Alan H. Donnelly
New member
I am new to the E20. When shooting in a snow covered situation, is white balance adequate or is a pluss value on exposure still needed?
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White balance vs exposure
- Thread starter Alan H. Donnelly
- Start date
Not really sure what you are getting at here.
You can either manually white balance or use auto. Using the one touch white balance with a Kodak gray card or just a plain white sheet of paper you should get reasonable results. Many times, in outdoor pics like you describe, I find auto does a good enough job and any slight tweakings to perfection can be made in post.
As far as exposure goes, I try to under-expose such scenes generally as snow is so easily blown out, and once it is it's nearly impossible to adjust back even in Curves. Use a slightly higher shutter speed and take a few sample pics or just monitor on the LCD to see where you're at until you get it right.
I don't really know what the connection between WB and exposure is that you're trying to get at here though...
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
You can either manually white balance or use auto. Using the one touch white balance with a Kodak gray card or just a plain white sheet of paper you should get reasonable results. Many times, in outdoor pics like you describe, I find auto does a good enough job and any slight tweakings to perfection can be made in post.
As far as exposure goes, I try to under-expose such scenes generally as snow is so easily blown out, and once it is it's nearly impossible to adjust back even in Curves. Use a slightly higher shutter speed and take a few sample pics or just monitor on the LCD to see where you're at until you get it right.
I don't really know what the connection between WB and exposure is that you're trying to get at here though...
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Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
As a follow-up, here's an example of a tricky WB scenario I took last winter. I got the exposure right but the WB is tilted more towards the blue side. It's adjustable in color balance though without affecting the overall exposure.
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
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Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
Alan H. Donnelly
New member
What I am trying to do is produce white snow (not blue or grey). With my old approach with 35 mm, The only way to do this was to go to a pluss 2 on the exposure. With the E20, I should be able to focus on some white snow and set the wb. Will this work without advancing the exposure?
Sorry for all the posts. I promise I'll be done after this one 
Just wanted to show a little Photoshop technique for correcting a tricky WB scene in post that otherwise was'nt white balanced correctly.
Now, this example is in NO way a perfect or even a good one. I did this correction real quick just in the last 5 minutes since I last posted, and am just using it as an example. It would require more time and fine tuning to get truly right.
Anyway, in this first scene, the pic I posted in the last post, the WB is really off......the snow is way too blue. But, I want to keep the exposure, and I want the sky to remain blue. So here's what I did.
I opened the original in PS. Then, I went to Image/Duplicate. I created a duplicate file of the original, then did a select all on it. Then I color balanced to get the snow much whiter (by tweaking the red and blue channels). Then I copied the image to the clipboard, and pasted it over the original. Now, I have two layers......one with the original and one with the original with the pasted color corrected image over it. Now, with the layer I pasted over, I chose the history brush, set a soft brush for it and even though I did'nt bother in this example I also would have set the opacity to about 20% or so so that overlapping and fine tuning can be more precisely accomplished. Then, even again though I did'nt bother here, you can select out the mountains (snow) and do a mask on it (here I just magnified the image and did the best I could real quick to not hit the snow with the tool). I history brushed the sky, and got it back to it's original blue again. Then flatten the image and woila.....the snow looks like snow instead of a big lump of solidified aftershave again.
Before;
After;
I just thought I'd include this as a way to correct WB on a shot that's already been incorrectly balanced in the cam. As you can see, the original exposure on the snow has'nt been too messed with, just lightened up a bit.
Hope this helps.
Just wanted to show a little Photoshop technique for correcting a tricky WB scene in post that otherwise was'nt white balanced correctly.
Now, this example is in NO way a perfect or even a good one. I did this correction real quick just in the last 5 minutes since I last posted, and am just using it as an example. It would require more time and fine tuning to get truly right.
Anyway, in this first scene, the pic I posted in the last post, the WB is really off......the snow is way too blue. But, I want to keep the exposure, and I want the sky to remain blue. So here's what I did.
I opened the original in PS. Then, I went to Image/Duplicate. I created a duplicate file of the original, then did a select all on it. Then I color balanced to get the snow much whiter (by tweaking the red and blue channels). Then I copied the image to the clipboard, and pasted it over the original. Now, I have two layers......one with the original and one with the original with the pasted color corrected image over it. Now, with the layer I pasted over, I chose the history brush, set a soft brush for it and even though I did'nt bother in this example I also would have set the opacity to about 20% or so so that overlapping and fine tuning can be more precisely accomplished. Then, even again though I did'nt bother here, you can select out the mountains (snow) and do a mask on it (here I just magnified the image and did the best I could real quick to not hit the snow with the tool). I history brushed the sky, and got it back to it's original blue again. Then flatten the image and woila.....the snow looks like snow instead of a big lump of solidified aftershave again.
Before;
After;
I just thought I'd include this as a way to correct WB on a shot that's already been incorrectly balanced in the cam. As you can see, the original exposure on the snow has'nt been too messed with, just lightened up a bit.
Hope this helps.
Doehns
Senior Member
No, the white balance is only against color casts- does not alter the exposure.
If you use the spot meter and measure pure snow, the camera assumes that the snow is 18% grey, and tries to make it grey.
(underexposed). So if there is something in the picture, that is 18%grey( some rocks, or a person)- spot on it and use AE-lock.
Or put a greycard somewhere in the snow, measure it, and set the exposure manualy.
Overexposure to +1.7 or so , like you mentioned , would work as well, but not as precise- you have to be sure, that you don't lose shadows of important parts.
Ah, I see what you mean now.
That should help. But keep in mind that snow is not a "true" white.....many times, without an appropriate filter, it exhibits large amounts of blue, yellow (no, not THAT yellow!!) or what have you from the sun reflecting and/or absorbing into it. Therefor, you may get a white on the snow, but your sky or other background will be completely off instead.
It's a tricky one. One thing you can do that'll help is use a polarizer or at least a UV filter. Then, try the method you described. Honestly, I've never tried it that way before, so perhaps someone more knowledgeable about such white balancing will respond. I'm sorry I can't be of much further help.
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
That should help. But keep in mind that snow is not a "true" white.....many times, without an appropriate filter, it exhibits large amounts of blue, yellow (no, not THAT yellow!!) or what have you from the sun reflecting and/or absorbing into it. Therefor, you may get a white on the snow, but your sky or other background will be completely off instead.
It's a tricky one. One thing you can do that'll help is use a polarizer or at least a UV filter. Then, try the method you described. Honestly, I've never tried it that way before, so perhaps someone more knowledgeable about such white balancing will respond. I'm sorry I can't be of much further help.
--
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
So David, from your side of the world do you get any out door pictures between October and June with no snow? I'm sure you have to be the snow expert around here. Nice mountain scene btw. Personally I liked it blue better - I think you over did the correction.
A quick shot - spot exposure off the mountain, polarizer and graduated ND filter to tone down the sky.
A quick shot - spot exposure off the mountain, polarizer and graduated ND filter to tone down the sky.
I'm as bad as David 
This might be a better example - shot straight into the noon sun, only a UV filter, spot exposure off distant mountain. You can see details in snow at 8 x 11.
So the moral is - if there is something that has the same value as middle gray, set your exposure to that.
This might be a better example - shot straight into the noon sun, only a UV filter, spot exposure off distant mountain. You can see details in snow at 8 x 11.
So the moral is - if there is something that has the same value as middle gray, set your exposure to that.
Hi Trent.
Nice pics. You got the snow dead on there.
Yes, we have all of about 3 months of summer.....the other 9 I don't know, cuz I can't see over the tops of the snow banks.
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
Nice pics. You got the snow dead on there.
Yes, we have all of about 3 months of summer.....the other 9 I don't know, cuz I can't see over the tops of the snow banks.
--I'm as bad as David
This might be a better example - shot straight into the noon sun,
only a UV filter, spot exposure off distant mountain. You can see
details in snow at 8 x 11.
So the moral is - if there is something that has the same value as
middle gray, set your exposure to that.
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
Geeezzzzz....I'll never learn to speak what's all on my mind before I post!!
By the way, I'm off for an extended excursion across Southern Alaska, probably be back tomorrow. Going to get some shots of the glaciers as well as the mountains before the snow mostly disappears from tree line. I'll try all the various techniques described here, especially on the glaciers, and see how it goes. I'll post some here if anybody's interested.
Thanks for a great thread so far. I've learned something from it as well.
And thanks for the kind words Trent!
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
By the way, I'm off for an extended excursion across Southern Alaska, probably be back tomorrow. Going to get some shots of the glaciers as well as the mountains before the snow mostly disappears from tree line. I'll try all the various techniques described here, especially on the glaciers, and see how it goes. I'll post some here if anybody's interested.
Thanks for a great thread so far. I've learned something from it as well.
And thanks for the kind words Trent!
----I'm as bad as David
This might be a better example - shot straight into the noon sun,
only a UV filter, spot exposure off distant mountain. You can see
details in snow at 8 x 11.
So the moral is - if there is something that has the same value as
middle gray, set your exposure to that.
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25,
Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
Alan H. Donnelly
New member
Gentleman, Thanks for the suggestions. As soon as ski season resumes I intend to try them all..............Alan D.----I'm as bad as David
This might be a better example - shot straight into the noon sun,
only a UV filter, spot exposure off distant mountain. You can see
details in snow at 8 x 11.
So the moral is - if there is something that has the same value as
middle gray, set your exposure to that.
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25,
Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25,
Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter
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