, as I am thinking of getting one, and it would be nice if it meant that I can just leave the 550 I am intending getting at home.

Sounds like it won't without using the pop-up flash, but I'm sure I remember reading somewhere about something that you could use as a focus-assist without a full flash unit.
--
Regards,
DaveMart

Please see profile for equipment

allen Bock91889 · Apr 27, 2003

Hi Bakman

Nice work, are all this shots at ISO 1600? They all look very clean. Did you shot any at ISO 3200?

Thank Allen

Toshi · Apr 27, 2003

The ST-E2 will function as a focus assist. This is outlined on the Luminous Landscape and in numerous forum threads here: http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/st-e2.shtml . What the poster (nice pics, btw) was asking was whether this focus assist capability could be used while still using the popup flash . The answer to this is no.

David Martin said:
Do you mean that the STE2 will function as a focus assist? Be great
if it does, as I am thinking of getting one, and it would be nice
if it meant that I can just leave the 550 I am intending getting at
home.
Sounds like it won't without using the pop-up flash, but I'm sure I
remember reading somewhere about something that you could use as a
focus-assist without a full flash unit.

David Martin · Apr 27, 2003

Toshi said:
David Martin said:

Do you mean that the STE2 will function as a focus assist? Be great
if it does, as I am thinking of getting one, and it would be nice
if it meant that I can just leave the 550 I am intending getting at
home.
Sounds like it won't without using the pop-up flash, but I'm sure I
remember reading somewhere about something that you could use as a
focus-assist without a full flash unit.

Click to expand...

Thanks Toshi!
So much to learn, such a small brain to fit it all in!

I find I don't have much luck using search on this very active forum, so your patience is appreciated until I can build up my list of 'favourites', and get a feel for the Canon range.
--
Regards,
DaveMart

Please see profile for equipment

Bakman_29 · Apr 28, 2003

Member said:
Heckuvva shots!
What NR do you use? Neat Image

Thanks !

The last 2 shots where done at ISO 1600 and the others are ISO 800.

Only thing done to them is resizing and some slight USM. The originals will show noise ofcourse, but still very acceptable though.

Sorry about that.

BaKMaN
--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

Bakman_29 · Apr 28, 2003

Allen,

Thanks, I haven't touched the ISO3200 even yet, as for the rest
I was wrong, I made a switch to 1600 somewhere:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4974769

Allen Bock said:
Hi Bakman

Nice work, are all this shots at ISO 1600? They all look very
clean. Did you shot any at ISO 3200?

Thank Allen

--

http://www.digitallyactive.com

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