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Sigma's no response to Emails

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Some of the magazines are "Pro" but a lot of them are consumer and Pro-sumer mags. Personally, when I started researching cameras I would never think to buy a computer magazine and would never expect a qualified review from such. I knew about the Foveon chip as soon as it was annouced a couple years ago and it just happened by chance that when I was ready to buy a camera and picked up a few Photo mags the Sigma was in one of them. Over the past few months it's been in every single one of the Photo mags at the store. Like I said for the most part they are getting great reviews and stating that it holds up against 6mp and even closer to 10mp cameras. I think they will generate enough business from the SD9 to go on and create a second generation with a new and improved Foveon chip.

Personally I don't care if other people buy the camera. It works great and I love the results much better than the blurred images from other cameras. If there was one reason I would want the SD9 to be popular it would be to get more aftermarket add-ons for it. :)
Dominic Groß said:
I already mentioned this in another thread, the people they reach
by advertising in Pro photo magazines are mainly the ones that are
not going to drop their nikon/canon gear and buy new lenses. Most
people I know that were on the edge of buying a digital SLR go for
Computer magzines and the best and biggest one here in Germany had
a quite bad review. And those people that are the ones that can
understand the more Computer orientated workflow of the SD9 and the
technical issues behind Bayer vs. Foveon. Their conclusions from
the test does not sound too bad, but some of their results are
awfull. I have seen no advertising in PC magazines and for Germany
I can say that I only saw ads in one Photo Magazine. To the fact
Geir rised, the Camera is availible from many shops here, but the
prices are mostly terrific.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
 
I agree with you on that one.

It is the quality of pics that caught my attention..:)

Foveon 4 eva :)
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
I already mentioned this in another thread, the people they reach
by advertising in Pro photo magazines are mainly the ones that are
not going to drop their nikon/canon gear and buy new lenses. Most
people I know that were on the edge of buying a digital SLR go for
Computer magzines and the best and biggest one here in Germany had
a quite bad review. And those people that are the ones that can
understand the more Computer orientated workflow of the SD9 and the
technical issues behind Bayer vs. Foveon. Their conclusions from
the test does not sound too bad, but some of their results are
awfull. I have seen no advertising in PC magazines and for Germany
I can say that I only saw ads in one Photo Magazine. To the fact
Geir rised, the Camera is availible from many shops here, but the
prices are mostly terrific.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
--
Sigma SD9
24-70EX
Olympus c4040z
http://kwietone0.tripod.com
 
Everything what I said was with the German market situation in mind. The Photomagazines here were never capable of delivering good Digital Camera reviews. They were to stuck in their old Photo stuff thats why people buy PC magazines instead (and yes the people from c't are normally very qualified in every aspect they cover and their digital Camera test were very good till this one of DSLRs last month). And I only saw ads in one of these magazines and none in the more important PC magazines. And I knew about the Foveon chip since I read an more technical article about it in the magazine Elektor over a year ago and I never heared of it in the German press again. The c't had a small sidenote on the SD9 in autumn as it was shown at photokina and than there was a review by Colorfoto (and some sigma ads in the same issue) and the review in the c't. This can't be called marketing imho.
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
I already mentioned this in another thread, the people they reach
by advertising in Pro photo magazines are mainly the ones that are
not going to drop their nikon/canon gear and buy new lenses. Most
people I know that were on the edge of buying a digital SLR go for
Computer magzines and the best and biggest one here in Germany had
a quite bad review. And those people that are the ones that can
understand the more Computer orientated workflow of the SD9 and the
technical issues behind Bayer vs. Foveon. Their conclusions from
the test does not sound too bad, but some of their results are
awfull. I have seen no advertising in PC magazines and for Germany
I can say that I only saw ads in one Photo Magazine. To the fact
Geir rised, the Camera is availible from many shops here, but the
prices are mostly terrific.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
--

Pictures taken with an old analog Sigma and scanned from Film: http://www.pbase.com/dgross
ICQ UIN: 289647506
 
Maybe Germany isn't one of their target markets for one reason or another. I would bet that they are targeting the U.S.A. first. Not that Europe isn't a perfect market for the camera but maybe there are reasons they are pushing harder here. Marketing is a very tricky bag based on numerous factors. So it could be any number of factors that are making them choose to push harder or stay away from certain markets.
Dominic Groß said:
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
I already mentioned this in another thread, the people they reach
by advertising in Pro photo magazines are mainly the ones that are
not going to drop their nikon/canon gear and buy new lenses. Most
people I know that were on the edge of buying a digital SLR go for
Computer magzines and the best and biggest one here in Germany had
a quite bad review. And those people that are the ones that can
understand the more Computer orientated workflow of the SD9 and the
technical issues behind Bayer vs. Foveon. Their conclusions from
the test does not sound too bad, but some of their results are
awfull. I have seen no advertising in PC magazines and for Germany
I can say that I only saw ads in one Photo Magazine. To the fact
Geir rised, the Camera is availible from many shops here, but the
prices are mostly terrific.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
--
Pictures taken with an old analog Sigma and scanned from Film:
http://www.pbase.com/dgross
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
 
In the meantime everybody and yes after cebit all the people that ever considered buying a digital Camera are freaking out because of the 10D...
Smart move by Sigma.... they loose a big market....
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
I already mentioned this in another thread, the people they reach
by advertising in Pro photo magazines are mainly the ones that are
not going to drop their nikon/canon gear and buy new lenses. Most
people I know that were on the edge of buying a digital SLR go for
Computer magzines and the best and biggest one here in Germany had
a quite bad review. And those people that are the ones that can
understand the more Computer orientated workflow of the SD9 and the
technical issues behind Bayer vs. Foveon. Their conclusions from
the test does not sound too bad, but some of their results are
awfull. I have seen no advertising in PC magazines and for Germany
I can say that I only saw ads in one Photo Magazine. To the fact
Geir rised, the Camera is availible from many shops here, but the
prices are mostly terrific.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
--
Pictures taken with an old analog Sigma and scanned from Film:
http://www.pbase.com/dgross
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
--

Pictures taken with an old analog Sigma and scanned from Film: http://www.pbase.com/dgross
ICQ UIN: 289647506
 
If there is one truism is the world of digital photography, it is that different markets are treated differently and respond differently to trends and products.

For example:

The Sony F707 [sic] still sells for over $1000 here in Switzerland.

Discount pricing in Europe is virtually non-existent compared to the United States. All Sigma lenses are sold at list or 10% less (massive discounting!?!) here in Switzerland. The same applies to virtually everything else photographic.

Specific to Sigma and the SD9, I see the following:

General information about the SD9 was relatively present at the time of introduction.

Specific information about the nature of the bear still has not filtered down to the sales staff level in stores except (as I gratefully discovered last week) a large chain of specialty photophaphy shops (greetings to Basel: I would like to know whether Eschenmoser in Basel is the same).

Things may change, but I have observed these market discrepencies for over twenty years now.

Another point of interest to me, at least. is that the European market is probably more real than the US for many people. Price is not the only factor we are interested in. Service is almost as important, at least here in Switzerland. The question is always where the pain point is located. 20% for service is OK by me. 100% surcharge (Sigma lenses) is too much.

Laurence
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
I already mentioned this in another thread, the people they reach
by advertising in Pro photo magazines are mainly the ones that are
not going to drop their nikon/canon gear and buy new lenses. Most
people I know that were on the edge of buying a digital SLR go for
Computer magzines and the best and biggest one here in Germany had
a quite bad review. And those people that are the ones that can
understand the more Computer orientated workflow of the SD9 and the
technical issues behind Bayer vs. Foveon. Their conclusions from
the test does not sound too bad, but some of their results are
awfull. I have seen no advertising in PC magazines and for Germany
I can say that I only saw ads in one Photo Magazine. To the fact
Geir rised, the Camera is availible from many shops here, but the
prices are mostly terrific.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
--
Pictures taken with an old analog Sigma and scanned from Film:
http://www.pbase.com/dgross
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/sd9_images
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_home
http://www.beachbriss.com (eternal test site)
 
Laurence

don't know the Eschenmoser very well, as I'm once in five years in there. Probably, they look all the same, allover.
Did'nt knew, that they have the SD9, anyway.

But I never buy a cam from a whatever store/shop staffsmember's advice. Nor directly in a internet-shop. Been testing myself the 3rd digicam now....
 
Here is my experience with Sigma. I dont have their camera but have a 105macro lens that had the diaphram stick on it. I sent them an email on a Saturday and the next Monday morning I had an email apologizing and telling me to send it in to their repair. I mailed it and in a couple days emailed to see if it had gotton there. For some reason the Post Office gave me some baloney about not being able to get a tracking number for the package. Anyway I immediately got an email that he would contact the repair about it and in about an hour I got a phone call from repair saying it was fixed and on its way home. Ive never had this great a service from any camera repair before. In fact most were a big fight to get it returned for repair.
--
http://www.pbase.com/galleries/sasc
 
Amongst retailers and most lense buyers, Sigma always had the reputation for appealing to the "entry level" buyers. Entry level is sort of a euphemistic way of saying "beginners" and "cheap". When Sigma came out with a digital camera, the camera (the SD-9) might have acquired the reputation of being entry level as well ....just by association with Sigma. It's just too bad that the most revolutionary design change in the brief history of digital cameras had to be introduced to the public via Sigma. The Foveon technology is quite sophisticated and is definitely a significant challenge to the old Bayer design if handled properly.
Geir R said:
Dominic Groß said:
No marketing at all, not too responsive here in Europe and not at
all in the USA (many people complained about unanwsered emails).
Sad story...
Click to expand...
You are touching a very important issue here Dominic. For example:
Doing a quick search today, not a single webshop in Norway has the
SD9 in their sortiment. The Canon 10D is already listed on 11
sites. That obviously tells something about the marketing strategy
of Sigma. It also tells something about the marked in general and
what considerations dealers are doing in order to have profitable
products in their sortiment.

The main question that any camera dealer will ask themself is: Will
it be profitable to introduce a new camera brand like Sigma in
their sortiment? If Canon, Nikon, Fuji etc currently provides
better business deals than they can get with Sigma, they will most
likely not introduce Sigma in their sortiment. Other considerations
are service and reliability of a certain product. If Sigma cannot
offer a good service (and return policy) that protects both the
dealer and end user economically in case of claims done by the end
users, the dealer will most likely not take the risc to have any
economical loss. We do not know the "return rate" of Sigma
products, but I suspect it is very high compared to most of the
more "reputable" brands like Canon, Nikon etc. This is about
quality control, which is clearly not so good with Sigma as we
could wish for. Dealers do not want to risc using too much time and
money on this unless they get some compensation. The same can be
said about most people that are considering investing a camera of
course. They generally don't want to risc having problems with
quality and potential loss of money when they invest in something
new.

Geir
Click to expand...
 
I'm waiting to see if another company picks up on the Foveon chip....regardless of how the SD-9 does. What bothers me about buying a Sigma(amongst other things), is that if the SD-9 doesn't do well, Sigma may pull out of digital cameras altogether. When that happens, their service department disappears too....just like Agfa experienced when they pulled out of the digital camera market.
Declan said:
This is a great argument to avoid the Sigma SD9. Lets hope the
next foveon chip come in a real camera body (Nikon/Canon).

Declan
Click to expand...
 
Sigma's already telling dealers they have to start dumping the SD-9. And it isn't because they're coming out with a new model.
whiteOrangedesign said:
Dominic Groß said:
I already mentioned this in another thread, the people they reach
by advertising in Pro photo magazines are mainly the ones that are
not going to drop their nikon/canon gear and buy new lenses. Most
people I know that were on the edge of buying a digital SLR go for
Computer magzines and the best and biggest one here in Germany had
a quite bad review. And those people that are the ones that can
understand the more Computer orientated workflow of the SD9 and the
technical issues behind Bayer vs. Foveon. Their conclusions from
the test does not sound too bad, but some of their results are
awfull. I have seen no advertising in PC magazines and for Germany
I can say that I only saw ads in one Photo Magazine. To the fact
Geir rised, the Camera is availible from many shops here, but the
prices are mostly terrific.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
 
Ken N said:
Sigma's already telling dealers they have to start dumping the
SD-9. And it isn't because they're coming out with a new model.
Click to expand...
What's your source for this info? And does that mean you'll be buying one soon since you anticipate a price drop? Or will you now opt for the Canon 10D, which I seem to recall you writing 'another challenger steps up, another challenger falls' or something to that effect.

I'm happy with the price I paid for my SD9, and I'm even more happy with the results I'm getting. All good stuff.
 
Exactly. It's easy to say "Oh, I heard ". Give us some sources. Just because some mail order camera place says it doesn't mean it's true either. They may be trying to push another camera instead. Regardless, I am happier than ever with my purchase and wouldn't trade it for those soft, wimpy Canon images any day.
--> LSN said:
Ken N said:
Sigma's already telling dealers they have to start dumping the
SD-9. And it isn't because they're coming out with a new model.
Click to expand...
What's your source for this info? And does that mean you'll be
buying one soon since you anticipate a price drop? Or will you now
opt for the Canon 10D, which I seem to recall you writing 'another
challenger steps up, another challenger falls' or something to that
effect.

I'm happy with the price I paid for my SD9, and I'm even more happy
with the results I'm getting. All good stuff.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
 
I emailed Sigma at 5:30 Eastern asking about availability of the new 80-400 EX OS lens.

I received a reply at 5:44pm both thanking me for my camera purchase and telling me the lens should be available in June.

Did you mail [email protected] ?? As someone else suggested, if you really needed an answer, you could always telephone them. Also, if I take the time to send a postal letter, I always get a reply.
 
So who's to judge the credibility of any source. Company owners don't know what's going on half the time. That's why there are so many business failures. CEO's work more by faith and self-deception than any other group I know. You can probably get a better and more accurate indication of how a product's going to do by talking to the man on the street. They're the product buyers, not the CEO's.

As far a "if" and "when" I'll purchase the SD-9, I still haven't made up my mind on that question. I may just wait it out and see if Sigma or anyone else comes out with a Foveon-based camera. I just don't feel comfortable being locked into Sigma and their first digital camera, but on the other hand......
whiteOrangedesign said:
--> LSN said:
Ken N said:
Sigma's already telling dealers they have to start dumping the
SD-9. And it isn't because they're coming out with a new model.
Click to expand...
What's your source for this info? And does that mean you'll be
buying one soon since you anticipate a price drop? Or will you now
opt for the Canon 10D, which I seem to recall you writing 'another
challenger steps up, another challenger falls' or something to that
effect.

I'm happy with the price I paid for my SD9, and I'm even more happy
with the results I'm getting. All good stuff.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
Click to expand...
 
For me I liked what I saw from it. I could care less if it's their first digital SLR. It's a great camera and the images sold me. Sure, it has shortcomings but they are easy enough to work around. There is no work around for the antialiasing that other cameras do to make their images "look better". The other thing is that I needed a camera now. Not months down the road. You will be waiting forever if you are always waiting on the next technology. I prefered to have the technology now. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one. Just telling you what sold it for me. Honestly I'm really happy with it. My friend has a D100 and another has a D60 and both prefer the images I'm getting from the SD9 to the ones they are getting from theirs.
--



http://www.whiteorangedesign.com/
 
Hi

I am interested in getting the OS lens but am kind of worried about the price. Would it be price around $500, similar to the 75-300 IS range?
--> LSN said:
I emailed Sigma at 5:30 Eastern asking about availability of the
new 80-400 EX OS lens.

I received a reply at 5:44pm both thanking me for my camera
purchase and telling me the lens should be available in June.

Did you mail [email protected] ?? As someone else suggested, if
you really needed an answer, you could always telephone them. Also,
if I take the time to send a postal letter, I always get a reply.
Click to expand...
 
I would buy a Nikon or Canon camera mount with a Foveon chip in a minute, but I think the problem is that the Big guys don't want to pay Foveon a royalty,and they also feel they have too much invested in the Bayer technology to back off. Secondly, they may have a point as to design. While the Foveon Technology is much closer, and superior to the Bayer design when compared to film technology, with layering etc., and it appears to offer greater accuracy and sharpness than Bayer; the human eye works more like Bayer, in that adjacent cones are receptive to different wavelengths (ie. colors), and so more closely approximates a Bayer chip in how it works. One could make an argument that nature's design may infact be superior to our layering ideas. I think that the increasing number of sensor sites is hoped to overcome the accuracy issues in current Bayer designed chips, and that the Big Boys, are going to stay with their current designs. Point of issue, is that the new Fuji chip while adding sensor sites, is going after increased density ranges before being concerned with color accuracies ala Foveon chip type design. So while the Foveon is probably superior to the Bayer, just like with Beta tapes vs. VHS , the best doesn't necessarily win the race. Economics play a big part in success.

Richard
Declan said:
This is a great argument to avoid the Sigma SD9. Lets hope the
next foveon chip come in a real camera body (Nikon/Canon).

Declan
Click to expand...
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan
 
A
Richard Katris wrote:
Until DVDs came around.............:Þ

. So while the Foveon is probably superior to the Bayer,
Richard Katris said:
just like with Beta tapes vs. VHS , the best doesn't necessarily
win the race. Economics play a big part in success.

Richard
Declan said:
This is a great argument to avoid the Sigma SD9. Lets hope the
next foveon chip come in a real camera body (Nikon/Canon).

Declan
Click to expand...
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan
Click to expand...
--
Sigma SD9
24-70EX
Olympus c4040z
http://kwietone0.tripod.com
 
i mean... Until DVDs came around.. sorry bout that last post.... :Þ

So while the Foveon is probably superior to the Bayer,
Richard Katris said:
just like with Beta tapes vs. VHS , the best doesn't necessarily
win the race. Economics play a big part in success.

Richard
Declan said:
This is a great argument to avoid the Sigma SD9. Lets hope the
next foveon chip come in a real camera body (Nikon/Canon).

Declan
Click to expand...
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan
Click to expand...
--
Sigma SD9
24-70EX
Olympus c4040z
http://kwietone0.tripod.com
 
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