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10D vs S2 comparision...without pictures inserted

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John Lewis3

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10D vs S2, old story, new thread to provoke a response.

Given '1ds' 12mp picture is way better than S2 12mp picture, and is not expected to equate, I ask the following.

Please compare the 10d 6mp picture upsized by 40% and set at 300 ppi (or from 100% to 140%) to the S2 12mp at 300 ppi picture and provide an opinion.

Given that the outdoors '10d' 6mp picture at URL """



"""
(see..... http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp )

and the outdoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page17.asp ),

......and the '10d' indoors picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page21.asp )

and the indoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page16.asp ),

If the 6mp is upsized by 40%, I ask the following...........allowing for slight differences in speed and weather and pollution etc between the shots......are they 'even stevens' ?

Does the S2 just tweak in, does the 10d gain significantly from its clarity to draw evenly, or does the S2 just provide that little bit more of significant detail ?

( assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy prints magazine quality are needed )

Will the upsized picture hold up during the printing process ( assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy print magazine quality are needed ) ?
Any opinions ?

Certainly the S2 picture could be upsized and so may indeed hold the 'upsize and cropping' advantage, but side by side what is the consensus ? Not that there are any winners and losers at this level.

I'm running this same question in Canon SLR and Fuji SLR to see the differences in opinion.
 
"1Ds 12mp picture is way better than S2 picture..."

Way better how? Color?, resolution?, noise? All? No doubt the 1Ds is a fine instrument and tool BUT I'm personally not convinced it is "way better" than the S2, particularly as far as color depth/rendition goes. Resolution wise, the 1Ds probably has a slight edge(20% or so) but not great. Noise wise, debateable. At high ASA's, I think the S2 wins and at low ASA's the Canon tends to soften the image way too much for my tastes. Great Body and build though and I would not object if somesone gave me one(as long as they also gave me a Canon EOS body to Nikon lens adapter so I could mount good Nikkor Glass on it! ha ha).

10D, sorry, different league all together. no comparison in my opinion as far as image quality is concerned..but all these cameras are capable of great images in the right hands and the difference in the resulting images is far more influeced by the Eye behind the camera than their minute differences. Give the same PHotographer all three cameras, and I think the 10D image would be lacking compared to the 1Ds and S2.

Tariq
Tariq.com
John Lewis3 said:
10D vs S2, old story, new thread to provoke a response.

Given '1ds' 12mp picture is way better than S2 12mp picture, and is
not expected to equate, I ask the following.
Please compare the 10d 6mp picture upsized by 40% and set at 300
ppi (or from 100% to 140%) to the S2 12mp at 300 ppi picture and
provide an opinion.

Given that the outdoors '10d' 6mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see..... http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp )

and the outdoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page17.asp ),

......and the '10d' indoors picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page21.asp )

and the indoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page16.asp ),

If the 6mp is upsized by 40%, I ask the
following...........allowing for slight differences in speed and
weather and pollution etc between the shots......are they 'even
stevens' ?

Does the S2 just tweak in, does the 10d gain significantly from its
clarity to draw evenly, or does the S2 just provide that little bit
more of significant detail ?
( assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy prints magazine
quality are needed )

Will the upsized picture hold up during the printing process (
assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy print magazine
quality are needed ) ?
Any opinions ?

Certainly the S2 picture could be upsized and so may indeed hold
the 'upsize and cropping' advantage, but side by side what is the
consensus ? Not that there are any winners and losers at this
level.

I'm running this same question in Canon SLR and Fuji SLR to see the
differences in opinion.
Click to expand...
 
John Lewis3 said:
10D vs S2, old story, new thread to provoke a response.

Given '1ds' 12mp picture is way better than S2 12mp picture, and is
not expected to equate, I ask the following.
Please compare the 10d 6mp picture upsized by 40% and set at 300
ppi (or from 100% to 140%) to the S2 12mp at 300 ppi picture and
provide an opinion.

Given that the outdoors '10d' 6mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see..... http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp )

and the outdoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page17.asp ),

......and the '10d' indoors picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page21.asp )

and the indoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page16.asp ),

If the 6mp is upsized by 40%, I ask the
following...........allowing for slight differences in speed and
weather and pollution etc between the shots......are they 'even
stevens' ?

Does the S2 just tweak in, does the 10d gain significantly from its
clarity to draw evenly, or does the S2 just provide that little bit
more of significant detail ?
( assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy prints magazine
quality are needed )

Will the upsized picture hold up during the printing process (
assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy print magazine
quality are needed ) ?
Any opinions ?

Certainly the S2 picture could be upsized and so may indeed hold
the 'upsize and cropping' advantage, but side by side what is the
consensus ? Not that there are any winners and losers at this
level.

I'm running this same question in Canon SLR and Fuji SLR to see the
differences in opinion.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not trying to destroy the S2. In fact I'm planning on getting one. I think it has an advantage that others in the price range are not offerring.

I looked at the 1ds 12 mp picture and the S2 12mp picture side by side in photoshop - took them from the reviews on this site.

I zoomed in on a label and the difference was very significant - sharpness, clarity, readability, tone, smoothness etc. etc.

That was enough for me, and I will not be persuaded otherwise. S2 makers have never claimed a comparison to a full 12mp picture is valid.

Others have suggested that the S2 has a rating of 8-9 mp.

It does not seem to be an unsubstantiated idea. This 8-9 mp achievement is its strong point.

The main point to my questions are to determine if upsizing works when printing. Also if sharpening upsized pics is satisfactory to others out there.

It is a technique applicable to the S2 as much as the 10D or whatever comes along and is flavour of the month.

Yeah I'm asking about the 10D, who wouldn't. But like I said, there are no losers at this level and I really want to hear some open minded opinions about a comparison.
Tariq said:
Way better how? Color?, resolution?, noise? All? No doubt the 1Ds
is a fine instrument and tool BUT I'm personally not convinced it
is "way better" than the S2, particularly as far as color
depth/rendition goes. Resolution wise, the 1Ds probably has a
slight edge(20% or so) but not great. Noise wise, debateable. At
high ASA's, I think the S2 wins and at low ASA's the Canon tends to
soften the image way too much for my tastes. Great Body and build
though and I would not object if somesone gave me one(as long as
they also gave me a Canon EOS body to Nikon lens adapter so I could
mount good Nikkor Glass on it! ha ha).

10D, sorry, different league all together. no comparison in my
opinion as far as image quality is concerned..but all these cameras
are capable of great images in the right hands and the difference
in the resulting images is far more influeced by the Eye behind the
camera than their minute differences. Give the same PHotographer
all three cameras, and I think the 10D image would be lacking
compared to the 1Ds and S2.

Tariq
Tariq.com
John Lewis3 said:
10D vs S2, old story, new thread to provoke a response.

Given '1ds' 12mp picture is way better than S2 12mp picture, and is
not expected to equate, I ask the following.
Please compare the 10d 6mp picture upsized by 40% and set at 300
ppi (or from 100% to 140%) to the S2 12mp at 300 ppi picture and
provide an opinion.

Given that the outdoors '10d' 6mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see..... http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp )

and the outdoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page17.asp ),

......and the '10d' indoors picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page21.asp )

and the indoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page16.asp ),

If the 6mp is upsized by 40%, I ask the
following...........allowing for slight differences in speed and
weather and pollution etc between the shots......are they 'even
stevens' ?

Does the S2 just tweak in, does the 10d gain significantly from its
clarity to draw evenly, or does the S2 just provide that little bit
more of significant detail ?
( assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy prints magazine
quality are needed )

Will the upsized picture hold up during the printing process (
assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy print magazine
quality are needed ) ?
Any opinions ?

Certainly the S2 picture could be upsized and so may indeed hold
the 'upsize and cropping' advantage, but side by side what is the
consensus ? Not that there are any winners and losers at this
level.

I'm running this same question in Canon SLR and Fuji SLR to see the
differences in opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Suggest you try to highlight the link and copy and paste into the browser URL bar and remove the """"

The """" were necessary to stop 12mp pictures being downloaded as you read the posting.

(p.s. but don't mention the 10d war)
Teski said:
John Lewis3 said:
10D vs S2, old story, new thread to provoke a response.

Given '1ds' 12mp picture is way better than S2 12mp picture, and is
not expected to equate, I ask the following.
Please compare the 10d 6mp picture upsized by 40% and set at 300
ppi (or from 100% to 140%) to the S2 12mp at 300 ppi picture and
provide an opinion.

Given that the outdoors '10d' 6mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see..... http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp )

and the outdoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page17.asp ),

......and the '10d' indoors picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page21.asp )

and the indoors 'S2' 12mp picture at URL

"""



"""
(see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page16.asp ),

If the 6mp is upsized by 40%, I ask the
following...........allowing for slight differences in speed and
weather and pollution etc between the shots......are they 'even
stevens' ?

Does the S2 just tweak in, does the 10d gain significantly from its
clarity to draw evenly, or does the S2 just provide that little bit
more of significant detail ?
( assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy prints magazine
quality are needed )

Will the upsized picture hold up during the printing process (
assuming that 300 ppi and a4 size colour glossy print magazine
quality are needed ) ?
Any opinions ?

Certainly the S2 picture could be upsized and so may indeed hold
the 'upsize and cropping' advantage, but side by side what is the
consensus ? Not that there are any winners and losers at this
level.

I'm running this same question in Canon SLR and Fuji SLR to see the
differences in opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I do believe the S2 gives an appoximate resolution in the 8-9MP range as you mention and is thus within 20% of the 1ds as far as Resolution goes. Before buying the S2, I was a fairly big supporter of Canon and I have owned and shot with both Canon and Nikon over the past 20 years. My first Digital camera was the Canon G1 which I love. Skipped the Canon D30 and was seriously considering the D60 when it came out. Fortunately for me, they were pretty hard to come by when they hit the market or I'm sure I would already own one. When the S2 and then later the 1ds came out, I decided that it was time to buy a DSLR and give the Hasselblad a rest for most commercial work. I spent a ton of time comparing all the images I could get my hands on from the various reviews and product pages from the D60, D100, S2 and the 1Ds. I was actually a little biased towards the Canon Raw format and the Canons but after comparing images, the S2, in my opinion, was head and shoulders above the D60 and D100 and so close to the 1Ds that the price difference really did not make sense to me. Now, of couse, the 1Ds is a much is built on a much nicer body but purly image output wise. The images I have seen from the D10 look very much like D60 output and reviews state as much. If this is the case, then I know for a fact that a D10(D60 comparable) image can't match the S2. That's just my opin though based on looking at lots and lots of D60 vs S2 images. As far as the 1Ds image quality goes, here is a post I made right after the 1Ds hit the market. I still stand by my conclusions after seeing many many more images from the 1ds. I think it is close to the S2, and maybee lacking in color depth, but not a whole lot better.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3822822

As far as printing, upsize in PS using 110% increments to your desired size is reached. Then view the image at 50% on screen to get a good idea of how it will appear printed. That's my suggestion.

Tariq
Tariq.com
John Lewis3 said:
I'm not trying to destroy the S2. In fact I'm planning on getting
one. I think it has an advantage that others in the price range are
not offerring.

I looked at the 1ds 12 mp picture and the S2 12mp picture side by
side in photoshop - took them from the reviews on this site.
I zoomed in on a label and the difference was very significant -
sharpness, clarity, readability, tone, smoothness etc. etc.

That was enough for me, and I will not be persuaded otherwise. S2
makers have never claimed a comparison to a full 12mp picture is
valid.

Others have suggested that the S2 has a rating of 8-9 mp.
It does not seem to be an unsubstantiated idea. This 8-9 mp
achievement is its strong point.

The main point to my questions are to determine if upsizing works
when printing. Also if sharpening upsized pics is satisfactory to
others out there.
It is a technique applicable to the S2 as much as the 10D or
whatever comes along and is flavour of the month.

Yeah I'm asking about the 10D, who wouldn't. But like I said,
there are no losers at this level and I really want to hear some
open minded opinions about a comparison.
Click to expand...
 
the 12MP output, is probably around a 10% difference,
and 1.6x vx 1.5x plus fujis ccd, might make 15% between a 10D and S2,
in studio use with primes, and raw....
all other things considered,... for 8x10 output, it would be marginal at best.
handling will be the most substantial difference, and flash.
and to compare a full frame 1Ds with a S2 , is not just.
for most things in this world, right now, ... you get , what you pay for,....
weather you use it or need it, is another story.
cheers, Robert Schultz
--
http://www.RobsPhoto.com
 
That is an idea, it has merit, each 10% increase will fill in the bicubic/bilinial/neighbour pixels based upon some algorithm.

I'm not sure if I was cropping or how exactly I went about resizing a while back, (and definitely was not using a percentage setting), but I did notice then that one single resize yielded better results.
I suppose I did not have a constant crop ratio.

So take that on board I'll do it that way.

Any ideas about how much of an increase is too much ?

Yeah it doesn't make much sense to take pictures 3-4mp when 6mp - 11mp shots are possible.

But could a 3-4 mp picture be upsized to 11mp ?

I'm asking more from offset magazine sense. A billboard is huge and as long as you see an edge and outline the message gets across and campaign a success.

I'm talking people/glamour , studio, good lighting , a4 size, there is no need to see writing and long distance detail, just to preserve the skin tones and consistency and clothing detail.

Perhaps as it is people based and the most detail needed is clothing and teeth and eyes, it may work.

Again, I'm more interested in knowing how it tranlates to 300ppi a4 size.

Perhaps the clothes and lines look uneven and 6mp is necessary.

Sure you would only use min 6mp now, but could the 3-4mp SLR studio pic (good lighting) pull it off, could it be upsized to 28MB ??
Tariq said:
As far as printing, upsize in PS using 110% increments to your
desired size is reached. Then view the image at 50% on screen to
get a good idea of how it will appear printed. That's my
suggestion.

Tariq
Tariq.com
John Lewis3 said:
I'm not trying to destroy the S2. In fact I'm planning on getting
one. I think it has an advantage that others in the price range are
not offerring.

I looked at the 1ds 12 mp picture and the S2 12mp picture side by
side in photoshop - took them from the reviews on this site.
I zoomed in on a label and the difference was very significant -
sharpness, clarity, readability, tone, smoothness etc. etc.

That was enough for me, and I will not be persuaded otherwise. S2
makers have never claimed a comparison to a full 12mp picture is
valid.

Others have suggested that the S2 has a rating of 8-9 mp.
It does not seem to be an unsubstantiated idea. This 8-9 mp
achievement is its strong point.

The main point to my questions are to determine if upsizing works
when printing. Also if sharpening upsized pics is satisfactory to
others out there.
It is a technique applicable to the S2 as much as the 10D or
whatever comes along and is flavour of the month.

Yeah I'm asking about the 10D, who wouldn't. But like I said,
there are no losers at this level and I really want to hear some
open minded opinions about a comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
The Canon 1D 4MP camera can pull off what you want very easily as far as DSLR's in the under 6MP range. Not sure about the other DSLR's which have less than 6MP native output. It's more about the quality of those particular pixels than the absolute number. Thats why cheap, inexpensive non-DSLR's in the 3-5MP range are no where near the quality of a 3-6MP DSLR and could not pull off what you want.

How much interpolation is too much is purely subjective to a large degree - what looks good to you- and it depends on the particular image. Do a search on this or other forums for "billboard" and perhaps you can get an idea as to what others are doing. With smaller sizes such as A4, there are really no issues with a well taken and processed image using todays DSLR's - just about any of them are up to the task and which you use is a matter of personal pref.

My testing using 10% increments vs. doing just one step interpolation yielded vastly superior images - and images which are just as good as using any of the stand alone programs intended for interpolation. It's easiest to set up an action in PS for this if you use the same sizes often.

Happy shooting,

Tariq
Tariq.com
John Lewis3 said:
I'm not sure if I was cropping or how exactly I went about resizing
a while back, (and definitely was not using a percentage setting),
but I did notice then that one single resize yielded better results.
I suppose I did not have a constant crop ratio.

So take that on board I'll do it that way.

Any ideas about how much of an increase is too much ?

Yeah it doesn't make much sense to take pictures 3-4mp when 6mp -
11mp shots are possible.

But could a 3-4 mp picture be upsized to 11mp ?

I'm asking more from offset magazine sense. A billboard is huge and
as long as you see an edge and outline the message gets across and
campaign a success.

I'm talking people/glamour , studio, good lighting , a4 size, there
is no need to see writing and long distance detail, just to
preserve the skin tones and consistency and clothing detail.

Perhaps as it is people based and the most detail needed is
clothing and teeth and eyes, it may work.

Again, I'm more interested in knowing how it tranlates to 300ppi a4
size.

Perhaps the clothes and lines look uneven and 6mp is necessary.
Sure you would only use min 6mp now, but could the 3-4mp SLR studio
pic (good lighting) pull it off, could it be upsized to 28MB ??
Tariq said:
I do believe the S2 gives an appoximate resolution in the 8-9MP
range as you mention and is thus within 20% of the 1ds as far as
Resolution goes. Before buying the S2, I was a fairly big
supporter of Canon and I have owned and shot with both Canon and
Nikon over the past 20 years. My first Digital camera was the
Canon G1 which I love. Skipped the Canon D30 and was seriously
considering the D60 when it came out. Fortunately for me, they
were pretty hard to come by when they hit the market or I'm sure I
would already own one. When the S2 and then later the 1ds came
out, I decided that it was time to buy a DSLR and give the
Hasselblad a rest for most commercial work. I spent a ton of time
comparing all the images I could get my hands on from the various
reviews and product pages from the D60, D100, S2 and the 1Ds. I
was actually a little biased towards the Canon Raw format and the
Canons but after comparing images, the S2, in my opinion, was head
and shoulders above the D60 and D100 and so close to the 1Ds that
the price difference really did not make sense to me. Now, of
couse, the 1Ds is a much is built on a much nicer body but purly
image output wise. The images I have seen from the D10 look very
much like D60 output and reviews state as much. If this is the
case, then I know for a fact that a D10(D60 comparable) image can't
match the S2. That's just my opin though based on looking at lots
and lots of D60 vs S2 images. As far as the 1Ds image quality
goes, here is a post I made right after the 1Ds hit the market. I
still stand by my conclusions after seeing many many more images
from the 1ds. I think it is close to the S2, and maybee lacking in
color depth, but not a whole lot better.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3822822

As far as printing, upsize in PS using 110% increments to your
desired size is reached. Then view the image at 50% on screen to
get a good idea of how it will appear printed. That's my
suggestion.

Tariq
Tariq.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
The 10D IS a great camera and I doubt you would find many to disagree with the conclusion on Luminous Landscape: "Considering the price ? it's a steal at $1,500 or less ? the 10D is undoubtedly the best digital SLR on the market today."

Key phrase here is "Considering the price..." Also note that the Sensor is the same sensor as in the D60, tweaked a little. Most of his review addresses either High ASA image output OR the very nice 10D body and its features. There are no side by side image comparisons with a 1Ds, a S2 or even the D60 and he goes on to note the most thorough review is here on Dpreview. What does PHil say as far as image comparisons with the D60?

"There really is very little difference between the output of these two cameras, the EOS-10D may have very slightly smoother diagonals(less visible 45 degree jaggies) and just very slightly better resolution(although hardly detectable). Dynamic range may be slightly higher from the EOS-10D, it did managed to maintain some 'white detail' better than the EOS-D60. Overall however there is very little to choose between these two cameras in this comparison."

Taken from this page of PHils review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp

So, if you like the image quality of a D60, you will love the 10D...and most of us here believe the S2 produces better images than the D60. Follow the logic.

Tariq
Tariq.com
George Chen said:
What do you think of this glowing review of the 10-D?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/10d.shtml
Click to expand...
 
"Considering the price ? it's a steal at $1,500 or less ? the 10D is undoubtedly the best digital SLR on the market today."

This is how the quote should have appeared from Luminous Landscape. Not sure why it pasted wrong with ?'s

Tariq
Tariq said:
Key phrase here is "Considering the price..." Also note that the
Sensor is the same sensor as in the D60, tweaked a little. Most of
his review addresses either High ASA image output OR the very nice
10D body and its features. There are no side by side image
comparisons with a 1Ds, a S2 or even the D60 and he goes on to note
the most thorough review is here on Dpreview. What does PHil say
as far as image comparisons with the D60?

"There really is very little difference between the output of these
two cameras, the EOS-10D may have very slightly smoother
diagonals(less visible 45 degree jaggies) and just very slightly
better resolution(although hardly detectable). Dynamic range may be
slightly higher from the EOS-10D, it did managed to maintain some
'white detail' better than the EOS-D60. Overall however there is
very little to choose between these two cameras in
this comparison."

Taken from this page of PHils review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp

So, if you like the image quality of a D60, you will love the
10D...and most of us here believe the S2 produces better images
than the D60. Follow the logic.

Tariq
Tariq.com
George Chen said:
What do you think of this glowing review of the 10-D?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/10d.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Guess some symbols are not recognized, but Hyphens? ?=Hyphens in the above posts.

Tariq
Tariq said:
This is how the quote should have appeared from Luminous Landscape.
Not sure why it pasted wrong with ?'s

Tariq
Tariq said:
Key phrase here is "Considering the price..." Also note that the
Sensor is the same sensor as in the D60, tweaked a little. Most of
his review addresses either High ASA image output OR the very nice
10D body and its features. There are no side by side image
comparisons with a 1Ds, a S2 or even the D60 and he goes on to note
the most thorough review is here on Dpreview. What does PHil say
as far as image comparisons with the D60?

"There really is very little difference between the output of these
two cameras, the EOS-10D may have very slightly smoother
diagonals(less visible 45 degree jaggies) and just very slightly
better resolution(although hardly detectable). Dynamic range may be
slightly higher from the EOS-10D, it did managed to maintain some
'white detail' better than the EOS-D60. Overall however there is
very little to choose between these two cameras in
this comparison."

Taken from this page of PHils review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp

So, if you like the image quality of a D60, you will love the
10D...and most of us here believe the S2 produces better images
than the D60. Follow the logic.

Tariq
Tariq.com
George Chen said:
What do you think of this glowing review of the 10-D?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/10d.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Now, here's an interesting comparison between the 1ds and 14n:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/14n-initial.shtml

I'll agree that the pictures from the 1ds look better overall, but the 14n appears to have better dynamic range. I wonder how the S2 would compare...
Tariq said:
Key phrase here is "Considering the price..." Also note that the
Sensor is the same sensor as in the D60, tweaked a little. Most of
his review addresses either High ASA image output OR the very nice
10D body and its features. There are no side by side image
comparisons with a 1Ds, a S2 or even the D60 and he goes on to note
the most thorough review is here on Dpreview. What does PHil say
as far as image comparisons with the D60?

"There really is very little difference between the output of these
two cameras, the EOS-10D may have very slightly smoother
diagonals(less visible 45 degree jaggies) and just very slightly
better resolution(although hardly detectable). Dynamic range may be
slightly higher from the EOS-10D, it did managed to maintain some
'white detail' better than the EOS-D60. Overall however there is
very little to choose between these two cameras in
this comparison."

Taken from this page of PHils review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp

So, if you like the image quality of a D60, you will love the
10D...and most of us here believe the S2 produces better images
than the D60. Follow the logic.

Tariq
Tariq.com
George Chen said:
What do you think of this glowing review of the 10-D?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/10d.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Now that you mention it it seems obvious.

If a 4mp SLR picture can be upsized to billboard size it can be done so for anywhere in between.

ie. If you zoom in and check out the really fine detail, such as tiles on a roof and you are happy with what you see, it follows it will upsize well as a WYSIWYG.

I suppose a 6 or 12 mp picture will provide more detail but there is no reason the 4mp cannot be sharpened to look good and given lots of colour.

Fashion and people shots seem to lend themselves better to 4mp, as less detail is critical.

Wish i knew this before. An SLR "less than an S2" would have been satisfactory when i needed it.

And I had to talk to someone who believes a Hassleblad is the only camera to consider. Hit me with a steam roller it must have been a salesman.

Thanks for clearing that up, it really was a concern that upsizing would not translate into the printed form well.

It follows that if you take an S2 12mp picture it is WYSIWYG and if you crop and upsize to get the file size to fit - it is all good.

e.g. there ought to be no problem cropping down to 2/3 or 1/2 and cranking that up to appropriate file size and sharpening.

Not sure on the mathematics but it seems that the curve is log in nature.

i.e. The 12mp pic lends itself to being crop ( from pic to pic it will vary but for sake of example.....) by up to 1/2, but the 6mp only by less than a 1/4, if you know what i mean. With cropping more pixels count, perhaps.

The 14mp pics (when they arrive, i dont know of any yet besides the 645 backs) I don't think will be comparable to medium format as far as cropping - despite what they claim - but if there is less noise in these digital pics there is room to trial a heavty crop it seems.

If you constrain yourself to cropping by only 1/2 of the total area, then a 12mp seems to be all you need, I suggest.
 
Hi,

While all these camera are very good , luminous-landscape is not up to their standards. I would look else were on the web for good non bias info.

Alex
George Chen said:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/14n-initial.shtml

I'll agree that the pictures from the 1ds look better overall, but
the 14n appears to have better dynamic range. I wonder how the S2
would compare...
Tariq said:
Key phrase here is "Considering the price..." Also note that the
Sensor is the same sensor as in the D60, tweaked a little. Most of
his review addresses either High ASA image output OR the very nice
10D body and its features. There are no side by side image
comparisons with a 1Ds, a S2 or even the D60 and he goes on to note
the most thorough review is here on Dpreview. What does PHil say
as far as image comparisons with the D60?

"There really is very little difference between the output of these
two cameras, the EOS-10D may have very slightly smoother
diagonals(less visible 45 degree jaggies) and just very slightly
better resolution(although hardly detectable). Dynamic range may be
slightly higher from the EOS-10D, it did managed to maintain some
'white detail' better than the EOS-D60. Overall however there is
very little to choose between these two cameras in
this comparison."

Taken from this page of PHils review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp

So, if you like the image quality of a D60, you will love the
10D...and most of us here believe the S2 produces better images
than the D60. Follow the logic.

Tariq
Tariq.com
George Chen said:
What do you think of this glowing review of the 10-D?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/10d.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Alex
LWS Photographic
 
Yeah, you gotta wonder if there was not a lense difference involved.
Does not make sense.
ajs2 said:
Alex
George Chen said:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/14n-initial.shtml

I'll agree that the pictures from the 1ds look better overall, but
the 14n appears to have better dynamic range. I wonder how the S2
would compare...
Tariq said:
Key phrase here is "Considering the price..." Also note that the
Sensor is the same sensor as in the D60, tweaked a little. Most of
his review addresses either High ASA image output OR the very nice
10D body and its features. There are no side by side image
comparisons with a 1Ds, a S2 or even the D60 and he goes on to note
the most thorough review is here on Dpreview. What does PHil say
as far as image comparisons with the D60?

"There really is very little difference between the output of these
two cameras, the EOS-10D may have very slightly smoother
diagonals(less visible 45 degree jaggies) and just very slightly
better resolution(although hardly detectable). Dynamic range may be
slightly higher from the EOS-10D, it did managed to maintain some
'white detail' better than the EOS-D60. Overall however there is
very little to choose between these two cameras in
this comparison."

Taken from this page of PHils review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp

So, if you like the image quality of a D60, you will love the
10D...and most of us here believe the S2 produces better images
than the D60. Follow the logic.

Tariq
Tariq.com
George Chen said:
What do you think of this glowing review of the 10-D?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/10d.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Alex
LWS Photographic
Click to expand...
 
I agree, also because the original pic is unavailable.

How do we know he has not accidently applied a gaussian blur to cropped shots.

If you cannot verify, why read it.
ajs2 said:
Alex
George Chen said:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/14n-initial.shtml

I'll agree that the pictures from the 1ds look better overall, but
the 14n appears to have better dynamic range. I wonder how the S2
would compare...
Tariq said:
Key phrase here is "Considering the price..." Also note that the
Sensor is the same sensor as in the D60, tweaked a little. Most of
his review addresses either High ASA image output OR the very nice
10D body and its features. There are no side by side image
comparisons with a 1Ds, a S2 or even the D60 and he goes on to note
the most thorough review is here on Dpreview. What does PHil say
as far as image comparisons with the D60?

"There really is very little difference between the output of these
two cameras, the EOS-10D may have very slightly smoother
diagonals(less visible 45 degree jaggies) and just very slightly
better resolution(although hardly detectable). Dynamic range may be
slightly higher from the EOS-10D, it did managed to maintain some
'white detail' better than the EOS-D60. Overall however there is
very little to choose between these two cameras in
this comparison."

Taken from this page of PHils review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page20.asp

So, if you like the image quality of a D60, you will love the
10D...and most of us here believe the S2 produces better images
than the D60. Follow the logic.

Tariq
Tariq.com
George Chen said:
What do you think of this glowing review of the 10-D?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/10d.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Alex
LWS Photographic
Click to expand...
 
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