How did she take this picture?!?

Graham,
but good luck getting 5fps at 1/60th or 1/30th! Sorry but I had to do it!!

I agree 100% though. why not nail it in camera so you have the perfect print. I am a purist that way where what I shoot is what I print. Now with digital in PS I change Brightness contrast, curves, and color balance, but I don't edit whats in the picture. This is my style, and Graham, I feel this is what you are talking about too. Some people strive to get it right in camera, some people use photoshop. Both ways work, and it's just which style you perfer. I strive to get the shot right in camera because I like the challenge of figuring out how to get what I am picturing in my head to come out of the camera. And BTW I am pretty good with photoshop and can edit my images there, but I like to try to get it right in camera anyway.

Ben Jacobsen

No one is good all the time... People devise systems and good habits. Most action photographers shoot prolifically. I’ll bet this is one very good shot for hundreds of lesser shots. The trick is not letting anyone see the mediocre stuff.

Scotty B said:

I'm not doubting your opinion, and that could be....

but....

....if you've looked at her other work, you'll find she's that good
all the time!

--
scott b.
http://www.billwagnerphoto.com
D100,D1h,D30,10D,CP995

Click to expand...

Graham Snook said:

Chris Dodkin said:

Graham,

firstly it takes a few minutes, not 30 minutes in Photoshop

Click to expand...

I stand corrected, sorry. But you still have to manipulate the
image in photoshop, it still takes time, more time than it would
doing it on the water.

Graham Snook said:

Secondly, you can't tell if the shot is ok on the back of the camera.

Click to expand...

Don't you trust yourself? I do it on film, I don't "know" I have
got the shot until I pick the films up from the lab, you have more
that 36 exp on your card, I'll typically shoot 10 - 15 frames, more
if the water is rougher, by the end of those frames I'll have
nailed the pic...I can be pretty certain,

Graham Snook said:

If you shoot slow shutter speeds, to get the speed blur, ther is no
way that the small image on the back of the camera can tell you if
you got it right!

Click to expand...

Even if I have digital, I wouldn't have time to check my images, I
trust my equipment and my experience.

Graham Snook said:

So, to guarantee the shot.....I mean you leave the event knowing
it's sharp...you shoot higher shutter sppeds, and use photoshop
later....

fact of life!

Click to expand...

Not the fact of my life...I shoot it with a fast shutter speed, yes
but that's to give our designer variety, not so he can play around
with my images...I'll also shoot it slow....you don't see all the
guys who shoot for car mags bluring every shot used in a mag, so
why should us photographers on the water be different? you can't
guarantee anything in photography, the lab could ruin a film, your
CF card could die...these things happen

I'm not saying that it can't be done in photoshop, it can. I'm sure
you have the skills needed to work magic on a computer. However it
appears to be a pointless exercise when it can be done easily in
camera...adjust the exposure from 1/500th F8 to 1/60th F22 or
1/30th if I'm using velvia, point, focus and fire away at 5 frames
a second, job's done...it takes as long to do and it does to read
this last paragraph.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I shoot on 35mm Canon and 6x7 Pentax
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

Click to expand...

--
http://www.1D-images.com
[email protected]
Mac G4/iMac/iBook/iPod

I'm sorry to say I'm not living in the past, I'm living in a commercial environment, time is money and all that...I don't have the time of the desire to go through my photographs putting special effects on them when I can do it easily and faster in my camera...that's not living in the past, that's using my skills as a photographer to create images for magazines

Photography is not my hobby, it's my life, it's pays the bills...I love it with a passion and I find it a great way of expressing my self and the love of the subject and environment I photograph

I'd rather be shooting on the sunny shores of an exotic island than sat behind a computer retouching photographs...wouldn't you?

Where is the challenge in doing something in photoshop? Something goes wrong, press the Undo button do it again, life isn't like that....go on live a little, do something risky with you photography, you never know it might make your day
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I shoot on 35mm Canon and 6x7 Pentax
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

Why? Because we strive to get it right in camera and to perfect our photgraphy skills along with our photoshop abilities. It's one thing to use PS to save something you missed, but I try to get it right in the camera. There is nothing about living in the past about this except for a lot of people these days are too lazy to learn how to do things right, and use PS to save everything. As a photographer I am always learning and trying to learn my camera so I can use my tool better for better results. Nothing in the past about learning!
Ben

Not at all. Graham is using his photographic skill to do the work right the first time.

I dont see how you are living in the past if you actually have the skill to do it in camera.

Duncan

Chris Dodkin said:

Graham Snook said:

Chris Dodkin said:

Graham,

firstly it takes a few minutes, not 30 minutes in Photoshop

Click to expand...

I stand corrected, sorry. But you still have to manipulate the
image in photoshop, it still takes time, more time than it would
doing it on the water.

Member said:

Secondly, you can't tell if the shot is ok on the back of the camera.

Click to expand...

Don't you trust yourself? I do it on film, I don't "know" I have
got the shot until I pick the films up from the lab, you have more
that 36 exp on your card, I'll typically shoot 10 - 15 frames, more
if the water is rougher, by the end of those frames I'll have
nailed the pic...I can be pretty certain,

Member said:

If you shoot slow shutter speeds, to get the speed blur, ther is no
way that the small image on the back of the camera can tell you if
you got it right!

Click to expand...

Even if I have digital, I wouldn't have time to check my images, I
trust my equipment and my experience.

Member said:

So, to guarantee the shot.....I mean you leave the event knowing
it's sharp...you shoot higher shutter sppeds, and use photoshop
later....

fact of life!

Click to expand...

Not the fact of my life...I shoot it with a fast shutter speed, yes
but that's to give our designer variety, not so he can play around
with my images...I'll also shoot it slow....you don't see all the
guys who shoot for car mags bluring every shot used in a mag, so
why should us photographers on the water be different? you can't
guarantee anything in photography, the lab could ruin a film, your
CF card could die...these things happen

I'm not saying that it can't be done in photoshop, it can. I'm sure
you have the skills needed to work magic on a computer. However it
appears to be a pointless exercise when it can be done easily in
camera...adjust the exposure from 1/500th F8 to 1/60th F22 or
1/30th if I'm using velvia, point, focus and fire away at 5 frames
a second, job's done...it takes as long to do and it does to read
this last paragraph.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I shoot on 35mm Canon and 6x7 Pentax
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

Click to expand...

--
http://www.1D-images.com
[email protected]
Mac G4/iMac/iBook/iPod

Click to expand...

....it's not a hobby for me either!

When I'm in the press room, there are only 2 guys left out of maybe 40 photographers, that still use film.

Everyone else is digital, and has headed that way over the last 2 years as the D30, D60 and 1D arrived from Canon.

There are a few Nikon guys with D1/D100, but not that many.

Having made the switch to digital, you should take full advantage of the new technology, and not just treat it as 'a film camera with no film'.

So, with everything in the digital domain, I can choose my images, process them in Photoshop, and FTP them to the picture desk, all between races.

I can guarantee that I have the action shot that happens in a split second in front of me, because I have the camera set to a suitable shutter speed and apperture to freeze the action and give me good DOF.

I may only get one chance to get the shot, and even with my 1D and it's 8-12 FPS drive, I can't be thinking....oh, here comes a car with it's wheel missing, doing 150 mph straight towards me...I think I'll select a nice slow shutter speed and hope I get the action right as I pan with the shot....

It's just not realistic.

So, I shoot it sharp and fast, and then have a great base image to do with as I please later.

AND, if I'm shooting practice laps, I sometimes choose slow shutter speeds and pan with the action, because there's no actual racing action going on, and I'm not going to 'miss that shot' whilst my camera is set for speed blur.

Assuming that your way is the 'only way' to shoot, and thinking that doing it all in camera is somehow better, is just so stone-age in the environment where I earn a living.

Get the shot sharp first, then you can do what ever you like...

And my time is not an issue here.

The time I save in not having my pictures processed, not having to check contact sheets or using a loupe to inspect them, far out weighs the time I might put in to working on selected images in Photoshop.

And I'm not wasting film, chemicals and money, shooting a film worth of frames, just to hope I get one shot right.

My pictures are at the picture desk before I leave the track, so my job is done, and I'm not wasting any time in Photoshop what so ever.

Maybe it's just that you haven't experienced this yet in your field........

--
http://www.1D-images.com
[email protected]
Mac G4/iMac/iBook/iPod

I may only get one shot of a car as it crashes on a race track.

I can't afford not to have it sharp, focused, with good DOF.

I need to get the shot in the camera NOW, I don't get a second chance.

I am using the digital technology to assist me, complementing my skills as a photographer, and gaining benefit from the things digital brings to my work flow.

I am not compensating for any lack of skill what so ever.

I'm simply making sure I have that shot, 1st time.

Chris.

--
http://www.1D-images.com
[email protected]
Mac G4/iMac/iBook/iPod

Due to the overwheming detail in the reply from Chris, I'm not sure whether it's because or my desire to get things right the first time in camera or because I still use that stuff that's called film?!?!?!

I don't want to feel a photographic leper because I'm using photographic techniques as opposed to computer ones, and using silver halide rather than pixels!

This is discrimination! :-D
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I shoot on 35mm Canon and 6x7 Pentax
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

M5Laser said:

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?userid=sailing&gallery_id=9243&image_id=3

This looks like a hard picture to take! Everything is in focus,
with the exception of the spray. I would think that it would be
very hard to keep the camera steady enough to get such clarity. Any
idea what kind of shutter speed was being used? How about the DOF?

Just for personal interest, the photo was taken by a Canadian
photographer, Sharon Green – one of (if not the most) famous
sailing photographers in the world. As far as the photography
world is concerned, she is my idol.

Oh by the way, she was using a Canon EOS camera with L glass

Duncan

Click to expand...

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
+++ Full frame rules +++

Waldemar
http://www.pbase.com/haak
http://www.photo-haak.com
http://www.images-of-tuscany.com

His best bet is 'I can be pretty certain', they are his words not mine!

That's what I'm saying....digital allows me to be certain, not just pretty certain, so I use the technology to assist my work.

It's not the same for all subjects, but in critical moving situations, motorsports for me, or yacht racing for others, it's a method that guarantees results.

Chris.
--
http://www.1D-images.com
[email protected]
Mac G4/iMac/iBook/iPod

That claifies it a bit

The majority of shoots I do are set up, i.e. me on one boat and the other boat I'm photographing, it usually takes 1 - 2 hours to do all the photography, during that time the test boat and photo boat perform all sort of close quarters running just to get the photographs I'm required to get

It's not the same type of work that you do, where you need to get that shot...conversly the work you do is not the same as mine, because I'm not working under the same constraints I can do slow shutter speed stuff as part of the shoot....if the two boats are running side by side it takes only moments to change the settings on the camera where as to come back and manipulate the photographs would take longer...I wasn't disputing that fact that you can do it in photoshop, I was disputing the motives, however see that we work in different fields I think we;ve cleared that up

I agree that I'm living on borrowed time on film, but that wasn't in discussion and a sweeping statement like 'living in the past" with no explanation when we were debating techniques got me jumping up and down like kid on a bouncy castle

but I'm alright I've calmed down now :-D

G
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I shoot on 35mm Canon and 6x7 Pentax
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

For a picture like this though you have time to take a few shots and get it right. With a crash, sailing, motorsports, or other, you would want a high speed exposure to freeze something and then change it later for an effect if needed. What we are talking about here is for an artistic fun panning shot do you do it in camera or in the CPU. As a photographer I would shoot some high speed exposure so I could photoshop it also, but I would also play in camera to try to get it right there. In a once in a lifetime shot you are right, you can't experement and that's not what I am recommending. For something like this where you can experiment, why not learn? This way you could also, if lucky, get the shot right in camera, and have a frozen one to play with in photoshop to compare digital blur to the real deal. Sharon Definately doesn't shoot everything with blur, but for a shot like this it works out wonderfully.

Graham Snook said:

I know it's hard as hell to get anything

Click to expand...

You got that right. Fortunately I somewhat expected that and had a laptop to download to everynight. I took 450 underwater to get 50-100 decent ones.

She has several shots of aussie 18s and I14s and 49ers all with the same style. Some sharper than others. The example in this post is a sharper one. That would lead me to beleive that she does it in camera. The new team one catalog came in the mail on Saturday and it has a very nice picture of Sharon with an igloo cooler filled with Canon gear. If you want to see this picture you can order a catalog here:

http://www.team1newport.com

From her site about photographing the cup:

"four Canon 35mm cameras, one Kodak digital 520 camera, six lenses, two extenders, doublers, tripods and 1000 rolls of film, whose 36,000 total frames were dwarfed by the number of digital photos shot."

A shot from her site of Sharon:

What most people here are missing (incluidng the "sailing pros") is that the spray will move no more or less in the direction of travel of the boat than the rest of the water around the boat. Sray moves away from the boat only a little. The boat would have to be going very fast to push spray away any distance and then the most movement would be to the side of the boat, not to the rear ("aft" for the pros). There is no prop (screw) to push any water back (aft). Even if there were, it would be minimal. Shoot your own pics of wake and make up your own minds.

And you will see spray going in directions you have never imagined. Also go order he calandar and you will see there is a shot like that in every year, and the boat IS NOT SHARP. In the 11x15 print in the calandar it is soft too. Exellent shot and not PSed. Study her work and you will realize this.
Ben