Why is Phil stealing my time?

TangoMan · Apr 15, 2003

Ok, he's not. " I " chose to come here and spend hours reading the posts.

However, why do I have to wait 1 to 15 sec (and sometimes longer) just to get from one reply to the next? I must be loosing about 50% of my forum time, just waiting for the text to appear before my eyes.

The way we know it, we click on a thread and then:
1. text appears, we read it: TIME = 5 to 100 seconds

2. we clik "next" or scroll down to see the meaningless titles and click the next one anyway (how can you chose what to read when all you can see is "Re: the same unrelated original title") TIME = 1 to 2 seconds

3. we wait for the darned page to appear. Don't get me wrong, I have a DSL internet access, its the dpreview's servers we wait for. TIME = 1 to 15 seconds (most of the time)

4. we scroll through the text lazy posters have left in their post: TIME = 1 to 2 seconds.
5. the proper post appears. we read it and start over from step 2.

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!

Can we have a one click post all of the thread, all replies and no repeated text? Please?

I have a dream: someday, we will all look a twice the number of front focused cats!!! in half the time we take today!

Tango Man

Jim-H · Apr 15, 2003

Although DPR is probably my most visited site over the past few months. It is also the slowest. And I'm on the web all day.

TangoMan said:
Ok, he's not. " I " chose to come here and spend hours reading the
posts.
However, why do I have to wait 1 to 15 sec (and sometimes longer)
just to get from one reply to the next? I must be loosing about
50% of my forum time, just waiting for the text to appear before
my eyes.

The way we know it, we click on a thread and then:
1. text appears, we read it: TIME = 5 to 100 seconds
2. we clik "next" or scroll down to see the meaningless titles and
click the next one anyway (how can you chose what to read when all
you can see is "Re: the same unrelated original title") TIME = 1
to 2 seconds
3. we wait for the darned page to appear. Don't get me wrong, I
have a DSL internet access, its the dpreview's servers we wait for.
TIME = 1 to 15 seconds (most of the time)
4. we scroll through the text lazy posters have left in their post:
TIME = 1 to 2 seconds.
5. the proper post appears. we read it and start over from step 2.

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!

Can we have a one click post all of the thread, all replies and no
repeated text? Please?
I have a dream: someday, we will all look a twice the number of
front focused cats!!! in half the time we take today!

Tango Man

--
Jim

'cause life is a lesson – you learn it when you’re through' - LB

Rob Martin · Apr 15, 2003

there have been instances where the forum is groaning and moaning in North America and for some reason it's speedy in Europe and Asia. Latency in the network, reswitching because of router issues etc. are all factors.

Is it the servers? I am in New Zealand today and the response is fine. It's typically perfect in Bangkok as well.......

--
------------------------------

if you take the time to do something urgent, make sure it is important .............................

Gary Cacace · Apr 15, 2003

How much have you paid for this service? Ummm...nothing? I guess it's easy to criticize when you're not footing the bills. Yes, it would be nice to have lightning fast response and different forum software, but let's keep in mind that this is a free service.

:-/

--Gary

EddyG · Apr 15, 2003

TangoMan said:
Can we have a one click post all of the thread, all replies and no
repeated text? Please?

Oh how I would LOVE these changes.

I think NOT including the previous message should be the default. The user should have to click a JavaScript-enabled button that would quote the original message if they want to include it.

I think quoted messages that include images should automatically have the ";" appended to any image links so they don't automatically inline in the quoted portions.

And we desperately need a way to read an entire thread all at once! This one-message-at-a-time stuff reminds me of the days of 1200 baud modems and BBS's! Almost every other forum software out there shows the entire thread when you click on a subject.

But it will never happen, because with the current setup, Phil gets that many more "advertising hits" per thread. Instead of one hit to see 25 replies, he now gets 25 hits to see 25 replies...

smoody · Apr 15, 2003

well, i think your proposal would make the site slooooow. you'd have to add up all the delays you're talking about plus all the time required to load all the images in the threads before you could make sense of everything. then you'd be waiting 1 to 3 minutes just to get the text up when, in fact, you wouldn't have checked out all the threads in real life in many cases.

it would also require phil's database server to work much harder than it does now which would result in even longer waiting times.

here's my counter proposal: everyone who feels that they're not happy with the performance should get together and get Phil and upgraded server. i'm sure phil wouldn't mind...

- - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - SMoody

http://www.pbase.com/smoody
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Brent Watkins85244 · Apr 15, 2003

I believe the original point of the post (and I could be wrong) is that it would be very nice to be able to view the posts & comments in a "flattened" versus a "threaded" format.

I to would much prefer to view the Bulletin Board flattened and simply scroll down the page to read the entire thread. Big time saver in my opinion.

I would be a more regular poster and participant if that were the case. As it is, it’s often not worth the wait in my mediocre phone lines at my home in the country. During the day at my studio I have DSL – but I also have more important things to do.

Suffice to say that if the bulletin board software that Phil uses supports flattened threads, I would also prefer to view the forums that way.

My 2¢

Brent

Don Lashier · Apr 15, 2003

smoody said:
it would also require phil's database server to work much harder
than it does now which would result in even longer waiting times.

Actually there are tradeoffs but (having programmed database driven websites myself) overall I believe the servers would be more responsive simply because the number of database queries would be greatly reduced. Every time you view a post the query must be repeated and although they're probably cached (the reason why you see a 2 or 3 minute delay in seeing new posts) there still would be an order of magnitude reduction.

OTOH Phil would also see an order of magnitude reduction in page views and this could adversely affect ad revenue

DL

TangoMan · Apr 15, 2003

Brent Watkins said:
I believe the original point of the post (and I could be wrong) is
that it would be very nice to be able to view the posts & comments
in a "flattened" versus a "threaded" format.

Exactly my point. Why do it slow when there's a way to be efficient?

And to all posters, spare us the previously read text that's not essential to the understanding of your post.

--

The best propaganda is not obvious to its people. But, try as it can, it can't fool the foreigners. And the propaganded will soon call the foreigners anti- for simply asking them to think about their automatic thoughts.

Rob Martin · Apr 15, 2003

a "flattened" forum is an option. What will happen then (as it does on Miranda's and Galbraiths) is that the thread will then be put into pages. This means chopping through pages rather than threads.

There are pluses(+'s) and minuses (-'s) for both approaches.

Certainly in this forum you can quickly get the gist of what's happening and where the activity is within a thread. In a flattened thread all replies are assumed sequential and some of the "intent" can be lost.

$0.02 c

--
------------------------------

if you take the time to do something urgent, make sure it is important ............................

TangoMan · Apr 15, 2003

Rob Martin said:
What will happen then is that the thread will then be put
into pages. This means chopping through pages rather than threads.

In a flattened thread all replies are assumed sequential and some of the "intent" can be lost.

It doesn't have to be plain text, it can be html and dynamically updated. When there's a will (to improve), there'a a way.

--

The best propaganda is not obvious to its people. But, try as it can, it can't fool the foreigners. And the propaganded will soon call the foreigners anti- for simply asking them to think about their automatic thoughts.

Hank53935 · Apr 15, 2003

It's unrelated to photography but the format of the BB is great.

http://www.reefaquariumguide.com

All the replies are just listed from the beginning and there's an option to click on 'read new' for each topic.

Hank

TangoMan said:
Ok, he's not. " I " chose to come here and spend hours reading the
posts.
However, why do I have to wait 1 to 15 sec (and sometimes longer)
just to get from one reply to the next? I must be loosing about
50% of my forum time, just waiting for the text to appear before
my eyes.

The way we know it, we click on a thread and then:
1. text appears, we read it: TIME = 5 to 100 seconds
2. we clik "next" or scroll down to see the meaningless titles and
click the next one anyway (how can you chose what to read when all
you can see is "Re: the same unrelated original title") TIME = 1
to 2 seconds
3. we wait for the darned page to appear. Don't get me wrong, I
have a DSL internet access, its the dpreview's servers we wait for.
TIME = 1 to 15 seconds (most of the time)
4. we scroll through the text lazy posters have left in their post:
TIME = 1 to 2 seconds.
5. the proper post appears. we read it and start over from step 2.

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!

Can we have a one click post all of the thread, all replies and no
repeated text? Please?
I have a dream: someday, we will all look a twice the number of
front focused cats!!! in half the time we take today!

Tango Man

--
http://www.pbase.com/lumbardh

There's only two things you really need to fix anything, Duct Tape and WD-40. If it's supposed to move and it doesn't, use WD-40. If it moves and it's not supposed to, use Duct Tape.

TangoMan · Apr 15, 2003

How much does Phil pay for R&D?

I offer the results of the -How Can I Improve My Website And Make More Money From It- study, for FREE!

That's valuable

--

The best propaganda is not obvious to its people. But, try as it can, it can't fool the foreigners. And the propaganded will soon call the foreigners anti- for simply asking them to think about their automatic thoughts.

Herbert Wm. Rice · Apr 15, 2003

TangoMan said:
However, why do I have to wait 1 to 15 sec (and sometimes longer)

You don't have to wait, just surf smarter.

When you have finished reading a post, you have a list of replies to choose from. Right-click the next one you wish to read, and open in new tab/window.

Go back to the first tab/window and pick the next one down the list (after the one you just alter-opened).

In each tab you click on the one after the next unread, alternating your way down the thread.

Then, as you are reading one, another is finishing its dowload.

You now have almost no wait time, as going back and forth between tabs takes almost no time.

Enjoy,
Herb.

TangoMan · Apr 15, 2003

Herbert Wm. Rice said:
You don't have to wait, just surf smarter.

I sometimes have up to 4 dpreview windows waiting for the server to feed them. It's also harder to keep track of who's next. Not a real way to improve things. I want to be able to scan a message in 1 second and read the next one as soon as I decide what I'm reading is not helpfull.

--

The best propaganda is not obvious to its people. But, try as it can, it can't fool the foreigners. And the propaganded will soon call the foreigners anti- for simply asking them to think about their automatic thoughts.

EddyG · Apr 15, 2003

Hank53935 said:
It's unrelated to photography but the format of the BB is great.
...
All the replies are just listed from the beginning and there's an
option to click on 'read new' for each topic.

It's called vBulletin ( http://www.vbulletin.com/ ) and there are many free alternatives that are just as good if not better, such as phpBB ( http://www.phpbb.com/ ). And I agree, forum software that follows that "model" is much more intuitive and nicer to use. Plus you can do stuff like mark-up your posts with bold, italic, etc., set user preferences, send private messages, etc.

You'll never see anything like it on dpreview though, unfortunately.

Jim-H · Apr 15, 2003

Actually it would make it faster, not slower.

smoody said:
well, i think your proposal would make the site slooooow. you'd
have to add up all the delays you're talking about plus all the
time required to load all the images in the threads before you
could make sense of everything. then you'd be waiting 1 to 3
minutes just to get the text up when, in fact, you wouldn't have
checked out all the threads in real life in many cases.

it would also require phil's database server to work much harder
than it does now which would result in even longer waiting times.

here's my counter proposal: everyone who feels that they're not
happy with the performance should get together and get Phil and
upgraded server. i'm sure phil wouldn't mind...

-- - - - - - - - - - - - SMoody

http://www.pbase.com/smoody
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

--
Jim

'cause life is a lesson – you learn it when you’re through' - LB

Nicholas J · Apr 15, 2003

This is a free site you know. Why dont you pay Phil some money and maybe he'll be able to put it on a faster server you ungrateful cow !

I think the value of free information we get here is worth waiting a few seconds for.....

TangoMan said:
Ok, he's not. " I " chose to come here and spend hours reading the
posts.
However, why do I have to wait 1 to 15 sec (and sometimes longer)
just to get from one reply to the next? I must be loosing about
50% of my forum time, just waiting for the text to appear before
my eyes.

The way we know it, we click on a thread and then:
1. text appears, we read it: TIME = 5 to 100 seconds
2. we clik "next" or scroll down to see the meaningless titles and
click the next one anyway (how can you chose what to read when all
you can see is "Re: the same unrelated original title") TIME = 1
to 2 seconds
3. we wait for the darned page to appear. Don't get me wrong, I
have a DSL internet access, its the dpreview's servers we wait for.
TIME = 1 to 15 seconds (most of the time)
4. we scroll through the text lazy posters have left in their post:
TIME = 1 to 2 seconds.
5. the proper post appears. we read it and start over from step 2.

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!

Can we have a one click post all of the thread, all replies and no
repeated text? Please?
I have a dream: someday, we will all look a twice the number of
front focused cats!!! in half the time we take today!

Tango Man

--
Nicholas J
http://www.pbase.com/nhanekom

smoody · Apr 15, 2003

it might be faster, it might not. there are several reasons it might slow down page views including, but not limited to maxing out his tcp/ip bandwidth would would impact the ability to communicate with the database (if he's using a remote server) and the ability to pump html out via his http server.

but i do agree, the reduced page views would have a negative impact on his income throughput, so it is certainly a bad idea!

i think techies are seen as programmers with too much money on this forum and i don't think they're taken as seriously, so i'm taking a chance by getting all technical and stuff. ;-)

- - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - SMoody

http://www.pbase.com/smoody
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

John Kim · Apr 15, 2003

TangoMan said:
Ok, he's not. " I " chose to come here and spend hours reading the
posts.
However, why do I have to wait 1 to 15 sec (and sometimes longer)
just to get from one reply to the next? I must be loosing about
50% of my forum time, just waiting for the text to appear before
my eyes.

Bring up the list of followups. Hold down ctrl and shift, and left click each followup. That'll open up each followup in a separate tab. Then you can read and all the other followups will load while you're reading. Not as good as if the board were floattened, but it saves time.

If you think this is bad, you don't want to know about Usenet back before there were threaded news readers (posts were sorted by time received, not subject or time posted). Course there was no spam back then too so I guess it kinda evens out...

Why is Phil stealing my time?

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